Faslane

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  • Faslane
  • Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    Simple making plans just in case. However maybe it is time to boot the whinging kid out of the family home. See how long before the come back asking for more pocket money or to be let back in.

    bencooper
    Member

    The MoD are now planning to keep Faslane if Scotland becomes independent:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk-news/2013/jul/10/mod-trident-scotland-independence

    Is this the moment the Better Together campaign officially lost the plot? I’m beginning to think they want to lose the referendum.

    jockhaggis
    Member

    I hear Edinburgh is planning to do the same as it’s mostly full of ‘The English’ anyway. 😉 (me included)

    Premier Icon Stoner
    Subscriber

    Our very own guantanamo 🙂

    Maybe we could let the Scots have a reciprocal arrangement with Scotch Corner…

    Premier Icon davetrave
    Subscriber

    Stoner – Member
    Our very own guantanamo

    You never been to Cyprus – we’ve got 2 Sovereign Base Areas there already… Had our own Gitmo-style enclaves since Cyrpiot independence in the 60s, much longer than those Johhny Come Lately Yanks!

    Hmmmm but is it just faslane as in the naval base with the subs. Or is it the interesting areas of mod real estate around there as well? ‘

    Oh and I know it’s a terrible bore and so not daily mail, but there is a distinction between what mouthy and embarrassing politician want and what a lot if people who live here want.

    bencooper
    Member

    They’ll need Coulport as well – don’t think they’d need the bits up Glen Fruin.

    toys19
    Member

    Oh and I know it’s a terrible bore and so not daily mail, but there is a distinction between what mouthy and embarrassing politician want and what a lot if people who live here want.

    I have been in ABZ for the last 10 weeks, I have not met a single adult yet who is going to vote yes for independence. I think this might be because I am hanging around in engineering/oil industry circles, but I was V surprised. I thought I was going to be overwhelmed by a wave of nationalist froth..

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Will there be a UN patrolled demilitarised zone around it? I’ve heard the natives can get a touch aggressive when they’ve been at the Bucky and fallen under the influence of Australians

    bencooper
    Member

    We could swap you for Newcastle.

    petrieboy
    Member

    So long as they continue to maintain the road between gareloch head and loch long because its teh awesomes on the road bike!

    Premier Icon GrahamS
    Subscriber

    As a Jock living in (near) Newcastle – yes please!

    Great city – about the only thing wrong with it is that it’s the wrong side of the border 😀

    sugdenr
    Member

    I learned to sail at Faslane, back in the day. Fond memories of getting chased away from a nuke sub on its way in by MPs in boats.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Is that the Scottish equivalent of riding your BMX through the local shopping centre? It seems a touch ‘high-risk’.

    Premier Icon cb
    Subscriber

    I find it a bit odd that after many hundreds of years of taking, keeping and giving away bits of the planet that aren’t ours that this discussion arises now. Surely even the tories couldn’t be that stupid!

    Who was the source of this story? Wouldn’t surprise me if it turns out to be an irritating little flab ball with a fishy name. Game playing on a huge scale – he moans of English arrogance and elitism and then happily puts his fat arse in a comfy chair of the Royal Box of whatever sporting event takes his fancy!

    If the Scots go it alone, surely it’d be best to move the subs south? Jobs and investment into a rural coastal area doesn’t sound too bad to me.

    wrecker
    Member

    I’m not remotely surprised. 10’s of billions? All political parties would have a tough time swallowing that badboy. It’s only fair that the UK gives the scots something in return if it does happen. I volunteer Bridgwater. Really, it’s my pleasure.
    Does Salmond really want 6,000 extra unemployed people around faslane just for a small political victory? Is that how little he values his voters and fellow scots?

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Does Salmond really want 6,000 extra unemployed people around faslane just for a small political victory? Is that how little he values his voters and fellow scots?

    In line with every single other politician, of any colour, I’m pretty sure he couldn’t give a flying **** about how many peoples lives and livlihoods are sacrificed at the alter of his gargantuan ego

    munrobiker
    Member

    Following on from the Newcastle thing, could Northumbria, Co. Durham, Cumbria, Yorkshire and Lancashire join in? We could call it the People’s Republic of Scotland and Northern England. That’d be super (and may actually be viable, which a large part of me thinks an independent Scotland wouldn’t be).

    As for this Faslane, just more Tory fuel to encourage Scotland to clear off with all their Labour/SNP voters and ensure their reign and destruction south of the border. Dirty tactics, as they seem to be using throughout this campaign.

    I’d never vote for an independent Scotland, but don’t think it’d be the worst thing in the world if it were.

    obelix
    Member

    Wouldn’t put anything past Salmond, he is the archetypal slimy politician.

    bencooper
    Member

    Does Salmond really want 6,000 extra unemployed people around faslane just for a small political victory?

    Most of those 6,000 would stay, to service the Scottish navy vessels that would be based at Faslane. The proposal is to get rid of the nukes, not close the base.

    There’s also the small matter of the spare nuclear-powered hunter-killer subs that are currently cluttering up Rosyth because no-one knows what to do with them.

    Premier Icon GrahamS
    Subscriber

    We could call it the People’s Republic of Scotland and Northern England. That’d be super (and may actually be viable, which a large part of me thinks an independent Scotland wouldn’t be).

