One of the few foreign aircraft ever bought by the USA.

It’s not really. Without the US bankrolling the development of the Kestrel (and some of the earlier test models). The Harrier wouldn’t have existed, the MOD thought the aircraft interesting, but weren’t at all ever going to pay for it. The early development/evaluation squadron of nine aircraft* was entirely funded by the Pentagon. The first Harriers may have been manufactured by Hawker Siddley , but the largest operator of the aircraft has always been the Americans, and all their aircraft were built by Mcdonnell Douglas. The AV8B which in he RAF is the GR5/7/9 series are almost entirely US designed and developed.

*W Germany was interested early on by at the end of the development programme 6 of the 9 aircraft were taken to the US for further development and testing. Most the the Harrier development came from US trails

EDIT: The B57 is probably the aircraft that best represents a UK designed aircraft used by the USAF rather than the Harrier, it’s a licence built Canberra.

From Vulcan 607:

‘In New York, the British Air Attache knew that neither Spartan or Splendid was yet on station. As he talked to the French representative after a long and very boring meeting of the United Nations Staff Committee, a Soviet Admiral brushed past him.
‘Are our submarines being of any help?’ the old sailor asked, not stopping for an answer.’

At that point the Royal Navy were still a long way from having any useful vessels on the scene, but Argentine efforts to reinforce their troops were hampered by reports in their newspapers of submarine activity off the coast.

I thought it was an excellent watch, but still didn’t come close to portraying the brutality of that conflict. Which isn’t a criticism, just an observation. I cried when I watched it, simply because that war changed my life and robbed me of a happy childhood filled with memories and joy.

Instead I got something worse, a cold silence and ambivalence.

My old man and a few colleagues were pulled from the Royal Engineer Training Wing at Bovington to deploy with 59 Independent Commando Squadron RE to operate combat engineering tractors for the Sqn, my dad was an armoured engineer by trade with specialism in EOD and Sniping, so this got him pulled into the very pointy end of things.

Some footage of the Sqn and my old man here.

The man that went away was a happy go lucky, fun dad who; the man who came home was a very quiet man who even when he was there, was always somewhere else. He left the army in 1986, much earlier than he planned (this is all learnt years later).

He has never ever spoken about his service with me, when I was a lad or when I was serving myself; he point blank refused to let me join at 17, I had to wait another year to do it without parental consent, it’s hard to describe our relationship, it seemed like he’d partially checked out; not enough to walk into the woods with a rope, but just enough that he’d given up on ever looking for joy in things.

It wasn’t until after joined and by sheer fluke met an old mate & colleague of his from that period who deployed with him while I was at the defence driving school. Terry was my B licence instructor; he saw my distinct surname and asked me if I was related to a man of the same name. The world is oddly small, as is the world of defence.

Through Terry I learned about the things my dad had witnessed and had done whilst there, So through a combination of my own experiences and listening to a man that was with him for most of his career I understood why he was this distant figure in my life, why he was so adamant I shouldn’t join and why he was the way he was growing up.

Throughout my career I’ve been able to spend time with & speak to veterans of multiple conflicts, (odd to say I am one of that group now), but the tinge of sadness that they all have is a hallmark of those who have witnessed the emotional maelstrom of human conflict and how it leaves its mark on not only those who served but generations of their families and loved ones.

Edit: some of the observations thrown in there are with the benefit of age and hindsight. I was never that astute as a kid nor as a young soldier. We all thought war was ace until we witnessed it ourselves. How naive and bloody stupid we were.

We watched this last night. It was a profound and sobering watch. The mental anguish was palpable. I’m obviously very naive as I assumed forty years would have healed their minds. How crass and wrong. Young lads watching their mates and comrades slump for the last time into distant mud.

Brave men then and still dealing with it now.

@relapsed_mandalorian – thanks for posting, I’ve nothing else to add – I think your post says it all.

@relapsed_mandalorian – thanks for posting, I’ve nothing else to add – I think your post says it all.

+1

@relapsed_mandalorian – thanks for posting, I’ve nothing else to add – I think your post says it all.

