Viewing 39 posts - 1 through 39 (of 39 total)
  • First aid courses and mtbing.
  • Premier Icon trumpton
    Free Member

    Has anyone done one that has helped with mtbing.if I came across something I wouldn’t have a clue what to do.lleave full face on.keep rider still until help arrives.no clue.are they worth doing or can I learn from videos or something.might get a first aid kit but know nothing about them and how to use them.appreciate they are not needed at many places.coming across an injured person or damaging yourself though might be needed.

    Premier Icon iainc
    Full Member

    I have done my last 2 courses with these guys, the 2 day emergency outdoor one

    https://firstaidtrainingcooperative.co.uk/

    They have been really good and the trainer works on specifics for the activities of the attendeees.

    Premier Icon Onzadog
    Free Member

    When I do mine, it’s typically a 16 hour outdoor course so they do exist.

    Premier Icon trumpton
    Free Member

    Appreciate the link.what do I need to search for that’s relevant so I can look for others too.dont really need mtn survival or anything.

    Premier Icon alanl
    Free Member

    I do one every three years.
    A 2 day ‘outdoor’ first aid course.
    There are loads of people running them.I did my last one at Thornbridge Outdoors, Great Longstone. There were walkers/canoeists and cyclists there. The Certificate can be used for the British Cycling MTB Leader qualification.
    I would definitely recommend the 2 day against the one day, I have to do both for work, the one day is quite limited, the 2 day goes more in depth.
    I know a bloke who is running a course in Birmingham on 12/13th Dec. £115.

    Premier Icon iainc
    Full Member

    I need to search for that’s relevant so I can look for others too.dont really need mtn survival or anything.

    As others have said, the 2 day OFA ones are good for a range of outdoor activities such as MTB, hillwalking, etc. Group size usually max of about 8 per trainer so easy to get a good dialogue going about your own activities and specifics.

    Premier Icon thegeneralist
    Free Member

    OP, can I ask. Is your shift/space bar missing, or is this the new thing to type without the generally accepted paraphernalia between sentences?

    Saw it on the Cannock thread too, and got me wondering.

    Cheers

    Premier Icon stevenmenmuir
    Free Member

    Definitely do one. It’ll give you things to think about that you may not have considered. You talk about leaving a full face helmet on, are they breathing, can you tell without moving them or taking the helmet off? I think all the courses I’ve done were with BASP but I think they’re only run in Scotland. If the provider is doing it for a cycling club etc they’ll run you through some mtbing scenarios. If you can find a course near you tell them you’re a mountain biker.

    Premier Icon trumpton
    Free Member

    Sorry about the space bars.spelling is another matter though.give me some slack though.i am dyslexic.will try harder.

    Premier Icon trumpton
    Free Member

    Thanks everyone.

    Premier Icon big_n_daft
    Free Member

    Loads of outdoor first aid courses, try to find a outdoor oriented provider and they are likely to be good. The key aspect is that they make you practise scenarios so you have to work through the points that are taught and do them, also the instructor can correct any errors in your understanding, impossible to do just from YouTube

    Premier Icon iainc
    Full Member

    Me on my most recent one, last month 😁

    Premier Icon trumpton
    Free Member

    Why do you need to keep doing them.

    Premier Icon iainc
    Full Member

    I am a volunteer coach and MTB leader so they need to be redone every 3 years for compliance with British Cycling Regs

    Premier Icon ditch_jockey
    Full Member

    Second the recommendation for BASP – most of their courses are in Scotland, but I think they do run stuff south of the border as well.

    The need to keep renewing them is to do with ‘skill fade’ – most of us don’t do enough first aid between courses to keep current, so a three year refresher/top up helps with that, as well as updating any changes to best practice.

    Premier Icon franksinatra
    Full Member

    Why do you need to keep doing them

    Official answer is so you can keep current with any changes to practice and also to keep certificate valid.

    More importantly though I think its about retaining confidence so, when you do need to use it, it comes as naturally as apossible

    OP, where are you based?

    Premier Icon thegeneralist
    Free Member

    Righto.

    as others have said, loads of wilderness specific courses. I did mine in Hope. Was pleasantly surprised by how interestinh it was. Loads of stuff had moved on from since I did my previous courses and it was fascinating to see the changes.

