Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 49 total)
  • Fat bikers….are 27.5 really a thing?
  • convert
    Full Member

    I’m contemplating a 2nd set of wheels for my Canyon Dude. It becoming my go to bike pretty much all the time (when not on a road bike or gravel bike 🙄) and fancy a second set of wheels with something smaller/lighter than the bud/lou 4.8 for summer use and times when a 4.8 draggy monster is overkill. Bike came (new to me) with 26″ wheels though I note it now comes new with 27.5″

    Thought about the new set being 27.5, or even 29+ – the frame can do either. But looking ahead to tyre choice both seem very limited. Curiously in fat tyres in the UK at least the dinosaur that is 26″ is currently still the easiest to get….for the moment. Mind you the whole fat bike thing seems to be over for most so may be it’s only dinosaurs that are interested.

    Anyone running 27.5 fatty or 29+? And how do you find tyre choice and availability.

    colournoise
    Full Member

    Not a fatty, but run 29+ ON the front of my RocketMAX. Tyre choice is quite limited, but I currently have a 29 x 3.0 DHF on there which is brilliant for what the bike is designed to do. YMMV on a ‘traditional’ fat bike.

    2024 03 03 Whats Up Woody 02

    andrewh
    Free Member

    My Beargrease is the 27.5″ version, with a 3.8 tyre it’s about the same diameter as a 2.5″ 29er.

    Tyres are ok to get hold of but rarely in the sales like 26 ones seem to be so more expensive for that reason

    steezysix
    Free Member

    What about a set of Schwalbe Jumbo Jims in 4.0″? Much faster rolling than the Surly ones you have now, and much cheaper than a second set of wheels!

    convert
    Full Member

    Yes, that’s my go to cheap solution. I’ve actually got a set of used (but not by me) JJ 4.4 that I might put on for now. But long term I quite like the idea of 2 pairs of wheels for instant switch without resetting up tubeless every time.

    kaiser
    Free Member

    I love 29+ … prefer it to full fat and tbh find it more comfortable with better rollover than any monster 4.8 tyres. I don’t think there’s a huge problem with finding 29 x3.0 or similar tyres either ..either new or used .. maybe not a huge choice but enough not to worry about it and 29 x 2.6/2.8 will still run nice too with a wide rim for increased volume . That’s just my opinion and hth’s.

    wheelsonfire1
    Full Member

    This is a fortuitous thread, I was just about to do a search. I’m looking at the Kona Wo (22) that is on offer, it’s on 26” wheels, is that going to cause problems with availability of tyres later?

    MadBillMcMad
    Full Member

    29+, 3″ tyres are awesome on a fat bike.

    Makes it a great touring / bikepacking rig. No idea on tyre availability. I’ve got some maxxis chronicles on mine.

    rOcKeTdOg
    Full Member

    Got 29+ on my smokestone, much more choice than 27.5 and means the BB is almost the same distance from the ground when running 26 fat tyres

    silasgreenback
    Full Member

    As above. I had “semi fat” Rocky Mountain Suzi. Swapped to a 29er with 2.8’s. Such a transformation!

    i wouldnt touch 27.5 if i were you. Fat bikes are pretty much over and I suspect 27.5 will go the way of 26” unless mullet turns out to be more than a passing phase.

    Northwind
    Full Member

    27.5 just never caught on, I think largely because they dropped it right near the end of fatbikes’ 15 minutes in the sun so there just wasn’t anything like enough market to support a new size.

    But also, it was a pretty specific thing that I think most people just didn’t want, or more importantly that most people couldn’t be convinced that they want. I mean, I got a fatbike because it has stupid big tyres and rides like a bouncy castle, 650b fat was the exact opposite of the point. If I wanted smaller tyres, oh, I do and that’s why I have a non-fatbike too. 29+ goes at the same thing but more effectively.

    In the end, it’s probably a useful utility thing for a few people, but most people don’t do fatbikes for useful utility reasons, and those that do, often didn’t want it.

    monkeyboyjc
    Full Member

    I liked having a set of 29+ as a spare / summer set of wheels when I only had a fat bike. Gave the bike loads more versatility.

    Never saw the point in 27.5 on a fat bike – always thought of it as a marketing exercise. You loose some of the side wall hight in the tyre of a 26″ fat and as such some of the cushion.

    I’m looking at the Kona Wo (22) that is on offer, it’s on 26” wheels, is that going to cause problems with availability of tyres later?