Great post.

Very sad.

Thanks @relapsed_mandalorian, what great post

Another thanks relapsed maldorian, I watched the documentary with great interest but reading your post got me thinking.

Before I was born my old man joined the RAF during the last days of military service but signed on for a longer stint to get trained up as an electrical engineer. Then he got posted to Aden, where he was installing radar units into Hawker Hunters. It was only after he died that I discovered that he had seen some things out there, not least removing body parts from returning aircraft.

Like your father, he was somewhat distant and emotionally switched off and I could never really get to engage with him, it even made me angry.

Reading your post enables me to put two and two together, especially when I hear descriptions of him as a younger person from uncles and the like that don’t quite fit with the person I knew. I had always thought that it was because that was part of his intrinsic personality and had never really considered how the Aden conflict might have affected him.

Needless to say, he didn’t talk about it much and then only anecdotal things that didn’t directly relate to the conflict.

Was good to see the men talking unimpeded and I assume unscripted/MOD approved.

The few veterans I’ve known over the years were very similar and didn’t take kindly to fools who made light or glorified the reality of killing each other. Verging on violence when asked by blood thirsty idiots to recount the events!

@relapsed_mandalorian – thanks for posting, I’ve nothing else to add – I think your post says it all.

Another +1.

We were at RAF Odiham at the time, my Dad was in 240 OCU working on Chinooks. The operational squadron, 18, were deployed, and as many know most of their aircraft went down on Atlantic Conveyor. Bloke from the house opposite was on it at the time and was awarded a medal for activities as they abandoned ship.

As an 11 year old I found it all quite exciting. I’ve read a few books on the conflict since then and I’m very lucky my Dad wasn’t sent there.

As an 11 year old I found it all quite exciting

Yep, I remember being glued to the 6 o’clock news or whenever it was back then. The famous ‘I counted them all out and I counted them all back’ quote from the journalist on the carrier (can’t recall who it was).

Brian Hanrahan

The few veterans I’ve known over the years were very similar and didn’t take kindly to fools who made light or glorified the reality of killing each other. Verging on violence when asked by blood thirsty idiots to recount the events!

Hmmm, now I feel a bit guilty.
We had a guy on a wing I worked on in HMPS who told me he was with the Paras down there (in chatting, I was his personal officer) I kind of innocently asked him if he’d killed anyone & he just said, ‘probably’.
He was known as SAS Bob outside prison but he never mentioned the SAS to anyone in jail as far as I know.

Tough watch. Good cross section of vets, all of whom were clearly affected by what they were asked, and asking others, to do.

Reading a bit more on this. I came across an account by Philip Neame, one of the guys in the documentary. One of thd nuggets in that account is that before landing they considered not packing bayonets to save weight as it was not thought there would be hand to hand fighting.

I was also concerned about how much kit we should take ashore. I spent days trying to pare it down to essentials. H. even decreed that to reduce weight we wouldn’t take bayonets as we were going to win the battle with firepower. I thought, ‘That’s all right until things go wrong.’ So I managed to persuade him that we should take them as tin openers.

https://www.paradata.org.uk/article/major-phil-neames-personal-account-falklands-war

Also found on google that his father also Philip Neame had the unique double of an Olympic gold medal and a Victoria Cross in WW1

I watched this last night and thought it was a truly staggering piece of television. Incredibly powerful and moving! It really got me thinking, then I’ve just read this thread and particularly the post from @relapsed_mandalorian

My best mate joined ‘The Mob’ at 16, to follow in the footsteps of his dad, a wonderful man, still full of shrapnel from Korea, who never spoke about it. My mate deployed to war zones on many occasions and I watched as it took its toll on him over the years. He’d never speak about it, and I never asked, but as a frontline medic he must have seen some truly horrific stuff.

Whenever he came back from Iraq or Afghan he’d be worse. his behaviour got more and more erratic and he just seemed to get angrier and angrier with everything. The he went to Sierra leone for the Ebola crisis and thats what really finished him off. He was out there for 6 months trying to contain the outbreak and in his words ‘just watching people die’. It was how powerless he felt that did it. He couldn’t help them.

