outrage/frothing/hand-wringing you can call it whatever offends you least

How about we call it “curious discussion” rather than using a pejorative term to just dismiss it all as something that shouldn’t be discussed? I know it’s very comfortable to live in a binary world where anything that anyone else says is either totally legitimate or totally contemptible, but that’s not this world and constructive discussion is how things get progressed.

Would you be terribly upset if you were referred to as a bike-whore?

Of course not.

Would I take my daughter to an event where becoming a whore was considered something to aspire to? That’s a different, but far more relevant, question.

As is, would a male event organiser be justified in labelling an event category “whores” and if not, is the key difference simply that the organiser is male? What about if there’s a team of male and female organisers?

clearly it worked as an event but does the categories attract or dissuade women from entering it. Or does it matter not one bit?

Have you never been in the company of women? They’re not all pride and prejudice.

Have a look at mumsnet if you don’t know any. It might be an eye-opener.

Looks like it’s managed and setup by women, surely they should be able to decide if they find it offensive or not?

As there is no head of women’s opinion I don’t think a few people settings up a race (nor anyone else I guess )can decide if it is offencif to “them lot”.

5thElefant – are you a man or a woman?

If it’s the former then why are you trying to tell me how women are?

If it’s the latter then you’re a sample of one and I was trying to get a wider response than just one person saying ‘you don’t know what women are like’.

As there is no head of women’s opinion I don’t think a few people settings up a race (nor anyone else I guess )can decide if it is offencif to “them lot”.

Indeed. They need male feminist white knights to protect them from their internalised misogyny.

It’s pretty poor IMO, can’t see how it is encouraging. I’m sure it was funny in her head, but really?!

Enduro Maiden | A Racer’s Perspective.

My mate Rosie complained something rotten about the names of the categories when she did it last year. She managed to put it a bit more delicately online, though-

The only slight niggle for me was the last minute surprise of the category names; though I appreciate the sentiment was good natured, I did feel that it undermined the purpose of the event a little. It, for me, slightly belittled the achievements of the riders, creating a barrier to us feeling as though we can race on the same terms as ‘the boys’, rather than breaking these kinds of attitudes down. It’s a tiny gripe, compared to an all round wonderful day, but I hope it’s avoided at future events; Juniors, Seniors, Masters and Vets please.

Me to girl in office (who runs pretty well): “would you enter a race with these category names?”

Girl in office:”do the blokes that can’t keep up go in the whinging cockbag category?”

Not sure it helps the debate but it made me smile.

But, with all respect, STW isn’t the place to whip up an internet campaign of approbation on this type of issue. If that was what someone was minded to do. I can see such a thing developing quite a momentum though, which might get Forestry Commission Scotland and other stakeholders a bit concerned.

What next races purely for people not wanting to be pigeonholed into a gender.

Lump everyone in one giant catagory …but then someone would decry I’m not a human being.

hmm, I don’t get the irony and my mrs certainly wouldn’t

I marshalled the Enduromaiden last year. The event was meant to be proper fun racing, and the naming that was chosen kind of reflected that.

Whereas Enduro events feel a bit like ‘its not for us’ for the girls I ride with, Enduromaiden was setup to categorise people based on experience, so those who hadn’t raced before didn’t feel daunted.

If you knew the ladies that ran the event, they have a wicked sense of humour and guide/coach girls all the time, with the aim of building their confidence. I trust their judgement.

The first year 70 ladies raced in the event. 70. That’s bonkers. If you had 17 ladies at a normal Enduro you’d be doing well.

The event was sold out, so I guess the names didn’t put competitors off that much.

The whole event was incredibly well organised, the atmosphere was great, there were coaches around on stages during practice, and there was great banter.

Of all the events I’ve been to, it felt the most welcoming.

Context is everything and It was clearly meant to be light hearted and not abusive so I’m struggling to get worked up about it.

So from a very small sample size, some people think it’s inoffensive, some people don’t like it and some of those who do or don’t like it are also women. Or are related to a woman. Or work with one.

So, in answer to the OPs question, it appears some women would enter and some would be put off entering by the category name.

Move along people, question answered.

It’s run and organised by very cool women I’ve had the pleasure of biking baking with, for very cool women.

FTFY.

Female riders – would you enter an event that categorised you as a ‘whore’?

Well I’m going to disregard that the question was not put to me and give my answer anyway. I would enter despite thinking the category names were dodgy. It’s probably the sticks and stones that will cause me more problems.

Have any ladies replied?

Have any ladies replied?

I think so. And some women too 😉

cinnamon_girl – Member

Have any ladies replied?

Has a man given them permission to?!

The problem with context is that visitors to the event page (which will presumably be linked to and may be where many visitors first land) may not browse around the rest of the site to acquire that context. So are left with just the category names, which send a mixed message.

It looks worse when you see it on Roots and rain 😯 https://www.rootsandrain.com/race4479/2016-jul-23-air-maiden-maidenduro-innerleithen/results/

It’s run and organised by very cool women I’ve had the pleasure of biking with, for very cool women.

But I applaud the middle aged male faux internet outrage. 2/10

We all get the supposed joke, I’m sure they’re really cool and all, the trouble is the Cat’ naming choices are still just playing to the male dominated, “Rugger-Buggerish”, “women as sexualised objects” mentality that I’d rather MTBing didn’t conform to…
It’s not necessary and it actually seems to go completely against the whole point of a women’s enduro series.

Ask youself what is the purpose of the series?
Challenging male domination of MTBing?
Challenging gender stereotyping?
Helping women feel confident and able to enjoy MTBing?
Plain old enjoyment of riding/racing a bike?

So does a results table strewn with sexualised terms like “Virgin”, “Whore” and “Cougar” next to women’s names actually help that at all?