    Tyres have always been expensive, and over the past few years a little rare. To the point where I have bought spares. But they don’t disappear completely, there’s a high fat bike following in north America so some companies are still producing new tread patterns (WTB recently), however they are cirtainly getting more expensive.

    freddiest
    Full Member

    If I were the OP, and planning to keep the 26 fat wheels, I’d get a set of 29+. Different enough to the 26 when you want a change and will really speed the bike up whilst keeping good float (29×3.0).
    If I were buying a new fat bike now and planning to own just one setup, I’d go 27.5×4.5 bontrager barbegazi tyres. Light and fast enough with plenty of grip for most. There’s always a gnarwhal for the front if you need more grip.  I’ve found 27.5 to be different enough to 26 to be worth it where I ride.

    cojacal
    Full Member

    This photo might be helpful:

    Plus tyre sizes compared

    Plus tyre sizes compared:

    Left to Right:
    27.5×2.8 Minion DHF on 38mm rim
    29×2.3 Hillbilly on 30mm rim
    27.5×3.8 Minion FBF on 80mm rim
    27.5×4.5 Bontrager Gnarwhal on 80mm rim
    29×3.0 Bontrager XR4 on 50mm rim

    My experience is the 29×3″ Bontrager XR4 almost as tall as a 27.5 x 4.5″ Barbegazzi or Gnarwhall, so kind of rides over stuff much like the big wheels but much lighter and more agile. More grip than a Barbegazzi, less then a Gnarwhall, obvs.  29 x 3.0″ much easier to keep down on river crossings though!

    27.5 x 3.8″ Minions DHF/DHR feel smaller and lower. I only have 27.5 x 80mm rims, and they take a bit of a bashing with these tyres mounted, be better on a narrower rim I think. They ride more like a normal 29er tyre, and people don’t stare at them.

    Never really ridden 26″ fatty wheels, so can’t usefully compare.

    HTH

    dave_h
    Free Member

    So taking this on a related tangent, what relatively inexpensive rims do we recommend for 29+?

    Similar to OP, I’ve been thinking for a while of having swap out wheels to  26” on my Henderson but don’t want to pay the earth.

    scotroutes
    Full Member

    I was an early(ish) adopter of B+ and fall into that category of it being ideal for certain types of my riding – particularly long, off-road bikepacking trips. I’m currently using 27.5×3.0 Nobby Nics on Scraper i45 rims.

    I also have a Fatbike, currently 26×4.4 Jumbo Jims. As @steezysix points out, the JJ is a fast rolling tyre so might be sufficiently different to the current set up, but if another wheelset is a preference (and I know why) then I’d have thought 29×3.0 might be just tall enough to significantly affect the handling of the Canyon? And, dare I say it, your wheel/tyre choice may also be affected by whether or not you have suspension.

    If you’re interested in trying my B+ Pact (or my Fatbike) at any point, let me know.

    Mugboo
    Full Member

    My mate went 29+ on his Dude with fast rolling tyres and found it was faster with the 26″ jumbo Jim’s.

    I asked around for similar recommendations as you and JJ’s were the answer.

    I ran Minions on mine as a winter hardtail but these days it’s more bike packing on 4″ JJ’s. Although as my bike packing is once a year, I’m thinking that my Orange Crush might do that job too .

    freddiest
    Full Member

    JJs might roll well but if you want grip too then they might not be the best option, especially compared to a 29×3 tyre.

    monkeyboyjc
    Full Member

    JJs might roll well but if you want grip too then they might not be the best option

    Absolutely this – quite possibly the worst technical ‘off road’ fatbike tyre there is. Great for rides where rolling resistance is a requirement, gravel and non tech riding – awful for everything else.

    Imo JJ’s are one of the reasons people stopped using their fatbikes in recent years and the trend died out – so many bikes came equipped with JJ’s and with fatbike tyres being comparatively expensive, people just didn’t see the full benefits of a fat bike. JJ’s offer few benefits when it comes to a Fat trail bike.

    freddiest
    Full Member

    29×3.0 on a 50ish mm rim will fit a dude in the short chain stay setting.
    27.5×4.5 on an 80mm rim will fit in the long setting.
    27.5×3.8 will fit in short setting but as above I noticed more rim strikes and was less fun than the above options. A bit faster on pavement than 27.5×4.5 but less comfy and floaty.

    scotroutes
    Full Member

    Absolutely this – quite possibly the worst technical ‘off road’ fatbike tyre there is.

    Endomorph and Larry want a word with you.

