Watching the news and size of the crowds are very impressive and good natured mostly all walks of life trying to protect services and jobs shame the minority will get all the headlines 🙁

Yeah I was sposed to be going, but I’ve an obligation to fulfil for someone, so no go for me. 🙁

Estimated 200,000 people! And pretty chilled out according to BBC news. Good stuff. And good on Miliband for being down there too, in spite of apparent Tory objections to him speaking.

I was there man… I was there.
Buying shoes.
I bought some Poste ones in support of the fallen Royal Mail employees.

ye have to ask though when was the last time a protest changed anything? it’s all well and good and makes people feel all fuzzy.. all it does is get the polis some overtime though..

Well the Poll Tax riots changed things, and some libraries have bin saved from closure recently, and Tianenmen Square focussed the World’s attention on China’s regime, and stuff has changed in Egypt, and and and…

Protests don’t always lead to immediate change, but can influence future policy. I imagine the threat of action and possible civil unrest might temper this government’s plans somewhat. if they know folk aren’t happy, they’ll think twice maybe before pressing on with their policies.

Protest against cuts fine.

Does that mean we are all happy if taxes go up to avoid cuts then?

You can’t spend money that doesn’t exist…

Not saying anyone is wring, but what is the workable and realistic alternative…

Well the Poll Tax riots changed things, and some libraries have bin saved from closure recently, and Tianenmen Square focussed the World’s attention on China’s regime, and stuff has changed in Egypt, and and and…

Protests don’t always lead to immediate change, but can influence future policy. I imagine the threat of action and possible civil unrest might temper this government’s plans somewhat. if they know folk aren’t happy, they’ll think twice maybe before pressing on with their policies.
Poll tax ‘riots’ are a bit more than protest… Egypt, possibly but that’s a completely different society from us, plus that was a proper protest, not a police stewarded one, the people weren’t moving until something happened, i’ll also counter that with libya, bahrain, syria… I’m struggling to think of any uk peaceful protests that have achieved much..and keeping a couple of libraries open doesn’t count.

I’m talking about the big protests there have been recently say last 10 years. iraq war, hmm that worked.. hundred of protests in support of palestine have done heehaw to change government policy, student protests don’t seem to have done much… It’s all too easy to ignore a peaceful protest that last a couple of hours and are stewarded by the police…

So you’re saying we should riot?

So you’re saying we should riot?

if you want proper change, aye seems to be the only option. although a few ‘anarchist’ riots doesn’t do anything… large scale rioting would soon make them stand up and take notice.

Does that mean we are all happy if taxes go up to avoid cuts then?

You can’t spend money that doesn’t exist

Who is this you speak off? Seems to me that nowhere near us all would be affected by and increas in top rate tax to high earners or a premium fo rthose earning iver say 200K or bankers etc. a 2.5% increase on VAT does affect us all though but hey thanks for cutting corporation tax. Mc Donalds jut got to keep more of the 30 % profit on turnover they make just ….I am sure that will help sort out this little mess.

Well I think Civil Unrest is justifiable if a government act in an undemocratic manner, as this one is, so I’m with you there.

I agree that many protests in the UK are a bit ‘tame’ actually. but at least people are able to make their protests heard, which can influence others, and potentially affect voting patterns etc. so, not completely useless.

Fear not; I think we will see much larger scale protests and even unrest, before this shower of shite are done…

Actually rioting is probably not the only option. I was talking about this the other week, say for example glasgow, there’s only so many ways in and out of it, if you had enough people it would be very easy to shut down the city centre indefinitely until demands were meet… Protesters these days seem to be a little soft in the head tbh..a bit of imagination is required. Money is the thing that talks in this world, so there’s your starting point.

Well I think Civil Unrest is justifiable if a government act in an undemocratic manner, as this one is, so I’m with you there.

And the one before. And the one before that, etc.

A few of my colleagues went. I couldn’t: been busy this weekend spending Mr Woppit’s taxes on my OTT NHS pension (and occasionally taking care of our upset and suicidal tennagers.)

18 months ago when the private sector got hammered, and lots of people lost their jobs, there were no protests.

Now when it’s the public sector’s turn there are protests.

Yes, this is a sort of troll, but I’ve been there, lost my job, spent 9 months out while also becoming a father at the same time, so I think I’ve got a right to ask the question having lived through a difficult period.

Why is it this way? Why is it that public sector workers want to fight it while the private sector just get on with finding a new job?

Thats simple.

