I’m unclear on what research proves this. There’s *some* on this forum, yes. If we made all of our decisions based on how people on web forums feel, we’d be in a pretty sorry place.

If you think it’s only this forum that thinks this then you can’t see the wood for the trees. It’s a bad joke, misfired. Just because the event is good doesn’t cancel that out.

Six pages over a day – call it what you will, their marketing works 😆

If you think it’s only this forum that thinks this then you can’t see the wood for the trees

Still waiting…

Yeah, like.

What would Mumsnet think?

Anyone care to link em’ to this thread??

I assume all those being negative all have done more for the female side of mountain biking than Airmaiden.

That’s not the point.
I don’t even know why something specific has to be done for female mountain biking? I’ve ridden my mountain bike every week for the past 9 years (except for 6 months off for surgery), I’ve entered events every year, I tell everyone how brilliant it is. I don’t need to be attracted into it by shit attempts at humour.

Still waiting…

Try searching on Twitter. Or probably any other online shouting facility 😉 But when I looked on Twitter it seemed to be proving about as popular as a poo bobbing in the shallow end. (A good chunk of that was in response to @EverydaySexism’s tweet, so no real surprise.)

I don’t even know why something specific has to be done for female mountain biking?

Because a lot of women feel intimidated by racing with men. Not having to worry about someone hooning behind you, and feeling like you need to get out of the way, ruining your time is a pretty good thing.

The atmosphere at events like Enduromaiden and Foxhunt are brilliantly different.

The atmosphere at events like Enduromaiden and Foxhunt are brilliantly different.

I’m all for women’s events – they’re a good thing. I don’t see why the age/experience categories have to be any different – there is no benefit, only bizarre sexual and frankly inappropriate language. What are they going to call Vets and Super Vets? Old Slags and Dried Up Hags?

If you think it’s only this forum that thinks this then you can’t see the wood for the trees. It’s a bad joke, misfired. Just because the event is good doesn’t cancel that out.

True, I said something similar in reply to a giant thread on one of the women’s mtb FB groups about it. Lots of women thought it was shit, a thought it was fine.

Yes, I’m doing something for female mountain biking and sport in general. Supporting my daughter by ensuring she has every opportunity to try each sport she is interested in – that we can afford.

vickypea – Member

I don’t even know why something specific has to be done for female mountain biking?

60-70 people turned up for enduro maiden the last 2 years. 12 women signed up for the last Scottish Enduro Series (out of 278), not enough to make a full podium for 2 of the 3 classes…

I think what they are doing seems excellent. Just the cat names seem dumb.

Maybe that’s it – it’s actually the mumsnet market they’re after rather than the ladettes.

Or maybe since they’re selling out they need some way to discourage some women from taking part.

Because it’s quite clear (to me as a bloke, reading the responses from women on here and reports of responses from other women) that this sort of “marketing” is offputting to some women. Honestly who cares what us blokes think about it, but if it is indeed something which puts off some of the potential customers then it’s probably a bad thing, irrespective of whether they’re selling out or lots of other women don’t have a problem with it. I can’t see any negatives for less controversial category names.

And in case I need to mention it I do understand the importance of such events and that something needs to be put on for women (and that lots of women are keen on doing women only events). It seems the organisers of these events are doing a great job, about the only thing they might have got wrong is the category naming.

Hard to believe you lot have gotten yourself so worked up about this.

I entered the event and it’s one of the best days I’ve had on my bike. I couldn’t give a flying duck what the category names were, and nobody was bothered on the day. In fact it was all quite funny. I’ve also entered TweedLove enduros in the past and they were nowhere near the fun that this was. I doubt I’ll enter another tweedlove Enduro because of the experience of racing it as a woman and their lack of considering how to get more women into it or make it a better experience.

Air maiden does so much to help get women riding stuff they normally wouldn’t ride and really enjoying every minute on the bike. Lynne really gets what women are about and how they work differently from men. I think she’s got a degree in psychology, so approaches things a bit differently from your normal coach.