    I use 4.4 JJs all year round for all conditions. They’re fine.

    steezysix
    Free Member

    I find the JJ pretty good as a trail tyre, I’d agree they don’t work in muddy conditions, but most fat tyres don’t as there’s too much float and the tyres slips sideways.

    Most issues came from people running the pressure too high, so they bounce around and don’t grip well, with low psi the tyres conforms to the ground and grip is fine!

    Mugboo
    Full Member

    No doubt the JJ is frankly scary on mud but the OP has tyres and wheels for that. For what he wants JJ’s are awesome.

    monkeyboyjc
    Full Member

    They’re fine.

    But not great? Every tyre I’ve tried has better grip all year round than a JJ, like I said though that’s not the point of JJ’s though!

    Like all tyres, fat tyres have down sides as well as ups, it’s just far more noticeable with fat bike tyres imo. Nates are ‘only’ 3.8, but make an excellent UK trail tyres, but are significantly more draggy than a JJ on hardpack trails. Minions are heavy, larger but not as grippy as a Nate. Bud & Lou are great if fully rigid, but won’t fit all frames/forks & expensive and now rare. I’ve settled on a Big Al front, heavy but loads of grip, and 45nrt Dillinger on the rear grippy, lightish but very expensive. All alternatives to JJ’s aren’t as good on rolling resistance, the most similar is a Teravail Coronado, but again that’s not great on tech trails.

    If I were the op, I’d get rid of the Bud / Lou and try a set of 120tpi 4″ or smaller tyres. Nates or if you can find them at a good price 45nrth Dillinger / Vanhelga. Probably cheaper than getting a second set of wheels and tyres and will provide a substantially different ride to the current set up.

    freddiest
    Full Member

    I’ve heard good things about surly Edna’s. I’d probably try them if I was after a 26” tyre. Very happy with 27.5×4.5 tho so won’t be going back.

    Northwind
    Full Member

    monkeyboyjc
    Full Member

    Absolutely this – quite possibly the worst technical ‘off road’ fatbike tyre there is. Great for rides where rolling resistance is a requirement, gravel and non tech riding – awful for everything else.

    Re JJs my bike came with 4.0s, I got on with them OK, but they weren’t brilliant. But 4.8s ride like completely different tyres. I used to use them front and rear all summer but eventually settled on a minion 4.8 front and jj 4.8 rear (mostly because changing tyres on my bodged tubeless is a pain) and it’s a superb combo, it’s the only bike I’m not constantly changing tyres on.

    4.0s not in their element at innerleithen dh, this was I think ride #3 on the fatbike

    View post on imgur.com

    4.8 off for a round of the Golfie.

    View post on imgur.com

    freddiest
    Full Member

    How was the Golfie on a fatty rigid?  I’ll be up there in a few weeks and it’s a choice between a 140mm hardtail and a rigid fatty.

    Northwind
    Full Member

    ****ing terrible! But also hilarious. TBH it actually suits it fairly well as so much is relatively steep-n-slow, so it doesn’t get into that really hectic out of control territory that comes with fast-and-lumpy. It’s way better at golfy stuff or inners offpiste than innerleithen dh stuff frinstance.

    Like, I remember doing flat white on it on the very first visit and it just wasn’t much fun, just lots of work and hard to go fast enough. Stuff like community service and boner was where it shone, slower than usual but just awesome. I get seriously beaten up on the longer tracks, I don’t like to stop mid run but I just can’t do stuff like the wolves or even nyny in one go on it, it gets dangerous.

    But I would 100% take the hardtail 🙂 I get to ride there often and I know the trails pretty well, that makes a big difference. I literally never take the fatbike if I’m off to some venue I don’t know as well. I think I’d have had a fairly bad time taking it down most of that stuff “blind”

    freddiest
    Full Member

    Fair enough. Thanks. HT it is then.

    puffnutts
    Free Member

    Great to see a bit of fat bike tyre chat.

    Edna front. Nate rear. Pretty much all year round on a Wednesday. I like the combination for forest debris traction, roots, magic carpet ride.

    JJs suitable for straight line dry weather non technical bike packing only.

    Big Al is tempting- but 1.7kg.

    Shopping for 26 fat tyres – there are still enough options.

    29+ is okay for finely sifted gravel and road.

    27.5+ I have not found the need. Yet.

    wheelsonfire1
    Full Member

    Well, I’ve had my Kona Wo two days now, after building and contacting Winstanley’s about problems (still to be resolved) I had a short ride on a very muddy route and to be honest the grip from the tyres (Jumbo Jims) was amazing! Same rules apply, roots at 90 degrees if possible keep it upright and low gear in deep slop. Most fun I’ve had on a bike in years…

    26” and already stockpiling tyres when I can afford, anyone with spares?

