Viewing 40 posts - 201 through 240 (of 307 total)
  • Fare-Dodger 'may' take legal action……
  • bobbyg81 – Member

    An illegal parker isn’t inconveniencing a whole train of people.

    round here they are – either blocking pavements or cause gridlock with the buses – I see both every day one parked car delaying hundreds of people

    ~so do I wait for the police to deal with them or do I take action myself and remove eh car even if that means damaging it – and damaging a car is less than damaging a person.

    according to you guys I Can simply take action myself removing the car and assaulting the driver if necessary

    Premier Icon thegreatape
    Subscriber

    Illegal parking is a traffic offence. Fraud is a crime. The powers available – to the police and the public – to deal with them differ. Poor analogy.

    nealglover
    Member

    TJ wrote:

    …I have intervened when needed and I am sure I will do again. Both dealing with antisocial behaviour and with stopping violence.

    don wrote:

    How can you do that without assaulting anyone?

    An interesting question, that has been asked before on another thread, and didn’t get an answer then either ??

    bigyinn
    Member

    TJ carries pepper spray at all times.

    don simon
    Member

    An interesting question, that has been asked before on another thread, and didn’t get an answer then either ??

    I very much doubt I’ll get an answer either, killfile don’t ya know?

    bigyinn
    Member

    Just think of all the knowledge you’ve missed out on DS.

    How does the killfile work again? 😆

    An interesting question, that has been asked before on another thread, and didn’t get an answer then either ??

    I did answer it. You have a defence against assault if the force you use is reasonable and the minimum required

    Some of the incidents – like restraining a guy who was attempting to beat up a woman would be perfectly reasonable, Others might not be. Do you want me to go thru half a dozen interventions over a period of decades? I would do them all again.

    don simon
    Member

    Do you want me to go thru half a dozen interventions over a period of decades?

    Please do, I’m sure everyone will be interested.

    What’s inertesting about this, isn’t the facts of the incident, it’s people’s interpretation of events. Unsurprising that certain individuals have chosen to interpret the Law to suit their own particular adgendae.

    What is perhaps not noticeable at first glance, is an undercurrent of anger within quite a few people, and a sense of frustration that things aren’t as they would like, in life. This manifests itself in the frequent displays of vitriol directed toward the target du jour, in this case those what don’t pay for things everyone else is expected to. Understandable. There’s something else on here about tube drivers pay/striking, I notice. Similar sort of attitudes in that one too.

    And I get the feeling that those condoning and applauding the actions of Big Man would themselves like to be in a position of power over others, as they perhaps don’t feel this so much in Real Life. Almost as though they need the occasional Big Man standing up to injustice and wrongness, in order to feel better about themselves. They can, for a moment, be a Big Man by proxy.

    It’s understandable that people’s initial reactions may well be to support the actions of those believing they are doing the right thing by others, but it’s important that people don’t lose sight of why the Law is the way it is. The Law is an often strange and complex beast, that at times does not in any way seem to make immediate sense, but is there mainly for the Greater Good of all citizens, without prejudice. It’s not a perfect animal, but then neither is Humanity.

    I think it’s good to step back and take in a wider perspective, wherever possible, or there’s the risk of getting sucked into a narrow tunnel of blinkered self-interest.

    And it’s helpful to take a step back, and think ‘does this really matter a great deal in the Big Scheme Of Things?’

    X

    a guy who was attempting to beat up a woman

    Attempting? So, he hadn’t actually used violence, just you thought he might, eh TJ?

    interesting 😉 Seeing has he hadn’t actually beat her up, then by your standards, that was assault!

    Come on – next example please

    Junkyard
    Member

    so by your “logic” I cannot stop an attempted murder till death occurs then or i will be done for “assault”

    that big man was lucky, ive know people get stabed for much less.

    that’s deffo don simon’s best santa smiley contribution yet

    bigyinn
    Member

    So because people aren’t happy in their own lives or feel powerless somehow it encourages agression towards those who choose not to not buy a ticket?
    Nothing to do with the fact they’re trying to get home / work / somewhere / anywhere and they’re being stopped by some little nyaff who’s a bit tired and emotional after a hard exam session on the ale.
    This is not a situation to be considering the criminal because he has “rights”, this is about the needs of the many, the people who paid their fare, sat down and behaved themselves.
    I grabbed a shoplifter in the street running away from a shop and restrained them until security arrived. I wasn’t acting under anyone’s instruction / jurisdiction. Did I assault her by doing so? I was holding her against her will in a public space after all.
    Big man removed nyaff with minimal force and prevented said nyaff from re-entering train. Nyaff runs at big man to try and get back on the train and is put on his arris, twice. Sounds fair and proportionate to me. Disproportionate would be dragging the little twerp out by his hair and puching him when he tried to get back on.

    Besides Linlithgow has the Four Marys pub, a splendid place to sit by the fire and drink some quality ale. Only a minutes walk from the Station too.