It’s definitely not aimed at the mumsnet crowd and anyone who knew Lynne would think it’s hilarious to even mention the two in the same category.

The event is very much aimed at getting women racing who wouldn’t normally whilst also providing a race for more experienced people to enjoy as a majority rather than the extreme minority that you get at normal enduro races. Hence, the wide range that the categories provide.

Please take your mock feminist outrage somewhere else and leave this event alone.

Hard to believe you lot have gotten yourself so worked up about this.

I entered the event and it’s one of the best days I’ve had on my bike. I couldn’t give a flying duck what the category names were, and nobody was bothered on the day. In fact it was all quite funny. I’ve also entered TweedLove enduros in the past and they were nowhere near the fun that this was. I doubt I’ll enter another tweedlove Enduro because of the experience of racing it as a woman and their lack of considering how to get more women into it or make it a better experience.

Air maiden does so much to help get women riding stuff they normally wouldn’t ride and really enjoying every minute on the bike. Lynne really gets what women are about and how they work differently from men. I think she’s got a degree in psychology, so approaches things a bit differently from your normal coach.

It’s definitely not aimed at the mumsnet crowd and anyone who knew Lynne would think it’s hilarious to even mention the two in the same category.

The event is very much aimed at getting women racing who wouldn’t normally whilst also providing a race for more experienced people to enjoy as a majority rather than the extreme minority that you get at normal enduro races. Hence, the wide range that the categories provide.

Please take your mock feminist outrage somewhere else and leave this event alone.

No one is suggesting the event is not a good thing – it clearly is doing brilliant stuff. Our sport needs to be open to all regardless of sex or gender. Events that make that happen are much needed and someone who clearly has the enthusiasm, talent and commitment to do it is obviously a real positive.

However, please note you represent the views of one woman – not all. You are entitled to your view, as is everyone else – including several women who have varied opinions already on this thread. Feminism is not just an issue for women – so perhaps our ‘mock’ feminism is less ‘mock’ than you think.

Hard to believe you lot have gotten yourself so worked up about this.

It would be harder to believe if they didn’t!

Feminism is not just an issue for women – so perhaps our ‘mock’ feminism is less ‘mock’ than you think.

Whilst that may well be true it’s definitely not your (or my) place to dictate the terms.

Anyway, my wife found it amusing and now wants to do a coaching session so all publicity is good publicity as they say.

Sample response from another woman – I asked my OH her views and she said said she’d actually be more likely to enter the event due to the naming of the categories! She is Glaswegian though (and very strongly feminist), so take from that what you will about her sense of humour… 😉

Please take your mock feminist outrage somewhere else and leave this event alone.

@julzm – No I will not. I have no problem with you holding the views you appear to, I just disagree with them and am exercising my right to debate an issue of legitimate public concern on a public discussion forum.

And it isn’t outrage – most of the objectors on this thread have expressed their views carefully so as to indicate that their disapproval falls somewhat short of outrage. And whatever it is, it isn’t mock it is genuine, Most people expressing their views here are not trolls and I don;t believe you are either. Why do you believe people who hold views contrary to your’s are not genuine?

I entered the event and it’s one of the best days I’ve had on my bike. I couldn’t give a flying duck what the category names were

That’s the feeling I got from the event when I was marshalling.

Thanks for giving a participant and target market response.

target market

I think this was why I started the thread.

There clearly is a target market, I really just wondered if the way it was targeted made other women who are likely to compete in that type of event feel that they were excluded because they felt the racing categories weren’t appropriate.

Could they still attract their core rider group but also drag in some other people if they chose to use different class categories?

Would julzm still have entered if it had just been;

under a certain age
inxeperienced enduro racers
experienced enduro racers
over a certain age

or would that have made her feel it was too formal/traditional/mainstream?

inxeperienced enduro racers

Noobs with Boobs?

nobody was bothered on the day. In fact it was all quite funny.