Private sector workers lost their jobs in 1’s & 2’s, tens and twentys with a few dozen here, a hundred there etc. Lots of small firms went to the wall (my old employer was one) but not many mega-sized except Woolies maybe.
In the public sector you have huge employers, Post Office, NHS, Local Authorities. All of these have union memberships in the hundreds of thousands, these are the ones who can mobilise.
Thanks to the draconian and repressive anti-union laws in the UK, the ones that the last LABOUR Govt did nothing to address, those who lose their jobs in small numbers are often powerless to protest. Even if they are unionised their union cannot help them.

Might it have something to do with the private sector essentially benefits private interests, whilst the Public sector is about public interests?

Like, if a private company fails, it affects people financially mainly, but if hospitals have funding cut, people’s health is at stake?

Maybe a bit simplistic, but I’d say public interests are a tad more important than private ones. And holes left in the private sector can usually be filled in pretty quickly by someone else. This isn’t the case with the public sector. A health centre or something closes down, it stays closed down.

Drop the 18 week NHS target for a start – the amount of extra money needed to meet it is bonkers.

And most (not all) do not NEED to be treated that quickly…

I find it quite ironic that a good many of the coppers there today probably feel exactly the same as the protesters about the cuts.

The private sector in general are so bloody selfish and don’t demonstrate as long as they are alright jack. Dismiss unions as only for lefties and have been happy to reap the benefit whilst others have struggled

Many public sector workers are traditionally badly paid and only stayed where they were because they hoped to get a decent pension and some job security.
Everyone automatically thinks of highly paid civil servants, not the road sweepers, hospital porters and dinner ladies of this world.

Another thing;

If a private company goes bust, then that’s that. Or if the owners want to close a branch down or something, the employees can’t do anything as they are pretty much at the mercy of their employers.

The government don’t ‘own’ the public sector. Major difference. We all do. So, if the government want to make cuts, then they have to consider the needs of the people. That’s what democracy is all about.

The government doesn’t have the right to make these proposed cuts, as they will have detrimental effects on vast numbers of British people. It’s just that this bunch of self-serving scum don’t have the balls to piss their wealthy mates off by imposing heavy taxes on the rich…

And for anyone who says ‘oh but there’s no money’, balls,. have a look around you. Is this a ‘poor’ country? Is it heck. There is money around, it’s just a matter of prising it from the grasp of the few, for the benefit of the many…

I find it quite ironic that a good many of the coppers there today probably feel exactly the same as the protesters about the cuts.

My wife was down on Oxford St today (needed to buy something, didn’t realise the protest march was on…) Anyhoo, she spoke with a riot bobby to find out what all the fuss was about and he said (after explaining the situation etc) just exactly that, ie. that he’d have been in there protesting as well if he weren’t working…

Elfin who do you think pays for the public benefits in the first place? The money doesn’t just magically appear. Private companies serve private interests AND public interests. It’s called tax.

tax greed appropriately.. or the general population will eventualy get pissed off with it all..

Just seen the riots, bloody idiots.
I cant believe ed Milliband has the nerve to stand there and talk about money after his lot nearly bankrupted the country.

I dont have any answers its just a giant sh*t sandwhich and I’m afraid we all have to take a bite.

Private companies serve private interests AND public interests. It’s called tax.

**** right an’ all. And it should be much higher.

How can we live in a country where a few have unimaginable wealth, yet there are hundreds of thousands without adequate housing, education, health care etc?

And don’t tell me it’s cos they’ve ‘worked hard’. The hardest workers in this country aren’t the best paid, so that tired old cliche is a crock of poo.

Does that mean we are all happy if taxes go up to avoid cuts then?

cant speak for others but yes if it was the right sort and not one that hits the poorest hardes….. oh hang on….

Elfin you’re basically a communist right? I mean that’s perfectly ok of course but I kind a thought that the world had established that it doesn’t work.
I know a few people who fall into the category your identify ie the very rich and uniformly they all work silly hard. I also know other people who work in the public sector and also work silly hard. It’s just life. You make choices you live with them and try to be happy. Not easy but then life isn’t easy is it.

It’s just life.

bollo..

tax greed appropriately.. reduce the wages of super earners.. make that system ‘just life’..

Why is it that public sector workers want to fight it while the private sector just get on with finding a new job?

are you asking me why you dod not protest i dont know?