    Which of us doesn’t dream of being the caped-crusader, the avenger of wrongs, the punisher of neds…

    But we can’t be. So TJ – despite his track record of shouting at numpty driver HR bosses of organisations he finds he is leaving shortly afterwards.. is right.

    Leaving on one side the way that there are lots of documented examples of capricious and unreasonable implementation of ticket rules by ticket inspectors in the UK, the way that there was no viable way of dealing with the scrote without third party intervention is Scotrail’s problem, not its passengers, and Scotrail must expect to be exploited by scrotes and willing to backdown unless they change their system.

    Tempting though it must be to slam dunk the little git, that doesn’t exactly teach any lesson other than to carry a blade next time.

    Hopefully this assault – for that is what it was – will not result in a charge. I’d love to think the family of the scrote would be ashamed…. somehow I doubt it,

    That’s deep, Elf, very deep

    bigyinn – you and the shoplifter. IMO you are on the right side of the law there – its a fine line – and if I can without being patronising I say well done for being a pubic minded citizen.

    boblo
    Member

    You approve, that’s alright then…

    That’s deep, Elf, very deep

    Thanks, overthehill. 🙂

    So because people aren’t happy in their own lives or feel powerless somehow it encourages agression towards those who choose not to not buy a ticket?

    Yes. It’s a form of displacement; someone can be angry at someone or something, yet powerless to deal with that situation, then seek out an easier target for their rage. Bit like a bloke gets peed off at work, gets shouted at by his boss, can’t do owt, goes home to kick the cat and beat the wife.

    Or as in this case; be Big Men by proxy; fantasise about teaching No Pay a lesson. No Pay becomes a convenient target for their ire, and represents all that the person is angry with. Yet as has even bin admitted by some, in Real Life they woon’t do anything at all. Big Man represents who they’d like to be, rather than the impotent powerless individual they actually are.

    It’s also kind of similar in a weird way to you know that girl at school you used to tease her and pull her hair? Well, secretly, deep down, you fancied her…

    Don’t ask me to explain that right now I’m too tired and I’ve got some lovely tasty Chinese/Vietnamese food to enjoy. 😐

    nealglover
    Member

    Do you want me to go thru half a dozen interventions over a period of decades?

    Aye go on then, I’ve got a quiet evening.

    Elf,

    Where you see dark motives, there could also perhaps be the chance of light.

    Big Man could also attract advocates because he represents someone taking a stand against selfishness – an admirable, civic-minded act.

    To borrow a bit of Tolstoy: All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing

    bigyinn
    Member

    Actually elf you may well have a point. Perhaps if more people acted and did they may feel empowered rather than impotent.
    The trouble is the neds are usually better equipped.

    Thanks TJ, although being older and wiser I wonder if I’d do the same now?

    NZCol
    Member

    Quite frankly he’s a wee bawbag and them yoof have no respect whatsoever. I applaud the Big Guy for chucking him off. That the little bawbag decided to use force to get back onto the train, without a ticket and with no intention of buying a ticket as he had no money, then stopping him was reasonable and in the process he may have hurt himself. Good.
    If we let people get away with this sort of behaviour it becomes normalised and I for one am scared about how little respect we give each other these days.
    <engage internet hardman mode>If it was me i would have leathered the little sh1t as well</engage internet hardman mode>

    All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing

    I thought that quote was attributed to Edmund Burke?

    Elf,

    Where you see dark motives, there could also perhaps be the chance of light.

    Sadly, there is but little illumination within the souls of those who chose to stay blinkered. 🙁

    aracer
    Member

    the way that there was no viable way of dealing with the scrote without third party intervention is Scotrail’s problem, not its passengers, and Scotrail must expect to be exploited by scrotes and willing to backdown unless they change their system.

    This.

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but it wasn’t the scrote holding up 100s of people on the train, it was the ticket inspector. I have to wonder whether it’s their policy to encourage other passengers to do their job for them by acting in this way.

    NZCol
    Member

    the way that there was no viable way of dealing with the scrote without third party intervention is Scotrail’s problem, not its passengers, and Scotrail must expect to be exploited by scrotes and willing to backdown unless they change their system.

    This.

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but it wasn’t the scrote holding up 100s of people on the train, it was the ticket inspector. I have to wonder whether it’s their policy to encourage other passengers to do their job for them by acting in this way.

    So, someone says “I’m not paying”, standoff, guard gives up, train carries on, person gets off.

    So WhyTF exactly would anyone pay ever then ?

    Most fckn stupid thing i have ever read on the whole interbongo ever. Seriously. Some of you lot have your heads up your arse. Our moral and social fabric is fukked because of exactly this attitude. Someone who is prepared to stand up for decent behaviour and sensible respect gets applauded in my view.

    Premier Icon duckman
    Subscriber

    When I come to a burning building, and there are little orphans trapped inside begging to be rescued from their horrible fate… If I am scared, I just ask myself; “What would TandemJeremy do?” And I wander off to argue with dozens of people over a number of threads…. 🙂

    Most fckn stupid thing i have ever read on the whole interbongo ever. Seriously. Some of you lot have your heads up your arse. Our moral and social fabric is fukked because of exactly this attitude. Someone who is prepared to stand up for decent behaviour and sensible respect gets applauded in my view.

