I tried to return a faulty electrical item to John Lewis which stopped working at 10 months old (fairly expensive Twinkly™ tree lights).

The customer service assistant first tried to fob me off by saying that anything with a bulb was only covered for 30 days, which I argued against.

Then she said that as they were more than six months old I would need to prove the fault was there at the time of purchase with an independent report.

Given the cost and inconvenience of such a report, wouldn’t this work for any shop and allow them to cut their effective responsibility for faulty items down to six months?

So much for the famed customer service of John Lewis.

(I did get a solution, eventually – spoke to American Express who agreed with me and gave an immediate refund)

I thought most things had at least 12 months (if not then it should have been made clear at point of purchase ?).
Should have asked to speak to a manager whilst you were there for a better explanation . Sounds like the CSA may need further training.

(Were you trying to get a refund ? They presumably have to get them repaired under warranty for you . Someone with a bit of common sense would realise that it would be cheaper all round to give you a new set. But they wouldn’t give you your money back). Sounds like you did well there with American Express

Sounds like the CSA may need further training.

Sounds like CSA has been fully trained in shop policy rather than retail consumer law .

Sounds like CSA has been fully trained in shop policy rather than retail consumer law .

I edited my post, as after reading the first post I realised the op was trying to get his money back ( I think) rather than get them repaired under warranty.

More than 6 months old they can replace, refund or repair. It’s up to them to repair them though.

Sounds like you got an employee who was getting mixed up with the time periods.

Sounds like you got an employee who was getting mixed up with the time periods.

No, it sounds like the staff member is sticking rigidly to shop policy & the law. There’s a good primer on MSE that it’s worth reading & understanding.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/consumer-rights-refunds-exchange/

After 6 months it’s on YOU (when we are talking about Consumer Rights Act) to prove a pre-existing fault. Yes, it’s a lot easier if it’s a common fault which has already been documented.

Might be worth emailing or talking to someone higher up if you want some JL goodwill, perhaps the customer service staff member doesn’t have the scope for any leeway.

yes, you can reasonably expect that items should last longer than 6mo, but up to 6mo it’s assumed the fault must have been inherent, after 6mo it isn’t and it can be argued that the fault developed with time, due to wear and tear or your misuse of it, which they may ask you to prove.

Twinkly tree lights would be an interesting one, as a date limited warranty isn’t really reflective of being used for a few days at 12mo intervals…..

The 12mo period is frequently cited as being statutory, but realistically an item with virtually no moving / wearing parts should last way longer and you can argue that you have an expectation for it to last longer – but that’s harder to do after 3 years when it goes wrong than at point of sale….when being given the hard sell on a warranty for something I’ve asked why I need one – and when they say that if it goes wrong a year after buying it I’ll be covered.

I’ve then told them if it goes wrong in a reasonable period I’ll be back playing merry hell irrespective of what the date is. And if they can’t accept that then they shouldn’t be selling items they can’t give a reasonable guarantee on, and I’m not going to buy it on that basis either. If they then say it won’t go wrong I’ll ask why i need the warranty, or for them to give it to me FoC then?

Irrespective of whether the warranty has run out they also have an obligation within reason to offer to repair (or replace) – but they may charge you for this or in the case of replacement expect you to pay towards the use you’ve had out of the product in the meantime.

No, it sounds like the staff member is sticking rigidly to shop policy & the law. There’s a good primer on MSE that it’s worth reading & understanding.

Sounds like it’s me getting mixed up with the time periods, I thought it was 12 months before the consumer had to prove the fault.

Consumer rights aside, I thought JL offered a two year warranty on electrical goods?

As for consumer rights:

Goods have to be of acceptable quality. I’d argue that something relatively expensive for what it is should be lasting longer than this has. You can claim against this up to six years from purchase, not twelve months.

“Twelve months” has no bearing on anything in consumer law, it’s simply the typical length of time for a manufacturer’s warranty to last (and this is an addition to your statutory rights, not instead of them).

Flaperon – JL warranty on all electrical items is 2 years; they made and implemented that policy change 5 or 6 years ago.
JL employee has sought to rely on UK legislation which is the minimum a customer is entitled to; retailers and manufacturers are free to offer more or better.
If it was me, I would go to store and insist on talking to store manager to explain politely but firmly my dissatisfaction with response from shop floor assistant and concern that they did not understand this important part of the JL customer commitment. Explain that this experience has coloured your view of JL and ask what they will do to remove this very negative impression.
You would be surprised at the discretion a store manager has.
Also worth mentioning that American Express responded positively and immediately to resolve the problem.
Let us know how you get on.

Why would you go back to the store when you’ve received a refund? Other than to look and sound like a bit of an arse?

Consumer rights aside, I thought JL offered a two year warranty on electrical goods?

they do, but there is a specific exclusion for “novelty” lights (including chrimbo lights). Which is weird as it’s like they’re saying “yes we know these are shit and will def break” 😂 So probably best to get them somewhere else!

If it was me, I would go to store and insist on talking to store manager to explain politely but firmly my dissatisfaction with response from shop floor assistant and concern that they did not understand this important part of the JL customer commitment.

you’d probably look a knob tho when he pointed out the above 😂

drac – reasons to return to store:
– JL unlikely to check if card provider made a refund so opportunity to ‘double dip’
– JL likely to make an effort to restore OP’s confidence in them
– JL would want know if staff are mis-stating warranty coverage
Not exactly being an arse; maybe you just accept the minimum.

zilog – your two posts are inconsistent.

JL unlikely to check if card provider made a refund so opportunity to ‘double dip’

You mean commit fraud?

The “minimum” being receiving a refund instead of attempting to defraud the retailer?

Surely most items have some sort of warranty.. normally at least 1 yr.
Maybe I’m repeating what others have said but it’s my understanding that the vendor has to deal with any issues in the first 6 months ( repair,replace,refund) unless they can prove it wasn’t faulty when you bought it , which is virtually impossible. After that they can ask you to contact the manufacturer with regards to warranty issues and then there’s added , more complex rights as detailed in a post above. Many business ignore the rules and hope people will be put off returning stuff. Many staff in my local Aldi for example thought it was only 30 days they were responsible for… after that they told me to contact the manufacturer ..which is bull sxxt. Even the managers pretended not to know the law …perhaps the businesses often don’t educate their staff on these issues and deliberately so.

After that they can ask you to contact the manufacturer with regards to warranty issues and then there’s added , more complex rights as detailed in a post above.

No. It’s the retailer’s responsibility under consumer law. A manufacturer may offer an additional warranty, but the retailer cannot refer you to the manufacturer because you have no contractual relationship with them. It may of course be better / easier for you to try that route but that’s your choice not theirs.

Many business ignore the rules and hope people will be put off returning stuff.

I’ve said many times on here now, but I’ve had great mileage over the years from the statement, “just so we’re clear, can you please confirm that you’re refusing to honour my statutory rights?”

zilog – your two posts are inconsistent.

if you know the difference between a manufacturers guarantee and your legal, statutory rights it makes sense. 😀

Warranty is the word you’re looking for there.

Nah

https://www.johnlewis.com/customer-services/guarantees