    Eg tourniquets and not checking pulses etc

    The scary thing though is how soon you forget it. We did drills etc on the course where you have to quickly assess and act. further danger- breathing – catastrophic bleeding – other injuries -… – hypothermia etc

    A few weeks later and of course that has completely gone out of your mind. ( As evidenced by the fact that my list above is probably wrong)

    3 years is a huge amount of time to forget this stuff , so I probably should do some video watching.

    Great that you’te planniNg to do it. Shows an admirable respect for your fellow man.

    Premier Icon trumpton
    Free Member

    Interesting and funny at the same time.

    Premier Icon soobalias
    Free Member

    while an outdoor type course is likely more relevant, don’t dismiss any basic first aid training course you can access. anything better than nothing.

    that said, ive not seen/tried any virtual learning options and my gut feeling is similar to learning your martial art from youtube.

    Premier Icon trumpton
    Free Member

    Thanks. I Get it now. I’m off. I don’t want to start any fights.

    Premier Icon poly
    Free Member

    Third recommendation for BASP: To become a first aid instructor With most orgs actually remarkably simple you don’t actually have to ever deal with a real unconscious person or emergency. Whilst some will be Red Cross or St John volunteers (you can do a lot of hours standing in a field without dealing with anything especially difficult, or as little more than an assistant to the guy who knows what he’s doing too); and even outdoor specific courses are more likely to be taught by outdoor instructors who have added it to their repertoire than people who have dealt with lots of casualties in real life. The Ski Patrollers course is different – they are taught by actual ski patrollers who deal with all sort of high speed injuries very like you will get on a mtb, and work in exposed places where an ambulance crew aren’t going to appear and scoop someone up in minutes.

    Much of first aid is common sense or simple rules. It’s very hard to fail most first aid courses but that doesn’t mean those people are any good at it – just that they’ve been better than doing nothing. The skills rarely taught or worked on on normal first aid courses are managing the scene/people and confidence.

    Oh, and there’s plenty of threads here on “what first aid kit” – unless you are required to carry one (with specific content) keep it simple – you can improvise the function of most bits, with zip ties, insulating tape, spare tube you might have for repairs anyway. More helpful to have plasters, wipes, pain killers for the very minor but bloody irritating scratches, grates etc – especially if children around.

    Premier Icon trumpton
    Free Member

    I deserved the comments. I’ve slowed down my typing so hopefully that will be better too.

    Premier Icon thegeneralist
    Free Member

    To counter some of what Poly said, the woman I did my course with in Hope was excellent. She had huge amounts of experience in various disaster zones around the world and was full of antidotes (SWIDT?) about different things that had happened in her varied past. Really inspiring.

    https://www.highpeakfirstaid.co.uk/

    Premier Icon Nobeerinthefridge
    Free Member

    Try to see if work will provide funding for first aid at work training, save you spending your own hard earned, and you’ll learn the correct techniques that can be applied in any situation.

    Forget worrying about your typing bud, it’s not an issue. 😁

    Premier Icon doug_basqueMTB.com
    Full Member

    Typing? It’s a forum not a book!

    BASP ones are great. I did one or two up in Glenmore lodge and it’s a great excuse for a long weekend in Aviemore. I’ve done 5 I think, both in Spain and the UK, and the best was the BASP one. Obviously there are parallels with MTB and ski injuries. The least relevant one I did was a week long one in a hospital in Spain, it really focused on maintaining life for 9 minutes until the ambulance arrived. Combined with the other outdoor ones it was great though as it really drilled the life support stuff.

    Premier Icon kennyp
    Full Member

    We got together a group of friends who are all mountain bikers, hillwalkers, fell runners, skiers etc. We then approached St Johns and asked them to do a course featuring both first aid basics and also first aid focussing on things like broken bones, hypothermia, head injuries that sort of thing, plus dealing with a casualty in poor conditions while waiting for a rescue team to arrive. Basically the sort of injuries you are most likely to encounter in the hills.

    They were happy to do it and in return we chipped in and gave them a donation. We didn’t get a specific qualification but weren’t looking for one. Thankfully I’ve only had to use the knowledge two or three times, but handy to have. In fact typing this making me realise a refresher would be a good idea.

    Premier Icon whytetrash
    Free Member

    Rec first aid courses are pretty good Jonny Collins runs them in N Wales and I’ve done a few…he runs MTB leadership courses too so usually all mtbers on the first aid stuff

    Premier Icon trumpton
    Free Member

    Thanks. Bit of a strange question I know but if you did it wrong and damaged someone can you be held liable ?.I know it should be taken seriously and training would avoid this but I just wondered. Not as a professional guide but just as a normal rider assisting someone.

