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  • Faulty ebike – What are my rights?
  • Premier Icon yorkshire89
    Free Member

    I’ve been having issues with my ebike and wanted to check what my rights are. I’ve had a quick look at the consumer rights act 2015 but I’m not too familiar with it all… I’ll try an keep this brief.

    Timeline
    18.08 – Purchased ebike online from bike shop (200 miles away)
    11.09 – Bike arrives
    07.10 – Handlebar controls to change power mode fail mid ride and assistance stuck in ‘off’
    08.10 – Bike shop order replacement and post out to me. They also mention the bike had the wrong Q factor cranks fitted from new and to check for damage. They order new cranks which arrive 2 weeks later. I do have some minor damage to chainstay and chainstay protector but can still ride the bike, and mention this to bike shop.
    03.11 – Main display on handlebars fails mid ride, turned off and won’t turn back on (no assistance). Retailer asks me to contact distributor to resolve. Distibutor mention this should be done through the retailer but agree to help to reduce delays. I post the display off to them to run diagnostics. I also send photo’s of the frame damage.
    18.11 – Replacement display arrives
    12.12 – Replacement display dies mid ride. It turns off if you stop for 5 minutes but won’t turn back on. The power button doesn’t click as normal, turns out a piece of grit got behind the button and I had to spend the best part of an hour with a paintbrush to get it working again. I order a silicone cover to stop it happening again.
    27.12 – Drive to local woods to ride – when I get there I can’t fit the battery because the key locking mechanism has frozen solid. The bike now has to stay in the house overnight before a ride when its cold.
    31.12 – Email from distributor to say they’ve ordered a new rear triangle but there could be 6 month delay blaming covid.
    09.01 – Motor assistance cuts off mid ride. The display is on but no battery % or speed shown. Suspect it’s a wiring fault

    The cable dropper post it came with also never felt good from new. It has a couple of fairly tight bends routing through the frame and after snapping 2 cables in a month and feeling like my thumb was going to snap using it. I replaced it with a reverb.

    I’ve sent the retailer an email listing all the faults and mentioned I have no trust in the bike after getting stranded mid ride a few times. I’ve said I would like a refund but I’m unsure what my actual rights are. The bike shop havn’t seen the bike since they sold it to me, but have replaced multiple parts in that time.

    Retailer wants me to post the bike back to them to assess and see where we go from there, but said under their warranty terms I would have to pay for this myself. Looking at CRA 2015 this should be covered by them for a faulty item?

    So do I have any right to get a refund on the bike, or should I post the bike back and let them fix the issue?

    Premier Icon mudfish
    Full Member

    Good luck

    Premier Icon iamtheresurrection
    Full Member

    You’re not entitled to a full refund under CRA given it’s past 30 days, and any refund will almost certainly have deductions for use.

    Would you not rather have it fixed?

    EDIT: actually, need to double check that. Some items can’t have deductions – it’s now hopeless advice as I’m not sure on bikes 😉

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Full Member

    some of that is tough luck / not a fault

    some of it is

    sounds to me like you might have a damaged wiring loom

    check the which magazine site for advice – very good

    You are approaching the 6 month limit which is key. Up to six months its up to the vendor to prove its not a manufacturing fault, after that you have to prove it is

    Premier Icon yorkshire89
    Free Member

    I suggested a refund as I don’t really feel some of the components are fit for purpose by their design (freezing lock – I have a spare battery for bigger rides and I’m unabe to swap it when it’s cold) and I’m not sure replacing it is going to solve the issue.

    I’m aware I’m past the 30 days now though so from my understanding the retailer can offer a repair or replacement?

    Premier Icon chiefgrooveguru
    Free Member

    Locks freeze when they’re below zero and there’s moisture in them. Squirt some WD40 in it. Not sure about the rest!

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Full Member

    As the chief says – freezing lock is not a fault – its user error in my book

    Premier Icon SirHC
    Full Member

    To me that sounds like there is some issues with the PDI’ing and its not been built properly. Dont see why you should be footing the bill for poor workmanship.

    Premier Icon yorkshire89
    Free Member

    Fair point about the lock. I’m not sure it’s a user error though, there is a hole in the frame leaving the lock barrel exposed to the elements. I can try find a grommet to cover it I suppose.

