It certainly feels less safe than it used to. My road bike is on the turbo and my gravel bike has seen more NCN and forest roads than all my other bikes ever have.

Sadly I suspect we’re just another target of the right wing culture war designed to distract the masses from the actual bad stuff. Not sure where we rank among asylum seekers, trans people, Greta, Trotskyists, benefits scroungers and pro choice campaigners but we’re up there somewhere. If the man on the Clapham omnibus is venting his spleen about lycra louts on FB after reading the Mail / Express, he’s not asking why the Gov’t are selling the country to their mates. Simples!

Weirdly, the quiet country lanes are the worst. In town/city there’s so much going on, so many vehicles, cyclists and other distractions, it all kind of blurs and generally people get on with it.

@barrysh1tpeas That’s how I feel as well

I wonder whether another thing is that, when I’m in the city, I’m typically wearing sh*t clothes, with my trousers tucked into my socks, and generally helmetless

When I’m in the countryside, it’s lycra, dropbars, bright colours… I look like a cyclist, rather than just some guy getting to work, and it probably triggers some people

If I’m having a lovely casual solo ride, I will pull right over and wave cars on, and often get a wave or toot back. It costs me nothing, and might leave people thinking…nice guy that cyclist…maybe it isn’t as hostile them/us as the media portrays.

That’s my strategy. I consiously think about making allies, so to speak, whenever on a ride

Sadly I suspect we’re just another target of the right wing culture war designed to distract the masses from the actual bad stuff. Not sure where we rank among asylum seekers, trans people, Greta, Trotskyists, benefits scroungers and pro choice campaigners but we’re up there somewhere. If the man on the Clapham omnibus is venting his spleen about lycra louts on FB after reading the Mail / Express, he’s not asking why the Gov’t are selling the country to their mates. Simples!

@downshep Yep, that’s exactly what scares me…

There is a catch 22 here. Cycling in the roads isn’t a massive risk. The more cyclist on the road the safer we are. The social media hype harms us if it takes cyclists off the road

I missed this earlier, but absolutely right. Every cyclist who quits is a victory for “them”.

I think downshep has a good point that we are a target for the culture war, but it’s not working, same as more and more people are seeing through the migrant dog whistle type bullshit and being forced to focus on the true facts as to why times are getting harder

Lovely day today. Weather and drivers – coach stayed behind me about a good 2 miles this morning. CHe turned into my work’s site behind me… after I’d put the bike away, I passed him sat in his coach and congratulated him on his patient driving. Seemed quite surprised!
On the back roads going home, there’s a nice 90deg bend and for the first time in months the road leading up to it was dry, so, as the road is always empty, I thought I’d wang it round the bend nice n fast… oh blimey, there’s a car coming towards me round the blind bend! she stopped. I waved and mouthed thanks… she gave me a lovely big smile.
I should Tweet about it ☺️

I live in Rural Lincolnshire and have cycled for the past 20odd years in and around the local area into Norfolk and neighbouring counties and can’t really say atitudes have changed much. I’ll still get the odd inconsiderate overtake but make a point of trying to get eye contact or communicating with drivers…of course some have the la la blinkers on and their only priority is them.
In general I feel safe and stay out of the gutter.

I notice a general arrogance though and that can be said for all types of road users.

As for SM I try and stay away from anything remotely negative as I find it corrosive and have no wish to fan the flames.

I feel safe and always have done. But then I don’t side in traffic much, don’t ride a drop bar bike, don’t dress like a road cyclist. All things IMO that make it more likely to (undeservedly) have a bad experience.

Lovely day today. Weather and drivers – coach stayed behind me about a good 2 miles this morning. CHe turned into my work’s site behind me… after I’d put the bike away, I passed him sat in his coach and congratulated him on his patient driving. Seemed quite surprised!
On the back roads going home, there’s a nice 90deg bend and for the first time in months the road leading up to it was dry, so, as the road is always empty, I thought I’d wang it round the bend nice n fast… oh blimey, there’s a car coming towards me round the blind bend! she stopped. I waved and mouthed thanks… she gave me a lovely big smile.
I should Tweet about it

You had a coach stuck behind you for 2 miles and you didn’t think to pull in and let them past?! That is exactly the sort of behaviour that causes problems.

