Hi,

I have an 110mm travel orange segment- its great.

It bottoms out most rides despite being far from plush at 265psi with a fox dps shock filled with the largest volume spacer.

I fancy some enduro races this year and next year, and I would like a bit more suspension travel for these.
I could up the travel by buying a 135mm stage 5 or 150mm stage 6 frame. As these are both ~£2000 with a fancy shock I would rather change the shock on the segment.

Its currently a 165x38mm shock

Measuring carefully the longest shock eye to eye that would fit is 173mm, and the furthest it could compress is 48mm.

I was hoping to fit a 184x44mm shock with a pair of offset bushings(-6mm to the shock length). That would give 178×44, which would compress the shock by 5mm and give 178x39mm which is probably not worth bothering with.

Could I get a bit of metal made to attach to the the frame shock mount and give the extra space for the 184mm shock? The way the forces go into the frame might be a bit different, is that likely to be a problem?

The other option is to get a fully custom shock made, clearly this is going to cost.

Fast suspension are ~£700, stentect are similarly expensive.

I bought a small pile of rock shock monarch bits from on one with the hope of building a monarch with a piggy back in 165×38. I couldn’t get the parts to work properly together, one local suspension tuner couldn’t get them to fit as the parts I have are incompatible.

So do you have any suggestions for:

Someone who could put a custom shock together for me, ideally out of monarch bits.

Someone who could make a lump of steel that would allow using a longer shock- and is this a good idea?

Cheers

Could you fit a 650b wheel in conjunction with a slightly longer shock? Give you a bit of wiggle room maybe? It does sound like a lot of faff though for marginal gains!

Hi,

Yes, I could fit a smaller rear wheel, but I’d still be looking for a shock length of 178×50 or something that is not avalable off the shelf.

It is a bit marginal gains, hence not wanting to buy a new frame 🙂

I was hoping to fit a 184x44mm shock with a pair of offset bushings(-6mm to the shock length). That would give 178×44, which would compress the shock by 5mm and give 178x39mm which is probably not worth bothering with.

I think your getting pretty confused here. The shock stroke is fixed, offset bushings just change its total length. A 165×38 is 127mm compressed, for 110mm travel. 178×44 is 134 compressed, giving ~125mm travel, however it would lift the BB up considerably throughout the travel and make the head angle noticeably steeper, the opposite of what you want and certainly not worth 15mm extra travel.

Id strongly recommend you dont bother trying to fit a longer shock, ive done this back in the day and the only way to get it to work well was if you could fit a longer shock without changing the static position of the swingarm, which you can only do if the shock mounts into some carrier you can modify, which yours doesnt.

If you want to make the bike better a slack-set headset and a performance shock (a monarch isnt exactly the best) would make a much bigger improvement.

EDIT: Ive just realised what you meant by compress 5mm, you mean the shock would be restricted 5mm because the swingarm would hit the seat tube! For the love of all that is holy dont do this! Youll snap the frame in 2 rides smashing a swingarm off the frame!!!

What Stato said, even changign wheel size to drop the BB height you’re still altering the height of the BB v the centre of the hubs.

Stato- its my writing thats confusing!

I meant that I could fit a 184 shock, fit -6mm bushings, which would make it 178 long. The maximum length that will fit in the frame is 173. So I would have to compress the shock, even with the ofset bushings, to 173 to get it to fit. That would give 44-5mm of compression= 39mm shock stroke.

I guess thats one of my questions- can i get/ make a carrier to mount a longer shock to the current shock mounting on the frame.

Any suggestions for a 165mm performance shock? I asked tf tuned about a cane creek inline air and they suggested I was too heavy (95kg with no gear).

tall_martin – Member
Stato- its my writing thats confusing!

I meant that I could fit a 184 shock, fit -6mm bushings, which would make it 178 long. The maximum length that will fit in the frame is 173. So I would have to compress the shock, even with the ofset bushings, to 173 to get it to fit. That would give 44-5mm of compression= 39mm shock stroke.

Yeah, as per my edit, dont do this! plus as you identified it wont give you any longer stroke.

I guess thats one of my questions- can i get/ make a carrier to mount a longer shock to the current shock mounting on the frame.