    Premier Icon argee
    Full Member

    What make is it, i’d be pushing more for a local place to look at it on behalf of the manufacturer warranty, may also be worth speaking to whoever you paid via for refund via not fit for purpose route, some credit cards may do this type of thing

    Premier Icon lawman91
    Full Member

    I’ve generally found e-bikes to be some of the most poorly designed bikes I’ve seen and worked on, so many things are just after thoughts, it’s worrying. like sticking the charge point directly under the bottom bracket/downtube and having the flimsiest rubber cover you’ve ever seen. Having keys on an e-MTB is ruddy stupid too, a hang over from hybrid electric bikes and people who don’t know how to use an allen key without poking their eye out. The wiring looms can be a nightmare too. I don’t want an e-bike, I like my regular bikes more thanks, but even if I was in the market for one, no way I’d get one at the minute, the finer details and reliability are still way to patchy IMO. I doubt you’d get a full refund OP, maybe a goodwill gesture but not much more. This whole plight also highlights the world we live in regards buying online, no way would I spend that kind of money on something, knowing full well if anything went tits up I’d have to send it back or make a 400 mile round trip….

    Premier Icon sillysilly
    Free Member

    Very hard to comment without knowing make / model.

    If it’s a anything from any of the mainstream brands like Spec / Trek etc than a straight replacement will sort and you should be fine.

    If it’s a Chinese random without Bosch or Shimano electronics if do all I could to get a refund or negotiate a trade to a model with Shimano / Bosch / Spec intervals.

    There were a few random bugs with old Shimano steps that are super easy to live with if you know workarounds. I remember one being inability to turn on if you tried to turn it one with pressure being applied to cranks. Needed to reset the main unit to sort while you were off the bike. My head was spinning trying to work out what was going on.

    Disclaimer: only used an ebike for injury recovery 😂

    Premier Icon yorkshire89
    Free Member

    Thanks for the replies/advice.

    It’s a Mondraker with Bosch Gen 4 motor / kiox display.

    Had a quick look at credit card chargeback but appears I’ve past the 120 day limit.

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Full Member

    I think it needs to go back to the shop for them to assess. Ok they have had their one chance to repair but tried to do it remotely. I do wonder about damage to connectors, corrosion, bent pins etc

    Premier Icon julians
    Full Member

    The freezing lock isnt really a fault IMO – as per other comments.

    If I read correctly – all your previous issues have been sorted, its just your latest issue (on 9th jan, power cut out mid ride) that hasnt been sorted yet?

    I think you’ll end up having to give them a chance to rectify that fault , should be easy enough for any bosch dealer to sort under warranty.

    Premier Icon argee
    Full Member

    I had the Bosch Gen4 in a cube 160, it had similar issues, it had the sensors replaced, motor replaced, etc, but still didn’t work, the shop gave me a full refund as they were sick of dealing with bosch and cube, it made me do one thing different, i bought local, from a shop 5 miles away, weirdly enough this ebike hasn’t missed a beat and i’ve purposely ragged it through winter.

    It’s a sickener and annoying, i had to wait 4 months to get the refund from failure, can’t fault the shop, they did as much as they could, but with so little stock and spares just now fixing warranty bikes seems to be low down the list for a lot of manufacturers.

    Premier Icon dangeourbrain
    Full Member

    Looking at CRA 2015 this should be covered by them for a faulty item?

    This is sort of true. *If* there is a fault you can’t be left out of pocket for the reasonable return to place of purchase (eg if you bought it mail order you’re entitled to a refund of the reasonable return shipping costs to the original supplier if you collected it in store you’re not entitled to any refund if the costs associated with getting it back there).

    Costs are reasonable, so you’re likely to get told to go jump on costs for same day shipping, 5 day return you’re likely to be fine. If you had the item delivered to an address 5 miles away then shipped/moved from there to Glasgow or Gibraltar, that’s your problem, costs should be reasonable for the 5 miles.

    The bigger issue is you only get that if there is a fault (in your case it sounds like there is but…) and that fault is established.
    Send it back at your cost, they inspect it, any fault found you shouldn’t be out of pocket for that return but if there is no fault found you’re not entitled to any refund of shipping costs – though you may get one depending on the retailer.

    It’s up to you to stump up for return I’m afraid, then get the costs refunded after they accept the fault.

    As above, 6 months is the magic number, contact them by special delivery letter and tell them you’re rejecting it.
    Expect deductions for use.

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Full Member

    27.12 – Drive to local woods to ride

    Driving an ebike to the local woods? You deserve everything you get.

    😉

    But seriously, sounds like you’ve ended up with a proper lemon. Is it a respected brand and how helpful were the distributors?

    Perhaps you could explore the possibility of credit toward a newer model?

    Premier Icon Daffy
    Full Member

    THIS is why my MTBs will remain clockwork for as long as I’m able to pedal them.