You had a coach stuck behind you for 2 miles and you didn’t think to pull in and let them past?! That is exactly the sort of behaviour that causes problems.

Certainly if I’m out, I’ll happily pull over to help vehicles go past me if I’m holding them up.

You had a coach stuck behind you for 2 miles and you didn’t think to pull in and let them past?! That is exactly the sort of behaviour that causes problems.

LOL! “sort of behaviour that causes problems.” Whatever. Its the close passes from the idiot driver that causes the problem.

You had a coach stuck behind you for 2 miles and you didn’t think to pull in and let them past?! That is exactly the sort of behaviour that causes problems.

Ever been stuck behind a car towing a caravan, or a tractor ?. Did they pull in to allow the build up to pass ?

The attitude is cyclists must be second class citizens when on the road, and must act to accommodate others.

I must remember to pull over, then tug the forelock to each car that passes.

Ever been stuck behind a car towing a caravan, or a tractor ?. Did they pull in to allow the build up to pass ?

When they can, yes they do, though they need more space to do it.

The attitude is cyclists must be second class citizens when on the road, and must act to accommodate others.

I must remember to pull over, then tug the forelock to each car that passes.

What a load of bollocks. Do you march on down the pavement regardless of other users? Do you never show any courtesy to others? Or do you just like to constantly play the victim?

Respect is a two way street.

Ever been stuck behind a car towing a caravan, or a tractor ?. Did they pull in to allow the build up to pass ?

Err, yes. Frequently.

Sadly I suspect we’re just another target of the right wing culture war designed to distract the masses from the actual bad stuff.

Where do you get this stuff from? Everything has to be the bloody right wing culture war these days. Makes moi larf!

I notice a general arrogance though and that can be said for all types of road users.

🤔

Well, it’s becoming rather obvious why some people have so much trouble. If you ride like a dick, people will treat you like a dick (quelle surprise).

You had a coach stuck behind you for 2 miles and you didn’t think to pull in and let them past?! That is exactly the sort of behaviour that causes problems

The abuse I would’ve given for such a clueless comment in real life wasn’t tolerated on here. (apologies to the mods).
I feel the comment is a level of moronic abuse also – it got me wound up enough to respond like that.
Such a stupid to make such a comment without knowing the road or the circumstances involved.
I think you should go back to pistonheads.

Ever been stuck behind a car towing a caravan, or a tractor ?. Did they pull in to allow the build up to pass ?

…yes? That happens quite often on the two lane bits of the A1.

@desperatebicycle I saw your comment and it was out of order. Maybe step away from the internet for a few hours.

I think the anti-cyclist vibe from drivers has diminished, however the general level of impatient and passive-aggressive driving has gone up during busy times; but that’s just general and is evident when driving myself, not just when cycling I think.

Yep. I see just as much bad driving when I’m driving as when I’m cycling. But… it can feel worse as I am more vulnerable.

@desperatebicycle – I assume by “stuck behind” you don’t really mean it then? Because they’re either waiting to pass you and you’re slowing them down, or they’re not and they just happen to be following you. Personally, as a long long term cyclist, I’d move over if I was blocking traffic for more than a couple of hundred metres, because I’m not inconsiderate. In exactly the same way that if I were driving a slow car (have had this with car that developed a fault) I’d move over regularly too, and if walking down the pavement I don’t force everyone to wait for me. It’s all about tolerating each other, and not getting in the way. If that first comment got you so upset, I suggest you get some anger management sessions.

So I’m wondering, does anyone else relate to this? More broadly, do people feel that it’s gotten more or less safe for cyclists on UK roads the past years/decades?