Yes, but no. You are really restricted with the Segment, the only place it could go would be to move the front mount location up and forward, this would make the spring curve very regressive, so it would probably ride like it had less travel than it does now. If you could move the swingarm mount up and back it might be better, but that would be quite difficult and lifting it would mean you would actually need even more stroke to get the same travel (as shock would be further from pivot), youd need to do some serious mathing to work out how it changed the travel before you did it though, as youd probably need to get a shock tune done to match.

Any suggestions for a 165mm performance shock? I asked tf tuned about a cane creek inline air and they suggested I was too heavy (95kg with no gear).

DBIL wouldve been my suggestion. Its stupid of Orange to use that size shock, its too short for the travel as you cant get the shock firm enough if your a tall rider. For my old Marin (same shock, 100mm travel) i gave to my Dad i fitted a coil Fox shock, an old Vanilla RC off ebay, works a treat with a 800lb spring 😆

I didn’t think about moving the shock mount affecting the spring curve. I think i would need a completely new swing arm fabricated to move the rear shock mount up and back. And that would be new bike time 🙁

I have a vanilla on my giant reign, its good, but it bobs like mad. The segment bobs a bit in the open compression setting and loads in the fully open so an old school coil probably isn’t for me 🙂

The segment bobs a bit in the open compression setting and loads in the fully open so an old school coil probably isn’t for me

Id wager you could improve your shock a lot with some tuning, you (and I, I moreso) are on the extreme of the operating envelope for the stock tune on that shock, and its likely they used the same shock tune for each size too! might be worth considering.

Have you talked to Mojo? They might be able to do something with the tuning of the shock

If you move the front shock mount up and forwards you’ll make the leverage curve more regressive – bad!

Have you had the shock custom tuned? It sounds like you need a firmer compression tune, especially on the high speed shims. A coil won’t bob more with the right damper tune, it’ll actually be firmer in the midstroke – however the lack of end stroke progression will be a problem unless you run an even firmer compression tune.

With a firmer compression tune you should also be able to run a bit less rebound as there’ll be less energy to control, which will keep you higher in the travel.

The bike came with a fox ctd shock that I did not get on with.

So a chat to tf tuned and they could do a custom tune for £200. Instead I bought a fox dps shock which is brilliant for 90% of my riding.

I think I’ll try getting the monarch bits made up into a monarch plus shock in the correct size for my bike.

Cheers all

Any suggestions for a 165mm performance shock? I asked tf tuned about a cane creek inline air and they suggested I was too heavy (95kg with no gear).

sell you a hardly used one for £250

Poah, thanks for the offer, but I wouldn’t buy an inline without a warranty as some people have had mixed experiences with reliability.

Also I’m a bit too heavy (apparently :lol:) for one, so I’d need to shift some weight first as well

tall_martin – Member

Poah, thanks for the offer, but I wouldn’t buy an inline without a warranty as some people have had mixed experiences with reliability.

I have to say that it is quite good but you are probably right with the weight my son is pretty light and he has 90psi in the shock. I would consider getting the Manitou McLeod shock.

So a chat to tf tuned and they could do a custom tune for £200.

I think you’re much more likely to have success doing this than any of your other ideas.

You’re riding a very short travel bike with a flat leverage curve and a short stroke shock and you weigh a fair bit more than standard tunes are set for. Also, judging by your username you are tall – and if you think about where your centre of mass is compared to a shorter rider I wouldn’t be surprised if you’re putting even more load through the back end of the bike than a rider the same weight and speed but 6″ shorter.

If need be wait until the shock needs a service because then the custom tune will only cost you about £100 on top of that.

You’re doing well to continually bottom out. I have one and don’t find it a problem at all. I am also a big unit.

Instead of messing about with the framer why not swap it for a 5 29 (Alpine 5)frame? I went the other way but the 5 29 was ace and felt like it had endless travel.

Chester, what pressure are you running in your shock?

I spoke to j tech suspension and it is not possible to create a franked monarch plus. The parts are not avaliable.

So that leaves a custom shock tune as the only realistic option. A custom built coil shock is getting on for £800!

I’ll look out for an xl five 29 or second hand stage 5/6

Cheers

The fox units don’t have the evol air spring in the 165×38 size. The segment has quite a high leverage ratio so needs a lot of damping control so a HH tune would be required at least. The cheapest option is to get the shock tuned.