    Sorry to hear of your woes OP – I hope you get it sorted to your satisfaction. Vaseline in the lock barrel and latch will stop it freezing/rusting.

    Premier Icon yorkshire89
    Free Member

    @chakaping – I know right, I’ve become so lazy since getting the ebike!
    The distributors were ok to start with but I think they got sick of me after a while and just said deal with the retailer.

    Just to update – I suggested sending my bike to the local Bosch service centre to look at since I don’t fancy a 400 mile round trip twice. Retailer were happy for me to do that but said I may have to pay labour.

    Rang LBS, they can look at it in a couple of weeks but said they will need to be paid in full. They do this quite often for their own customers and said they will always pay for the full amount and claim back what they can. I’ll see if retailer is happy to do that.

    Premier Icon julians
    Full Member

    I’d be ok with agreeing to pay in full if no warrantable fault is found, given your description of the issue its not an intermittant fault that comes and goes, its clearly broken and therefore easy to demonstrate, and its clearly something that is part of the bosch system that is broken (ie you’re not going to have bosch pointing fingers at mondraker and vice versa) , so it’ll be fixed under the bosch warranty and you wont have to pay anything.

    Premier Icon yorkshire89
    Free Member

    This is painful. Retailer not happy to pay for any costs at my local Bosch centre because they don’t have a relationship with Mondraker/silverfish.

    They just want the bike back with them but won’t accept any postage costs.

    I’m going to speak to silverfish again and see if they can help me out themselves.

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Full Member

    That I believe is correct in law – if found to be a manufacturing fault they will have to reimburse you

    Premier Icon TroutWrestler
    Free Member

    I have Specialized Levo. It has had issues. The local Specialized dealer, who I didn’t buy it from, have been great. If I was buying again, I wouldn’t buy mail order.

    Premier Icon y0eddy
    Free Member

    Have you tried turning it off and on again?

    Premier Icon Sanny
    Full Member

    Being pragmatic, I would suggest that the simplest solution would be to send the bike back to the shop and give them the opportunity to deal with it for you. You are most likely going to have to do that at some point so why prolong the experience by holding out for them to arrange and pay for collection. You won’t get a refund without returning it so why not make life easier and less stressful for yourself?

    On a slight tangent, I do wonder about the long term impact of e bikes being stored in sheds and garages in sub zero winter temperatures for an extended period. Has anyone had any experience of this?

    Cheers

    Sanny

    Premier Icon Tracey
    Full Member

    Been running ours from 2017, Levos, stored in non heated garage, sometimes sludgy, sometimes a bit wet. Not had a problem with the cold. Batteries keep their charge. They only get the same amount of fettling as the other bikes. Have ridden then throughout the winters and had no difference in performance.

    Premier Icon julians
    Full Member

    No issues so far with my ebike stored in unheated garage, it gets the same amount of attention as more normal bikes.

    Premier Icon transporter13
    Free Member

    Like above.. Focus jam2 here with e8000 motor and also left in the shed with no issues in near 2 years. I do keep the charger indoors as I’ve read reports of them being temperamental with charging in below 5c temps.

    @yorkshire89 are you on emtb forums under the same username who had the rear end crack on their frame? If so then you’re not having much luck

    Premier Icon Poopscoop
    Full Member

    Wow, what a cluster fudge.

    Sounds like it will be going back to the retailer even if that isn’t the best/desired option. They need to go through it with a fine tooth comb from the sounds of it. I come from an electronics back ground (many moons ago) and I have deep reservations about having too much electrics on my own bikes. That said, if done well they should be relatively problem free.

    It’d be tempting to sell it on apart from the losses involved but you are likely selling a lemon and apart from the moral side of that, you’ll possibly get an irate buyer on your back looking for a refund, ironically.

    Good luck sorting it though op.👍

    Premier Icon damageandy
    Free Member

    Mate stop dragging your feet and wasting time, just send it back to the shop and tell them they will have to reimburse you the shipping costs as per Consumer Right Act…… when they find the fault.

    Let them check it over and then decide if you want to try and reject it and get a refund minus reductions.

    And then remember never buy another mail order bike again – like so many of us have realised after having faults.

    Premier Icon clubby
    Full Member

    And then remember never buy another mail order bike again – like so many of us have realised after having faults.

    Wasn’t as easy as that sounds last year. When I was in position to buy my ebike, no one local has stock. Got mine mail order but shop does have a branch 50 miles from me when the inevitable happens. Don’t think I’d have bought from 200 miles though.