It has gotten less safe to cycle over the decades simply because there are more cars and they’re generally bigger and faster now.

That coupled with our prevailing cultural attitudes to cars and their use means that Yes, you are less safe on a bicycle now than you would have been 20-30 odd years ago.

However I do recognise that SM has a distorting affect on individual perceptions, like you say being constantly served up anti-cycling click bait when you’re a cyclist isn’t going to encourage you. And generally the people spouting in articles and comments won’t act out their fantasies of mowing us down, it scuffs their precious time box and puts their premiums up…

It’s not social media, but I often glance at live Google Maps “traffic” to see how the local roads are before setting off on bike rides.

Is it just me, or are they showing more amber and red these days (indicating more traffic), yet often when you arrive in that area a few minutes later it’s far from being busy?

There’s other oddities too, for example right now it shows a fair bit of amber and bit of red between Old Winchester Hill and Sustainability Centre, giving the impression that the ridge is actually quite busy. I’ve ridden that section loads in the last six years, I don’t think I’ve ever had more than two cars pass me in either direction in that ~3 mile section!

Yes, you are less safe on a bicycle now than you would have been 20-30 odd years ago.

This might sell be true. Is that supported by data or is it just your observation, though?

This might sell be true. Is that supported by data or is it just your observation, though?

Given the increase in cycling, I’d imagine data may be tricky to fetch and could be interpreted many ways, but presumably KSI per mile cycled is what we need?

Cars have got so much bigger and wider in the past few years there is less space for everone and that makes me feel less safe. Quiet electric cars may make it worse as you may not even hear them comming.
normally stay away for this sort of thing in SM as its just full of mad people.

It could be true. If the standards of driving haven’t changed in that time but there are twice as many vehicles on the roads then, even if only one in a thousand interactions are a bit dodgy, then the number of dodgy experiences has also doubled.

Is that supported by data or is it just your observation, though?

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/447674/pedal-cyclists-2013-data.pdf

Had a great toad ride of 37 hilly miles in the Clwydian range yesterday. Some much smaller roads than I was expecting, really should have been on the CX bike. Good points, postman pat had already seen me coming way before I saw him and had stopped for me to pass, mile later, stopped to grab a photo, 6 MX bikes came past, all let on to me (lycra clad roadie up some stupid hill on gravelly climbs). Later on, truck slowed to wait to pass, so I pulled into a layby, and then got a big hoot from him as he passed.

Some days its great. Last week nearly got flattened twice in two hundred yards by inattentive drivers.

coffeeking

@desperatebicycle – I assume by “stuck behind”

@coffeeking – who are you quoting with your special “quote” marks? Cos it’s not what I posted.

“target of the right wing culture war”
Give over! This place needs to stop the rantings of the Socialist Workers party who blame everything on some one else.
Surely the problem is with the working classes? After all the crappy drivers seem to be delivery workers. I doubt you’ll find many of the landed gentry there. Same with the builders vans, the hot hatchback youth and the Green Peace sticker toting middle aged driver, all who fit nicely into the dodgy driving brigade. BMW drivers as well for that matter. Asperational!
Where do the emojies live nowadays?
It has nowt to do with politics. A idiot is an idiot. They drive cars and use social media.
Funnily enough I have never seen anything to do with this topic on SM. Possibly because I fail to see the attraction of the whole thing. I come here, and only hit the chat section by mistake( I want to read about bikes) I use the CUK forum for the same and people there have better manners and I use my cycling club FB page to join in with rides.
At least two of them add nowt to my life.
Just switch the damn stuff off.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/447674/pedal-cyclists-2013-data.pdf

That’s interesting, but doesn’t actually answer the question! It’s ten years old. It shows an uptick in aggregate numbers in the 3 years before publication, but a long term decline…and doesn’t compare it to number of kms cycled etc.

Later on, truck slowed to wait to pass, so I pulled into a layby, and then got a big hoot from him as he passed.