People who turn up to event support event shocker….hold the front pages

IN later news racists at lynching were not upset by black mans suffering

The event is very much aimed at getting women racing

Who knew it was as simple as call them whores to get them to engage.. i should try this more often

GOd I wish i had a fancy degree in psychology to let me know if using these names encouraged all women. whilst some wont be bothered its obvious some will so its just not helpful in achieving that goal as it will deter some of their target audience.

Please take your mock feminist outrage somewhere else and leave this event alone.

I love it when folk froth whilst claiming others are the ones who need to stop frothing

Could they still attract their core rider group but also drag in some other people if they chose to use different class categories?

I refer you back to Northwind’s comment. 70 women sold-out Airmaiden.

12 out of 278 were women in the last Scottish Enduro Series round.

I’d say they’ve got the marketing spot on from those stats.

am exercising my right to debate an issue of legitimate public concern on a public discussion forum.

Trouble is though – this isn’t the sort of debate where anyone* is prepared to change their views based on what anyone else says. Which makes it a pointless merry-go-round of bollocks.

*someone might have but I didn’t read it all.

Would julzm still have entered if it had just been;

under a certain age
inxeperienced enduro racers
experienced enduro racers
over a certain age

Of course she would have! She said, I quote – she “couldn’t give a flying duck what the category names were, and nobody was bothered on the day. ”

Of course she would have!

So why choose what they did, knowing that some women would choose not to enter? Just ends up seeming unnecessarily divisive, ‘edgy’ for the sake of it.

the issue was did the name deter folk from entering who otherwise would have entered

Its obvious, even to you dez, that it did not deter those who did enter.

Its seems pretty obvious it would deter some women – like say having a category for rapists would deter some men from entering an event
its a no brainer of a question.

So why choose what they did, knowing that some women would choose not to enter?

I’m confused by this. I live in the valley, and ride with a lot of the local female riders and no one sited the category names as a reason not to enter.

Trouble is though – this isn’t the sort of debate where anyone* is prepared to change their views based on what anyone else says. Which makes it a pointless merry-go-round of bollocks.

This is true of most threads that go beyond a few pages though. But the usual suspects seem to have fun on the merry-go-round so no harm done. But this thread really !!!
This post should have ended the thread 😀

I entered the event and it’s one of the best days I’ve had on my bike. I couldn’t give a flying duck what the category names were, and nobody was bothered on the day.

Its seems pretty obvious it would deter some women – like say having a category for rapists would deter some men from entering an event

Maybe that was the idea – it sold out, so less disappointed people (wimminz).

I’d sign up for a rapist category (if I raced). Wouldn’t bother me in the slightest, cos I know I’m not one. And anyway it would be “Enduro Rapists” and you can’t rape an enduro. Said he, joining in with the merry-go-round of bollocks.

Its seems pretty obvious it would deter some women –

This is true but people are all different especially relating to their take on humour. If you try to not offended “anyone” make everything inclusive at every level things become dull,dull,dull 🙁 The category names reflect the organiser’s sense of humour and a hope the event will be conducted in that spirit. If you don’t buy into that fair enough,just tick it as another thing to ignore. I do that all the time.

Hard to believe you lot have gotten yourself so worked up about this.

I entered the event and it’s one of the best days I’ve had on my bike. I couldn’t give a flying duck what the category names were, and nobody was bothered on the day. In fact it was all quite funny. I’ve also entered TweedLove enduros in the past and they were nowhere near the fun that this was. I doubt I’ll enter another tweedlove Enduro because of the experience of racing it as a woman and their lack of considering how to get more women into it or make it a better experience.

Air maiden does so much to help get women riding stuff they normally wouldn’t ride and really enjoying every minute on the bike. Lynne really gets what women are about and how they work differently from men. I think she’s got a degree in psychology, so approaches things a bit differently from your normal coach.

It’s definitely not aimed at the mumsnet crowd and anyone who knew Lynne would think it’s hilarious to even mention the two in the same category.