    MadBillMcMad
    Full Member

    Excellent to hear @wheelsonfire1

    With JJs, as all other fat tyres actually it’s all about tyre pressures. Small changes make big differences in rolling, grip and the tendency to wander.

    Tubeless takes a lot of patience, a few extra tricks and lots of swearing but definitely worth it

    convert
    Full Member

    Glad to hear you’re enjoying it!

    Well, I’ve bought some 29er + rims and 3.0″ tyres 2nd hand but unused as an ebay job lot – and now need to source some hubs and spokes. Am hoping this will be my off road bikepacking setup. 4.4 JJs go on the existing wheels this weekend for other duties. What I ‘really’ want is a 3rd wheelset with nice light rims for the JJs or similar so all 3 options are available without a tubeless tyre swap faff. But that”ll have to wait.

    and the tendency to wander

    Too right. I had a pair of 4.8 JJs on and used them for a beach and dune ride with very very low pressures to manage the soft dune sand. On a patch of forest track mid ride the self steer was like nothing I’ve ever experienced. Like the bike was possessed!

    wheelsonfire1
    Full Member

    @MadBillMcMad thank you for the response, I did stop mid ride and drop the pressure a bit, I will get my head round the low pressures! I’m currently getting my head round the 1X, I hate the graunching noises from the chain but appreciate the simplicity. I’m not anywhere near tubeless yet, it all depends on whether I get more punctures than a “normal” mountain bike! Is there a fatbike thread on here? I realise I’m many years late to the party!

    Northwind
    Full Member

    For me with tubeless on the fatbike it’s not really about punctures- that does definitely make a big difference on the normalbikes but on the fatbike it’s way more about weight and rolling resistance. Even a lightweight fatbike tube is hefty, and because our tyres deform so much more there’s more hysteresis ie drag, losing the tube makes a really obvious difference.

    (mostly faster to ride than people think but I find there’s essentially a top speed, where you outrun the tyre and spend rapidly more and more energy just maintaining speed. And that just happens later without the tubes)

    I mean, the puncture resistance is still a good thing, especially since fixing a flat is a pain in the baws. 1000000 strokes of teh little pump later…

    wheelsonfire1
    Full Member

    I’m enjoying my Wo on Jumbo Jims but just been thwarted going for a ride by a puncture! It was a teeny weeny thorn that had caused it, such a small hole that I’ve blown the inner tube up high and still can’t find it so going to use a bowl of water. Got me thinking of a move to the dark side – tubeless! I’ve got plenty of sealant, plenty of valves and the rims and tyres are ready. How much fluid in 26 x 4.8? And… do people inflate them high to start with and then reduce to the appropriate pressure, I realise the beads need to pop in to seal. Thanks in advance!

    convert
    Full Member

    Rims are ready……in what way? Taped up already?

    And what’s the sealant? I’ve had bad experience with fat bike tyres and cheaper sealant.

    Problem solver P nuts help.

    wheelsonfire1
    Full Member

    Tubeless ready Sun Ringle Mulefut, Vittoria sealant, cone shaped tubeless valve. The tyre bead is nice and tight on the rim.

    cojacal
    Full Member

    To set up tubeless pop the beads on first with a tube – I keep a fat tube just to pop tyres on. Soapy water and a compressor help. When properly on deflate the tube then carefully  break the bead on one side only to remove the tube and fit the tubeless valve. Plenty more soapy water and a compressor to pop the loose side back on, and make sure the whole tyre is seated on the bead. Should hold air for a good while (hours not days). Deflate and then take the core out the valve and inject sealant – I use 400ml for my biggest tyres 27.5 x 4.5.  Pump up (27.5 x 4.5″ @ 5.5-6.5 psi, 29 x 3.0″ 10-12 psi. Spin the wheel and then ride asap to pump  the sealant where it needs to be.

    One 27.5 x 3.8-4.5 tube weighs 800g. The internal friction of a tube this size at fat pressures is punative. Puncture repair problematic. I think why would anyone run fat with tubes? Why?

    convert
    Full Member

    Sun Ringle Mulefut

    You still need to tape them unless for some reason they were taped for tubeless and then used tubed. You’ll either need tape the right width or multiple overlapping widths. Isopropyl alcohol is your friend here. Given them the clean of all cleans before you start the taping.

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