    Could you not have said all that without resorting to using foul and abusive language?

    Junkyard
    Member

    yes if you spoke like that in front of me I would assault you and await your applause for my decent behaviour 🙄

    Premier Icon 13thfloormonk
    Subscriber

    Our moral and social fabric is fukked because of exactly this attitude.

    What attitude is that? My attititude would be “I’ve paid a large profitable company for a train journey, therefore I don’t expect to have to get into a fight ON THEIR BEHALF because they can’t deal with a fare dodger and I want to get home on time”.

    I think big man did this for his own selfish “NEEDS” he is a bully for this, yes the boy was stupid talking to him like that, but it wasn’t for him to get up and show his masculine side now was it? And NZCOl, you sound like an idiot! Obviously the boy was in the wrong, but it could have been dealt with correctly by the police, at the station! And it would have too! Do you think big man would have “shown off” if the train dodger had been bigger than him? Hmmm, I had a stepfather like him who use to like throwing his weight around! Not a nice person, let me tell you.

    bazzer
    Member

    Fare dodger was in the wrong and his behaviour was not acceptable but neither was the Conductor. Standing there shouting “OFF OFF OFF” is not a professionally way to deal with it.

    He should have given him the three choices pay, get off or be met by BTP at the next stop.

    He will have been on CCTV etc

    No one would have been inconvenienced and life would have been good for most of the people on the train.

    Now through his actions some member of the public could be facing an assault charge.

    Just because some people behave badly does not mean we have to sink to their level.

    nealglover
    Member

    but it could have been dealt with correctly by the police, at the station! And it would have too!

    I think this has been covered already.

    Next station only a few minutes away, unmanned at that time of night and police response times would mean they would not be there to meet the train.

    So how would you deal with it without delaying everyone on the train, and no doubt other trains as a result ???

    He should have given him the three choices

    pay

    the yoof is heard on the video quite loudly saying he has no money

    get off

    thats the option the conductor offered him

    or be met by BTP at the next stop.

    we dont know if this was mentioned, but not a likely ending to scenario for reasons discussed at length above.

    try to familiarise yourself with the sources before posting.

    Premier Icon I_did_dab
    Subscriber

    A similar thing happened when I was on the train. He had a sob story about his wallet being nicked. I was feeling rather unwell and eager to get home so I gave the bloke the money for his ticket and we all got home on time. 8)

    davidrussell – Member
    He should have given him the three choices
    pay
    the yoof is heard on the video quite loudly saying he has no money
    get off
    thats the option the conductor offered him
    or be met by BTP at the next stop.
    we dont know if this was mentioned, but not a likely ending to scenario for reasons discussed at length above.
    try to familiarise yourself with the sources before posting.
    POSTED 7 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

    Exactly! No need for any macho man to intervene! He would have been caught and prosecuted and he would have been on CCTV.

    bazzer
    Member

    try to familiarise yourself with the sources before posting.

    I was quite aware of what had been said about this in the past.

    It does not matter if the BTP could be there or not, it probably would have been enough to get all but the most idiotic people off the train.

    The fare dodger was an low life and the Conductor was crap at his job. This lead to a putting members of the public in an awkward position and it did not need to happen.

    Who cares if the little git got away with it, next time he won’t when its possible to call the BTP. Sometimes you have to look at the greater good.

    If I was on the train and faced with a 1/2 delay or just getting on with it I would not give a damn if he was done or not I would just want to get home. Which I guess is the position of 90% of the people on the train.

    Exactly! No need for any macho man to intervene!

    i think we are all agreed that big man didn’t “need” to intervene, but he did. Nobody knows the exact circumstances why he did or what he felt etc, but he intervened.It was a decision he took and i’m sure he will have reviewed that decision many many times since then, not least for the amount of publicity that’s been generated since the event.

    The bottom line is that he did what he felt was right at the time. We’ll see whether he was right or wrong to do that in the eyes of the law.

    i don’t think there is much doubt though that no pay was in the wrong on several counts too, and i find his (constantly changing)version of events particularly distasteful.

    Premier Icon v8ninety
    Subscriber

    Exactly! No need for any macho man to intervene! He would have been caught and prosecuted and he would have been on CCTV.

    Wouldn’t that be lovely, meanwhile, back in the real world…

    What I’m seeing here is a sad attitude of ‘not my problem’ dressed up as legal justification. The same attitude that sees people walk on by when someone is getting abused or assaulted on the street. (Not you TJ, you’ve made that clear. You are a much more complicated case…)

    nealglover
    Member

    Who cares if the little git got away with it, next time he won’t when its possible to call the BTP. Sometimes you have to look at the greater good.

    And so when some “little git” nicks your bike in broad daylight and nobody does anything, and you moan about on here.

    Will you be ok with me saying

    “I’m glad nobody did anything to stop him, who cares if he got away with it, he’ll probably get caught next time”

Viewing 40 posts - 201 through 240 (of 307 total)

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