    I’d vote for that! (but not for independent Scotland)

    IME most northerners have more in common with the Scots than they do with southern types.

    Does Salmond really want 6,000 extra unemployed people around faslane just for a small political victory?

    Perhaps he feels that without Scotland contributing to the £20billion/whatever Trident budget there will be more money available to create socially useful jobs ?

    Of course England and Wales could do a runner after dumping the subs at Faslane, the decommissioning and cleaning up would probably bankrupt Scotland.

    Premier Icon scotroutes
    Subscriber

    I’m sure a ready buyer could be found.

    gonefishin
    Member

    If the Scots go it alone, surely it’d be best to move the subs south? Jobs and investment into a rural coastal area doesn’t sound too bad to me.

    That might prove significantly more difficult than you think. Not only do you have to find somewhere that is deep enough to actually accomodate the subs, but you then also have to convince the locals that having them is a good thing.

    That might prove significantly more difficult than you think.

    And expensive :

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk-news/2013/jul/10/costs-moving-trident-analysis

    Premier Icon cb
    Subscriber

    gonefishin – try telling the ‘locals’ that about Sellafield, jobs trump NIMBYism in many parts of rural coastline. Abersoch maybe not…

    The deep bit is a good point, preferably without too many sandbanks around.

    bencooper
    Member

    The Trident replacement is going to cost £100bn – £10bn to move them to Milford Haven or wherever isn’t that much compared to the total cost of the stupid things.

    Of course it’d be much better to scrap the lot and spend the money on stuff we actually need, not willy-waving toys.

    I’m sure a ready buyer could be found.

    For what – nuclear subs ?

    Most countries don’t have them because they don’t want them, rather than because of lack of availability.

    wrecker
    Member

    The Trident replacement is going to cost £100bn

    Where did you get that from? Even Greenpeace only put it at £34bn.
    Countries without nuke subs generally can’t afford them. They may be able to pick up some bargains at Gideons car boot sale though. Everyone loves a bargain, don’t they?

    sugdenr
    Member

    From a Surrey Hills perspective, you can declare it the Independent Republic of the grim North (North being from Watford Gap) if you like, we don’t care as we never (admit to) going there.

    But there are conditions: 1. Britannia rules the waves, so we get to keep all the offshore oil assets. 2. We are still going to send you all our (and everyone elses) nuclear waste. 3. If you want to get goods to/from mainland europe, the border toll is going to be massive to use our roads (i.e. ransom strip of land) esp. as you you wont be in the EU so we dont have to pretent to be nice to you. 4. Faslane is staying with us – just like the rock (gibralta) and the islands (falklands) – we only gave hong kong back because it was long leasehold, and we are scared of china.

    I am still open to other ‘Set the revolting northerners free’ manifesto suggetions (but from genteel southern intellectuals only). 😈

    It’s not just about water depth. Coulport is basically a hollowed out mountain where they keep the warheads.

    Most of those 6,000 would stay, to service the Scottish navy vessels that would be based at Faslane. The proposal is to get rid of the nukes, not close the base.

    Scottish Navy? What will that consist of? Faslane is basically all about the V boats. It has a few little minesweepers but they do not need the massive infrastructure and support that the subs have. You would not need 6000 people to run a small non-nuclear naval base.

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Subscriber

    Bit ironic that Salmond wants an independent Scotland to join NATO, which is based on a nuclear deterrent, but wants to kick out the local part of that deterrent….

    wrecker
    Member

    You include the maintenance costs for 30 years, and the decommissioning costs:

    well no. You said replacement, not whole life costs.

    bencooper
    Member

    well no. You said replacement, not whole life costs.

    Semantics. Replacing Trident commits us to £100bn costs, whether it’s paid up front or later.

    gonefishin
    Member

    gonefishin – try telling the ‘locals’ that about Sellafield, jobs trump NIMBYism in many parts of rural coastline. Abersoch maybe not…

    Oh I agree about Sellafield, people who already know about the nuclear industry (or any other heavy industry for that matter) are more likely to be accepting of it and the wealth it brings. The trouble is that nuclear weapons are a different matter to a power station (in people’s minds) and it is unlikely that there is a geologically suitable port for submarines in England that also has existing nuclear facility.

    wrecker
    Member

    Replacing Trident commits us to £100bn costs

    Yeah, but over 30 odd years. Hardly semantics. Anyway, it might not be your problem soon! 😀

    bencooper
    Member

    Oh I agree about Sellafield, people who already know about the nuclear industry (or any other heavy industry for that matter) are more likely to be accepting of it and the wealth it brings.

    Yes – they know the tradeoffs. Rosie’s grandfather was a senior engineer at Windscale/Sellafield, and the stories he told would make your hair fall out, but they still lived nearby.

    grum
    Member

    Following on from the Newcastle thing, could Northumbria, Co. Durham, Cumbria, Yorkshire and Lancashire join in? We could call it the People’s Republic of Scotland and Northern England.

    This +100000000000000

    Premier Icon scotroutes
    Subscriber

    FWIW, the MOD have confirmed that only 520 jobs at Faslane and Coulport are dependent on Trident.

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