    Premier Icon trumpton
    Free Member

    Please do not think if I am asking this question I shouldn’t be doing the course type attitude. Just want to be careful.

    Premier Icon trumpton
    Free Member

    It’s not that I might do it wrong. More that someone who is seriously injured and not very happy might play the blame game if they are not very nice. I understand the vast majority of people and the emergency crews will be grateful.

    Premier Icon paladin
    Full Member

    trumpton
    Thanks. Bit of a strange question I know but if you did it wrong and damaged someone can you be held liable ?.I know it should be taken seriously and training would avoid this but I just wondered. Not as a professional guide but just as a normal rider assisting someone.

    That kind o stuff is explained on the course.
    Defo do a course!
    I did BASP one and it was great. Stuff I learned there likely helped save someone’s life, so it’s money well spent.

    Premier Icon trumpton
    Free Member

    Well done! Thanks.

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Full Member

    I did a 4 day residential Rescue and Emergency Care course at Plas-y-Brenin many years ago – aimed specifically at the mountain leader awards scheme.

    https://www.pyb.co.uk/first-aid-and-rescue/

    Premier Icon Milese
    Free Member

    My cycling club organised and funded one last year, paid a local instructor for the day, booked a local hall and trained 8 or 12 club members in basic emergency first aid.

    Didnt cost too much, and its well worth having someone who slightly knows what to do on a club ride if you can.

    If you are part of a club or cycling community, this could be a good way to get what you want but also to put something back.

    Premier Icon scotroutes
    Full Member

    I’ve done a few over the years. One was provided by ITC and the guy was really good a targeting intervention with what you might already have to hand as a mountain biker –  e.g. using a backpack as a sling.

    Premier Icon poly
    Free Member

    Thanks. Bit of a strange question I know but if you did it wrong and damaged someone can you be held liable ?.

    A a general rule you would not be liable for trying to help if you were behaving sensibly, and presumably, as an untrained person, there is no trained person around.

    I know it should be taken seriously and training would avoid this.

    It won’t avoid it, but it might reduce the risk you make someone worse – but plenty of medical professionals screw up every year, so you can’t expect to become so good in 2/3/4 days to never make a situation worse. To some extent being trained might actually mean there was slightly more argument for liability – if you know you shouldn’t do something but do it anyway, but it’s very unlikely because for those judgement calls there is probably a good reason – you don’t need to make the best decision, just a reasonable one.

    More that someone who is seriously injured and not very happy might play the blame game if they are not very nice.

    Well anyone can try – it doesn’t mean they will succeed. Rule one of ambulance chasing is to ensure that the person you are pursuing is likely to have the means to pay up – so generally their lawyers will tell them not to bother unless you are insured (or there’s a cast-iron case and you are wealthy); if you are insured (e.g. via your house insurance) then whilst it would be frustrating and stressful you’ll not be out of pocket.

    I can assure you that watching helplessly as someone dies in front of you and there is nothing you can do is pretty horrific, and not something you forget easily. Doing that and wondering what if I had tried, or what if I had gone on a course would be far worse.

    Premier Icon trumpton
    Free Member

    That’s very insightful. Thanks alot Poly.

    Premier Icon alanl
    Free Member

    Thanks. Bit of a strange question I know but if you did it wrong and damaged someone can you be held liable ?.

    Generally, no.
    This is reinforced at every FA course. Stick to what you should do, and no liability will arise. IIRC, there havent been any Court cases against someone who has administered (non-professional) help to an injured person.
    The one that is brought up at every course is this – a person falls badly off a cliff. They are briefly conscious and say their back is hurting terribly, and they cant move. they then pass out and stop breathing.
    What do you do?
    You think they may have a broken back, so shouldnt be moved. Yet now they are going blue through not breathing. Do you keep them still to preserve their back, and let them die, or, move them to administer CPR?
    The answer is always to keep them breathing and the heart working. You are obviously careful when moving them, but if they have a broken spinal cord, well, if you didnt move them, they would be dead. So the better option is to try to keep them alive.
    Such scenarios are so rare, that to ever come across that, you would be very very unlucky, and you would not get sued for trying to save someones life.

    Premier Icon trumpton
    Free Member

    Thanks.

Viewing 39 posts - 1 through 39 (of 39 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.