The event is very much aimed at getting women racing who wouldn’t normally whilst also providing a race for more experienced people to enjoy as a majority rather than the extreme minority that you get at normal enduro races. Hence, the wide range that the categories provide.

Please take your mock feminist outrage somewhere else and leave this event alone.

I do find it odd that a commercial event has used this terminology, my thoughts that I posted earlier in this thread was that it was rather juvenile. Common sense dictates that one doesn’t want to put off paying punters, how can you seriously expect paying punters to know that the organisor has their own individual sense of humour?

I don’t race but even if I did that terminology would deter me from entering. It’s not clever and it isn’t funny, imo obviously.

Maybe that was the idea – it sold out, so less disappointed people (wimminz).

Yes dez that was almost certainly the reason 🙄

I’d sign up for a rapist category (if I raced).

I am not surprised to read that.

If you try to not offended “anyone” make everything inclusive at every level things become dull,dull,dull

True so we should call women whores then to avoid this?Just seems unnecessarily “edgy” for no real gain to me

It might be just me but if i wanted to encourage women to participate in something i would use an approach other than calling them whores and using overtly sexualised categories, unless i was organising a swingers night or an orgy.

Who knew it was as simple as call them whores to get them to engage.. i should try this more often

I do get that ‘whore’ isn’t meant in the usual sense here, it just means someone who can’t get enough of racing enduros. Still lame, mind.

Since you need it explained again.

rickon – Member

I refer you back to Northwind’s comment. 70 women sold-out Airmaiden.

And something else I should have mentioned- the proportion of novice racers or first-time enduro racers was off the scale. These days the mainstream events seem to have gone a bit DH, it’s a lot of the same faces, and the “entry level” events are mostly piss-easy. Come and ride a red route, yay! I don’t think many if any real enduros get such a high proportion of first timers. It was ace- reminded me of being at enduro ground zero at innerleithen back in the day. One of the things people miss out on now is that original “we have no idea what we’re doing” feeling- if you turn up for a race now, everyone understands the format and knows what they’re doing so doing your own learning curve must feel harder than when we were all going wtf together.

I’d sign up for a rapist category (if I raced). Wouldn’t bother me in the slightest, cos I know I’m not one.

But are you really unable to understand that people other than yourself, men and women included, would object to events trivialising and normalising rape as part of a wider culture in which we all exist, and why such objections might be valid?

I refer you back to Northwind’s comment. 70 women sold-out Airmaiden.

12 out of 278 were women in the last Scottish Enduro Series round.

I’d say they’ve got the marketing spot on from those stats.

It’d have probably sold out anyway, given that it was marketed as a women-only event. The category names aren’t part of the marketing, they’re secondary to the the fact it’s women-only and you’d only discover them if you looked at the event website after having decided to look at the website after the marketing had hauled you in. The thought process might go-

1. Oh, a women-only enduro, that sounds like it might be good fun. I think I’ll enter*.
2. Oh, I see what they’ve done with the age/experience category names there- very (funny/droll/wacky/dull/must try harder)**

* Not me personally, it’s too far away
** delete as applicable.

It’s the ‘women-only’ and the fact that will have spread across various FB groups that’s the marketing here, not the category names.

Again, meh, no froth/rage/whatever here. I’m not angry, just disappointed 😆

Yeah, I suggested that earlier as a piss take. Presumably if they don’t sell out next time they’ll consider changing the category names?

I’m not sure of the relevance of that – I think everybody agrees the events must be great. Are people really suggesting that the category naming actually results in some people entering who wouldn’t have otherwise?

Are people really suggesting that the category naming actually results in some people entering who wouldn’t have otherwise?

That was my point in my last post, the category names aren’t part of the marketing, it’s the ‘women-only’ bit that did all the heavy lifting.

aracer – Member

I’m not sure of the relevance of that

The relevance is that it proves what a total success the event is despite people’s enthusiastic fault finding.