I’d love to get my kids (Both Girls) more into cycling as they get older, I’m not sure how impressed I’d be (or my wife) entering them in an event with category names like this…
I can’t see how it helps women’s cycling, especially in a niche like Enduro, challenge gender inequalitie and grow and attract new participants, please enlighten me if I’ve missed something…

Trivialising people’s response to it, defending it just because there are women behind it, telling us it’s some sort of “Humour”, these are hallmarks bullies and sexists.

Dare I say it, men who cannot recognise (or jump to defend) sexism, or gender stereotyping, especially that being perpetrated by women on themselves, really are just arseholes, and really are the ones with a problem. Drag your mind out of the 1970’s FFS.

Call me a PC, handwringing, lefty, professionally offended, sissy if you want, at least I’m not a biggot…

😀

Well, this girl thinks it’s a bit silly but hardly worthy of outrage from some of the STW chaps. Bit surprised though that the organisors used this terminology in the 21st century.

Is the kettle on?

So are left with just the category names, which send a mixed message.

That you either want to enter a virgin or a whore?

It’s pretty poor IMO, can’t see how it is encouraging. I’m sure it was funny in her head, but really?!

My sentiments too. Lacks imagination and not very well thought out – especially if they genuinely want to encourage young girls into mountain biking. As someone else has pointed out, kids are bound to ask what a cougar/whore is in this context.

It looks worse when you see it on Roots and rain

That is unfortunate……and funny 😀

Just to add that I wonder whether any complaints were received from women, either competitors, would-be competitors who were put off or those who happened to read it, due to use of that terminology.

I don’t think there’s any need for that terminology, it’s just juvenile.

It looks worse when you see it on Roots and rain

🙂

*ring ring*
“Hello, Air Maiden…?”
“Hi, I’d like to enter my daughter as a virgin.”
“What?!”
“In the event.”
“Oh, I see. What’s her name?”
“Wendy McWendy.”
“Let’s see… Ah. Yes, here she is. She’s a whore.”
“What?!”
“She’s not a virgin, she’s a whore. She’s done three events already.”
“Oh, I see. Fine. Can I enter my wife?”
“Is she a whore as well?”
“I don’t know. I’ll ask her once she’s finished noshing off a paying customer.”

Just apply it to a male alternative….

Who here (men) would sign up to the Men’s only “rent boy” category?

I suspect the turn out would be low.

Why not simply:
Let the ladies manage the event how they like. Anyone that shares the same sense of humour can pay to join. If their joke gets a lot of PC middle gents offended in the process (with an accompanying 10 page thread, tea + biscuits), driving even more PR for their event; then good for them. Anything that gets people out on their bikes having fun is good with me.

Used to love seeing all the old silly RobW / SP downhill joking back in the day. Everyone seems offended and outraged these days.

I am with bez on this – I am not feeling outrage, more puzzled as to how this works in a positive, riding bikes, being women, cultural way…

I’m an trying not be be as strong in my response, hence not typing more too quickly. I am genuinely intrigued as to how the potential customers and participants of such an event see it – and maybe the wider world of cycling (and heaven forbid) beyond our ickle sport…

I know that if I as a man used such terms, it would be a totally different context, and I would be somewhat savaged. I expect the organiser fully understands the divisiveness of her categories – and thinks it will play in her favour. However, I would also expect she understands how many will also struggle with such terms used about their mother, wife, partner or daughter…

Who here (men) would sign up to the Men’s only “rent boy” category?

I think you mean gigolo and there’d probably be a few takers

“Rent boy” isn’t really comparable, though, because it hasn’t been transposed into a broader vernacular like “whore” has: no-one would say someone was an “attention rent boy” or that someone was “gigoloing themselves”. Which, whilst it might be tempting to attribute to the fact that “whore” simply has fewer syllables, I’d suggest is largely due to the historic bias in the sex trade normalising the “male customer, female provider” relationship. Which is kind of the question here: does using “whore” bring that bias up or is it just a bit of self-aware fun?

Women on my Twitter bubble seem to be universally against this. In no uncertain terms, in come cases.

I guess if the organisers were aiming for ‘divisive and challenging’ they’ve succeeded – far from being a positive ‘women’s enduro event’ it’s just caused more polarisation of opinion.

Discussing this with my wife, she puts it down as misguided humour, and doesn’t see any benefit from it. She wouldn’t want to enter an event with these category names.

I would also expect she understands how many will also struggle with such terms used about their mother, wife, partner or daughter…

However it’s their choice to enter, not yours. Hence this argument is a dead end.

I appreciate the humour doesn’t appeal to all and to be honest it doesn’t quite sit well with me but if they are getting the numbers then they must be doing something right.

Also – men would still be virgins and whores but masters would be sugar daddies. Duh.

tbh even im managing to find this offensive.

bit out of order imo.

However it’s their choice to enter, not yours. Hence this argument is a dead end.

Well, yes and no. The “if you don’t like it bugger off elsewhere” argument isn’t inherently invalid, but everything’s part of a universal culture that we all have a say in, albeit often with some people arguably having a more legitimate say than others in any given area. If I organised an event and had a women’s category called “bitches” then I expect it’d prove unpopular in terms of simple economic demand, but I’d also expect it would cause some justifiable objection from people who’d like to have a third option over and above “pay for it and like it” or “don’t pay for it and tolerate it”. Naturally, my hypothetical “bitches” category isn’t analogous to an event organised by women, but my point is that the opinion that no-one can object to something purely because it exists in a free market is effectively a tyrrany of the majority. Which is A Bad Thing.

Kettle’s on Cinnamon Girl, do you have biscuits? I only whore my kettle out for biscuits 😉

I have posh French and Croation biscuits in the office – can you tell it is holiday season?
Coffee time.