I’ve done this and wasn’t expecting the big blast of an air horn and nearly crapped myself.

What a load of bollocks. Do you march on down the pavement regardless of other users? Do you never show any courtesy to others? Or do you just like to constantly play the victim?

It is a load of bollocks, because I DO pull in when i see any sort of build up. Main reason is the pricks in the cars might try to force their way around to save those precious seconds.

You know what.my assertions might have been a bit off looking at these Old government stats from 2015 the first few pages do indeed suggest you were far more likely to be wiped out on a bicycle 40ish years ago and that the situation has improved somewhat, although the first decade or so of this century appears to have been a bit of a flat period in that deaths for cyclists remained a pretty consistent 120ish p/a.

The really useful bit for me is from page 6 onwards which fleshes out the facts a bit.
So You’re more likely to have a collision in an urban setting during the morning or afternoon rush hours and most likely to collide with a car, which makes sense.

However more cycling deaths occur on rural roads (higher speeds, longer emergency response times?), urban bicycle users have a better survival rate, and most importantly larger vehicles (HGVs and Vans) are more likely to crush and kill you than cars…

Driver Inattention and vehicle blind spots are significant factors. Of course this was published in 2015 (about the same time as the spate of cyclist deaths in that there London?) and there have been efforts since To address the blind spot issue from cameras to warning stickers. Have these had a measurable effect?

So I’ll revise my sweeping statement, you’re statistically safer today than you would have been 40 odd years ago and about as safe now as you would have been 20 odd years ago. If you commute in busy town/city’s you’re more likely to be hit, but also more likely to survive than if you get hit on a rural road… And if you can avoid HGV/vans they’re more likely to kill you with their mass and blind spots…

A sample size of one but I used to road ride 30+ years back, then went to the muddy side, and started roady-ing again last year.

The roads are way busier now, and fell apart some years ago. Used to be we could single out on a country road and cars could squeeze by, not possible now as the potholes are breeding. So we try to let vehicles past at every opportunity, and thankfully people on the back roads seem tolerant.

What does seem to have increased is the number of needless close passes, the closest one today by some nob on a big v-twin bike who left barely 300mm at something over the speed limit whilst gassing it. What fun watching the roadies swear (plus my antibiotics are having bowel loosening side effects, so I very nearly literally shat myself).

The vast majority of drivers are fine, but the d***head minority seems to have grown.

I’m not really on social media, but I did think the roads were feeling increasingly dangerous before I stopped riding on them for fun and exercise. The autumn/winter of 2019/2020 it felt like I was getting more and more regularly close passes and head-on overtakes and I decided it just wasn’t worth it any more. Nowadays I still have nice bikes for winter and summer in the garage, but I’ll go for a run instead of popping out on a social ride or on a chaingang.

and most importantly larger vehicles (HGVs and Vans) are more likely to crush and kill you than cars…

Driver Inattention and vehicle blind spots are significant factors. Of course this was published in 2015 (about the same time as the spate of cyclist deaths in that there London?) and there have been efforts since

Since that awful few weeks in London (may well have been 2015ish) I’ve certainly felt HGV and bus drivers have got better round here, much more patient and careful with their overtakes. Theres better training for drivers. Cameras in cabs – especially on buses – have meant that complaints seem to be taken more seriously.

Hmmm safe on roads, I don’t think I’ve ever felt ‘safe’ on the road, I’d say they’re inherently ‘unsafe’ as you don’t have the luxury of a steel safety cage and you cannot predict the behaviour/competence of other users and bikes seem more fally over than cars 🙂

I think there’s most definitely a specific set of riding skills required to make it more safer and also planning the best routes.

Is it worse than before due to social media ,dunno I ran off to a warmer clime but I do think that strapping a GoPro on your head and riding along some mad traffic route probably generates a lot of hits and generates media content.

I do like riding with a rear camera and my current fave has the radar as being the victim of an unsolved hit and run never appealed as I do a lot of solo.(every car that overtakes has its piccy taken)