    To the op, just get it sent back to the shop. That’s who your contract is with, not the manufacturer or distributor. Sounds like more going on than a controller fault. Replacing another unit on its own won’t solve anything. Could be as simple as a loose connection or worse like a broken wiring loom. Needs fully investigating.

    Premier Icon julians
    Full Member

    A lot people say dont buy an ebike from a dealer miles away/on the internet etc, but IMO its not as clear cut as that. Often there are big discounts to be had by shopping around, saving a lot of money (ie £1500+ off an ebike). If you go in with your eyes open and a pragmatic attitude it can be very worthwhile to buy from afar. Clearly if you can get the same deal locally then you should buy locally, but when the savings for buying from afar are so huge, it’d be silly to pay full price and stay local (if thats even an option), it up to you to judge how big the price difference needs to be to make buying from afar worthwhile.

    I saved £1500 by buying my ebike from a shop in germany – There actually werent any of the bike I wanted in stock locally, and nobody else in the country would get close to the german price . Shortly after I got it the display packed up (like yorkshire above), I reckon I left he USB port cover slightly open when I washed it and water got in. Took it to the local bosch dealer, it was sorted in about 3 weeks from when the fault occured. I didnt want any downtime though, so I bought a new display unit on the open market to get me up and running whilst the broken display went through the warranty process, then sold the warrantied display when it arrived. It cost me about £30 to do this, still massively up on the deal compared to buying local.

    Premier Icon yorkshire89
    Free Member

    @transporter13 – yeah that’s me. The rear triangle isn’t cracked but does have some minor damage because it was delivered with the wrong Q factor crank arms.
    New rear triangle has been ordered by Silverfish but can’t give a delivery date.

    I’ve given the bike another look over and now the handlebar controls (that the retailer replaced) seem to have the same fault again. According to CRA I should be able to reject the bike for a full refund on this fault alone since I’ve not owned the bike for 6 months.

    I don’t trust the retailer to do the right thing here regarding fault finding, so have booked it in at my local Bosch service centre to carry out diagnostics.

    I will return the bike to the retailer once this is done. They keep telling me they need to assess the bike themselves and may dispute my claim.

    Premier Icon chevychase
    Free Member

    Stop mincing about. Back to the shop with it.

    Then my advice would be reject > get a non-motor bike.

    From your own mouth ebikes are making you lazy, so it’ll be a while till you get back all that fitness you lost.

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Full Member

    I will return the bike to the retailer once this is done. They keep telling me they need to assess the bike themselves and may dispute my claim.

    They are correct. Unless the bosch centre can find and will state categorically its a manufacturing fault. You are going to end up seriously out of pocket here because you refuse to follow the correct procedure.

    Whatever your local bosch service centre charge – that down to you to pay. Then because someone else has tinkered with it your chances of getting the retailer to do anything are greatly diminished

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Full Member

    that the retailer replaced

    From what you said the retailer supplied them but you fitted them! You have not given the shop the one chance to repair that they legally get. They have tried to help you out by remote diagnosis and sending you bits to try

    if i were them i would simply tell you to do one

    Remember i am usually on the side of the buyer on this stuff but there is a process to follow and IMO the retailer has gone above and beyond

    Premier Icon julians
    Full Member

    so have booked it in at my local Bosch service centre to carry out diagnostics.

    I’d imagine that the local bosch dealer will now diagnose the fault and and get it fixed under the bosch warranty, which should cover all your/local bosch dealer costs, then all will be right with the world again – until something else breaks.

    That is my experience of using a local bosch dealer (that I didnt buy the bike from) to fix a problem with my bosch bike.

    I think bosch are pretty good, and their warranty terms are pretty generous, so I’d imagine they will get it sorted. I think though that once they get it fixed, you’ll not get very far with trying to reject the bike, but the original retailer may offer to buy it back off you at market value (maybe plus a bit for good will).

    Premier Icon Sanny
    Full Member

    Tj has hit the nail on the head. You could be spending money that you don’t have to and may not get back.

    From your postings, it reads like the shop has acted reasonably with you and have been supportive. Without seeing it, their ability to fix it for you is materially impaired.

    Going in quoting statute is a great way to drive a wedge between you and the shop. Let’s say you decide to go legal and raise an action. A Sheriff (my experience is based on Scots Law) will look at your actions to attempt to resolve it and one of the first questions will no doubt be, did you send it back to them?

    You’re not really doing yourself any favours if you don’t give the shop the chance to try and sort this for you. Going on a forum and posting that you don’t really trust them to fault find isn’t exactly a great route to conflict resolution!

    The consensus is send it back. Anything else is just delaying the inevitable and potentially throwing away money.

    Cheers

    Sanny

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