I made a similar post week but it disappeared into the ether.

I’ve got this idea of building a flat barred gravel bike around a sondor Camino frameset (I know there’s no stock). I current have one of the original GT grades which is upgraded about as much as you can but has limited tyre clearance so I run it with 32mm rocket Ron’s to differentiate it from my other bikes. I also have a ridged mountain bike based around an original kinesis virsa currently it’s in mountain bike mode with previously it’s been more like a flat barred gravel bike with 42mm 650b tyres.

I like the flat barred option as it gives better control for me off road and I tend to ride at the MTB end of gravel also access to a wider range of gears, though @rocketdogs tips on wide range cassettes and grx open up options with my current set up. I never use the drops anyhow on my drop barred bike. I could add bar ends and maybe mini tri bars to give more hand positions.

I definitely want something that’s closer to road bike than a ridged mountain bike my wife has had Dr Dew and a Boardman pro hybrid (which is a great bike. ) and I picture some similar with better tyre clearance but could also take a road wheels. I’ve done a few ridged mountain bikes with road wheels and they’ve never felt right to me. That rules out something like a rigid on-one whippet.

I would probably just need a frameset and bolt through 650b wheels to get started and build it up with bits I’ve got on my kinesis. If I like it I can replace everything thing with better bits, if I don’t I can sell the frame there’s always demand and build up a drop barred version with a smaller frame using the same wheelset and the grx/ultregra stuff on my grade.

This is a very long way of asking how much bigger should I get the frame to have a ridged versus a drop bar and am I missing other options. My grade is about 9kg which isn’t bad for a alu gravel bike with wouldn’t want go much heavier.

Once I get it right I may even swap for a ti frame but I’d need convincing of the benefit vs the extra 1k.

i have a flat bar gravel bike, use it for the weekly gravel rides, bike packing holidays and gravel sportives. i built it using a 26′ titanium frame, 700 wheels and parts off an old full sus. it rides brilliant. the only downside is that it isn’t as cool as flared dropbars, and my mates slag me riding a hybrid !

i’d reply they are riding drop-bared hybrids isnt that what gravel bars are ?

I’ve got a Marin DSX1 drop bar gravel bike. Not managed too much off road on it, but the stuff that I have, it feels very ‘mtb like’.

Fairly fast on road too…..I’m only about 1000km in to my return to cycling from an almost 6 year lay off….averaging 16mph on my 10 mile commute on it with slicks on.

I’ve stuck bar ends on, and am running 1-11 with a 11-42 cassette on road. When my new Hunt wheels arrive, I’ll have an 11-46 for offroad stuff. 42t Chainring.

Same size frame, longer stem to make up for the shorter top tube. Vice versa when drop baring an MTB

Agree. I ride a road geometry frame and switch between flat, riser, drops and do it all on the same stem but would be a bit better with a slightly longer stem for flat/riser bars.

I have pretty much set on flat bars now though as I just prefer the feel of them, especially off road, but do miss the drops a bit in headwinds.

I happen to have another GT grade. I converted to flat barred for my daughter so it has a shorter stem, I have a 20mm longer stem than the stock GT grade stem (120 vs 100mm) in the spares box I’ll stick in on a see how it rides. I still thinking a longer frame and the same size stem would be better handling or the difference between a large and medium is 20mm and it has a slightly longer effective tt (6mm) than the grade.

I’ll try it and see.

I used my grade for ironman and I’ve averaged over 18mph over 100 miles on it on training so I know you can go fast enough on a gravel bike but I happy to sacrifice some of that speed for comfort and control without going to a mountain bike.

Here are the crazy bars on my current flat barred bike, they’ve just been destroyed in a crash I’m not sure I’ll use the loop bar on the new bike, the ski bar ends were free from the LBS there at the same position as the hoods on my grade.

I changed the 100mm stem on my Croix de Fer to a 120mm and put on flat carbon bars with stubby bar ends and I love it. I’m sure some people would be faster on the road with drops, but I could hardly reach the drops anyway with my T-Rex arms. It gets ridden mainly on the road, but when offroad, the control with flat bars is much better. The carbon bars help to take the sting out of the rough stuff, too. It’s also noticeable how some roadies completely ignore me ….

Hybrid 😁😬😉😆

I love a good hybrid those two bike my wife had were cracking, the Dr Dew was essentially a flat barred gravel bike before gravel bikes were a thing.

I like the flat barred option as it gives better control for me off road and I tend to ride at the MTB end of gravel

^^ That describes my take on ‘gravel’. I simply didn’t ever get on with drops and have been flat-barring and gravelifying bikes BG (Before Gravel). Several Roadrats and increasingly running into clearance issues (self-inflicted – always trying to squeeze wider tyres on) I changed to a Titus Mutsu: a photocopy of Sonder’s Broken Road. I accept I lose some efficiency compared to a ‘proper’ gravel bike on the faster stuff, but I favour the control on the MTBy stuff my Super Hybrid gives. Possibly too close to the rigid MTB end of the scale you mention, but geometry is more old-skool than modern-LLS so might work for you. Thought it worth mentioning as you’re already looking at Sonder.

https://tinyurl.com/j6esuhev

I’ve just gone the other way – old skool MTB (a Cotic Soda) with 650b wheels, rigid fork, flat bars and inboard bar ends to a Genesis Fugio.

The big differences are the much lower BB of the Fugio makes it SO much more stable (and therefore grippy) in corners and the full carbon fork, combined with the different wrist position in the drops is massively more comfortable over rough stuff, compared to the Exotic carbon fork on the Soda. It’s still definitely rigid, but its nowhere near as jarring and I can feel the fork deflecting as I hit stuff. The big downside is that its not nearly as chuckable in tight stuff (and mid range steel is definitely heavier than Ti!).

I’ve got the Fugio set up so that I’m comfortable descending in the drops, which currently means the hoods/flats are a bit higher than I’d like, but I’m going to play with bar shape to try and tweak that a bit.

Neither option is perfect, but I’m surprised what I can chuck the Fugio down that I’d have been a bit wary about on the Soda. Steep uphill – the Soda edges it as the position was more aggressive. I think there’s sod all difference on the road