Private companies serve private interests AND public interests. It’s called tax.

why do we need tax if they are so keen on serving the public interest? Bournvile was the exception not he norm of the capitalist system. why do we need to legislate and why do so many go the the lengths of tax aviodance , trusts , off shore accounting etc if thay are serving a public need? Obviously these companies gain nothing from educated healthy employees who are able to travel on roads to their workplace etc?
EDIT: Can we have a seperate thread on communism please and there are no true communistoin here that I am aware of and just because someone is very left wing they do not automatically become a communist.
We could have a long debate as to why the eastern bloc failed of which communism [ or more accurately state planning] would be but one reason, oppresssion , spending all their money on bombs, being poor to start with etc. I suspect if you give me Suadi Arabi and their oil revebue I can show you a very succefyul communist country given the huge diparity between GDP and average wage and the shockingly low life expectancy [ lower than Cuba and China for example]. I can also show you Ireland, greece, Portugal the intervention to save the banking system the corner stone of capitalism – where state intervention has been required and you can tell me how succesful the capitalis model is.

Why is it this way? Why is it that public sector workers want to fight it while the private sector just get on with finding a new job?

Because those in the private sector are conditioned to operate as an individual.

And don’t tell me it’s cos they’ve ‘worked hard’. The hardest workers in this country aren’t the best paid, so that tired old cliche is a crock of poo.

+1.

I cant believe ed Milliband has the nerve to stand there and talk about money after his lot nearly bankrupted the country.

I seem to remember that it was the financial sector that nearly bankrupt the country, and that debt was passed over to the Government from it. While the previous Government were not hot on regulation, the current lot in power were calling for less regulation. I can’t find an ideal world with no hypocrites in it.

Elfin you’re basically a communist right? I mean that’s perfectly ok of course but I kind a thought that the world had established that it doesn’t work

And capitalism does ? I think that rather depends on your worldview and how much evidence you are prepared to ignore.

As is the assumption that communism doesn’t work.

Elfin you’re basically a communist right?

Wrong.

I kind a thought that the world had established that it doesn’t work.

Again wrong.

I know a few people who fall into the category your identify ie the very rich and uniformly they all work silly hard.

Nurses, are they?

I’m sure that all those protesting in the public sector are not doing so in pure self interest. Those that work as health professionals, with the disadvantaged and disenfranchised have seen their ability to do their jobs and make a difference eroded by creeping cuts. Job freezes in the public sector have meant that those who’s responsibility it is to look after those most in need are stretched incredibly thinly. Dismissing protesters as loony lefty types is vacuous and patronising. The fact is we live in a country where an eleven year old can be a primary carer for a disabled parent and pensioners cannot afford to heat their homes, yet the mega rich employ companies with the express purpose of tax avoidance.

Social responsibility or the politics of envy? Hmmm.

My employer did two rounds of redundencies with 10% of all staff going each time, I know lots of others that went through the same thing. It’s just the public sectors turn, sure it sucks, but that’s life.

BTW can someone explain to me why someone being well paid automatically means they didn’t work as hard as a nurse/fireman/council employee?

At the risk of no doubt attracting some adverse comment, here we go! I’m a senior police officer and despite having to do the job with at least 20% less people than I was a few months ago, my colleagues and I have just found out that we will be receiving a real terms 20% pay cut and are likely to have to work 10+ years longer to receive the pension we pay 11% superan’ over 30/35 years service. And to cap it all, this Government expect us to police friends in similar situations at protests such as today’s. B***tards!

Go on fill your boots!

elbent, I’m no expert but didnt the Labour Party overspend year after year? Didnt Brown sell all our gold (cheap!)? Yes the bankers did more than their bit but Labour bailed them out to the tune of billions.

Let us not forget the worker from the treasury who left the note saying ‘theres no money left, good luck’

I cant be doing with any of them, red, blue or yellow, all lying, cheating, nest feathering ego maniacs.

Why is it this way? Why is it that public sector workers want to fight it while the private sector just get on with finding a new job?

Because private sector workings think, “Phew least it’s not me” Public sectors think “Hold on that’s not right”?

The government doesn’t have the right to make these proposed cuts, as they will have detrimental effects on vast numbers of British people.

Like it or not, they were voted in democratically following an election run according to the law of the land at the time. Whether that law is fair or not, whether PR or whatever would be fairer is irrelevant. There was (AFAIK) no voting fraud. Which basically means they do have the right to make these cuts. They’re the elected government.

well, It’s Saturday, the sun was out and I was riding me bike on some nice North Wales natural type trails with some likeminded types. I know, I know, I should’ve jetted to London. Can I not just write a disapproving letter or send David Cameron a shit in a box?

Like it or not, they were voted in democratically following an election run according to the law of the land at the time.

That does not mean however, that they should not be held to account. Democracy is not something to worry about every five years. The idea that we have collectively made our choice and should all be quiet and let them get on with it, doesn’t wash I’m afraid. How much of what they are doing was spelt out to the millions of Lib Dem voters before the election?