I have limited mileage on my Pugsley which, after buying , I refurbed completely and fitted with 4.8 Jumbo Jims ghetto tubeless ( 120 tpi ).
They rode very nicely at high and low pressures but obviously lacked grip for winter so today I swopped over to some used 4.0 Surly nates ..again tubeless and 120 tpi.
On my first test ride today the bike felt disappointing … i was expecting a noisier and more draggy ride but not the much harsher ride unless the pressures were very low .
I understand (of course) ..they are lower volume but even off road they felt considerably harsher ..almost as though the frame was stiffer , and I felt far more jolted about .
Is this to be expected as I was quite surprised ? I suspect the Nates may be originals from 2015 but they felt reasonably flexible …although they were a nightmare to get inflated .
I also am not so well at the moment ( as usual ) and wondered if I was just overly sensitive ?
Finally…the bike felt so low ( compared to running 4.8’s ) which again I didn’t particularly like , but that may be because most of my riding is done on a 29 plus shod surly ogre ( which , again surprisingly , I actually find more comfortable ) Before riding a fatbike, I had assumed they would be a lot more plush , but that’s not really my experience from now owning one.
Pressure wise 8 psi both ends felt quite harsh .
Any advice /comments welcome ..thanks in advance , Bill

if you were riding near me I’d say it’s because the ground is like permafrost, all the hoof/foot/tyre prints are solid and I got battered riding over them on 2.4 tyres.

I’ve always found nates to be disappointing in mud, but then not many fat bike tyres are great in proper clay like stuff I get locally

Are you comparing 3.8 nates to 4.8 Jumbo Jims? If so they could feel harsh and yes they are smaller so will feel it.
Possibly a bit less air would help depending on your weight. I am racing snake shape so run mine at 5psi and not noticed any harshness.

I noticed the difference immediately even on the road ..where obviously the hardness never varies ..otherwise I see your point . Yes I am comparing 4.8 JJ’s and 4.0 nates but at the same pressures (or even a fair bit lower) ..the nates feel much harsher . I wondered if the sidewalls on the JJ’s are much more supple ..hence the difference . Just surprised really…. and comfort is very important to me despite riding only rigid these days .

Your initial assessment may be correct. I once bought a set of Schwalbe Marathon Duremes for my tourer. They immediately felt sluggish and uncomfortable.

I replaced them with Vittorio Hypers in the same size Much more comfortable. I confirmed my subjective feelings with timed roll down test on a local hill. The Duremes were around 10% slower at the same pressures.

Supple tyres feel more comfortable regardless of pressure IMO.

Nate’s are slightly harsher than a bigger tyre, especially in the hard ground we have at the moment. But Nates have massive amounts of predictable grip in mud compared to JJ’s – 7yr old worn Nates prob not so much though. I swapped from JJs to Nates after the first winter of using them. JJs are good tyres for 75% of the year imo.

I’ve now got al mighty’s which seem to have as much or more grip than Nates but with better rolling resistance, & the size advantages of a large fat bike tyre, but all the weight disadvantages.

JJ’s ifI recall have paper thin sidewalls and micro knobs as tread the Nates are a bit more robust with solid rubber sizeable blocks as tread and thats what you may be feeling. Especially as RD suggests, its permafrost.

Summer 4.0 JJ’s, winter for me is Maxxis FBF / FBR all tubeless.

I also wondered whether the freezing temperatures would further stiffen the tyre and that might be contributing also …particularly as the test ride was only a few miles and fairly slow so not much time to warm up the rubber . Now I think about it the Nates did feel much stiffer and rigid before mounting . I’m not sure if new 24 tpi Nates feel the same or are softer and more supple . They would have been difficult to fold up certainly …maybe it’s the age but the knobs weren’t rock hard .

@rickmeister I find the minions in plus size quite sure footed in the mud how are the fat ones?
Do you go slideways in the mud?

monkeyboyJC … I am interested in the al mighty’s .. was considering them or some Bud/ lou but unsure whether they’d fit in my frame which is very tight with 4.8 JJ’s on Marge lites. Do you have experience of both ? Also …are the al mighty’s noisy on road ? Thanks ,Bill

I have old 60tpi Nates and 4.4 Jjs.
The Nates carcass is stiffer and the knobs much less squishy than Jjs.
I’d say they do give a more wooden ride feel.
I think it’s a combination of size/relative pressure, rubber/carcass compound and construction and my Nates are from around 2016 so rubber may have lost a bit of squish.
Nates tread has lasted a long time and much longer than the previous set of 4.0jjs.

 I am interested in the al mighty’s .. was considering them or some Bud/ lou but unsure whether they’d fit in my frame which is very tight with 4.8 JJ’s on Marge lites. Do you have experience of both ? Also …are the al mighty’s noisy on road ?

They  apparently come up smaller than Bud/Lou but I’ve no personal experience. And they are no noisier than Nates or similar.

“Wooden” was the word I was looking for .. thanks .

I like the Minions and they do work well. IMHO, for mud, a narrower tyre will push through gloop better than a wider one, wider gives more float. JJ’s were terrible in snow and mud but looking at them that shouldn’t be a surprise. No deep knobs and a lot of flat smooth surface rubber.

Minions seem to find grip and clear well. Other tyres are well rated too. Just what I have.

As the yanks say, there ain’t no substitute for cubic inches.
The volume difference when you see a 4.8 next to a 4 is pretty significant.
I think the Nate is only 60tpi too iirc, which might make it a bit less supple.
Bud front, JJ rear ftw.

The nate’s a very old tyre now, I really didn’t like ’em. I guess they’re maybe really good for proper fatbiking, which I don’t really do?

Minion FBF in 4.8 and 120tpi is fantastic for a trailbike fatbike- not spectacularly grippy in mud, they just lack the allout spikeyness but they do pretty well, far better than JJs. But they’re very supple, arguably too bouncy/reboundey but that makes for a good fun trail tyre I think, avoids that whole “stuck to the ground” thing of the Bud frinstance.