When he got back home he came and stopped with me and he was a mess. He is one of the funniest men you could ever meet, but he was a shadow of that. The humour had gone and everything got very very dark. It got to the point where his behaviour got so bizarre and aggressive I actually had to kick him out of my house. That was tough.

At that point his wife issued him with an ultimatum. Go and get some proper treatment for his PTSD or she was off. I’m amazed she lasted that long. He was a nightmare. So he (very reluctantly) agreed to get therapy. He said he was scathing about it but at his first session, again in his words “I started talking and I just never shut up”. He poured it all out to a therapist all that he’d seen and he got proper treatment

The upshot of this is that I’ve got my best mate back, his wife has got her husband back and his kids have got their dad back. It’s transformed him. The old Walshy is back. Madder than a bucket of frogs and as a loud as bombs (seems like an appropriate term). I saw him a month ago and we went out for a beer (lots of beers) and had a right laugh

I watched that documentary last night, got a bit upset, had a bit of a cry then texted him and told him how much I love him. He replied “I love you to brother, but what the hell brought that on?”. Bloody hell… its just got a bit dusty in here again while typing this.

What was striking about last night is the trust and that the film crew must have built up with the guys they interviewed. I liked the way they panned back at times to show the people asking the question. It was incredibly sensitively handled

If you’ve not seen it, then its a must watch. We really do as a society fail to fully appreciate the sacrifices our armed forces make for us

Yeah it’s a good watch. For me it wasn’t what they did at the time I think true bravery comes with dealing with the aftermath and the effect it still had.

The bald tall guy scared me with how cold and detached he seemed to it – he’d been abused as a child and had just built a massive shell around himself.

The guy burning pallets in his garden (sorry I can’t remember their names) – I felt sorry for his partner – she was carrying a lot and I don’t think has an easy life?

I did laugh at the guy wearing sunglasses with the ‘tache at just how much he is a spit of my ex marines uncle the funniest person I’ve ever met but who would fight with anyone and his own shadow.

I’d like to know more about the ‘commander’ – who was 19 at the time and was flapping about and nearly had his command removed. He appeared successful in life but the program did seem to put a slight negative slant on his command which was no doubt due to his age and lack of experience and whether he felt he ‘failed’ or if did have his troops respect.

I’d like to know more about the ‘commander’ – who was 19 at the time and was flapping about and nearly had his command removed. He appeared successful in life but the program did seem to put a slight negative slant on his command which was no doubt due to his age and lack of experience and whether he felt he ‘failed’ or if did have his troops respect.

I thought there was something familiar about him when I watched the programme but didn’t realise until the final clips of him that I had chatted to him the week before as he filled up his Pitts Special at Shobden Airfield. He was a very nice guy & how he fitted in that tiny aircraft I have no idea. He certainly looked to be enjoying his best life.

Slightly off topic but the horrors of hand to hand combat brought to mind the Battle of the shirts, the casualty rate was incredible and the loss of men to communities must have been a huge blow. Worth a google.

Just finished Vulcan 607 whilst on holiday and what an amazing read! Absolute page turner, not only very well written but an incredible story. What they achieved in only three weeks is quite incredible.

I watched a documentary on the Vulcans before that recounted having to find the air to air refueling nozzle in the mess room, it was being used as an ashtray.

I’ll check out the documentary as I enjoyed dipping into the Falklands war story when there was a fair bit on it before, must have been an anniversary?

Did any of you ever see the TV clip of Thatcher being questioned about why the Belgrano was shot on (and sunk) whilst it was sailing away from the Falklands and was outside the exclusion zone?

Thatcher apparently gave the order to sink it l, knowing it was sailing away.
Thought provoking when you start to think about it.

Also, have any of you found any truth about rumours on American mercenaries fighting for the Argentinians, and the Paras being given orders to shoot them on sight?

I worked with an ex serviceman who was adamant that this was true.

“It was absolutely not a war crime. It was an act of war, lamentably legal.”

The above was said by the Belgrano’s captain, Hector Bonzo, in an interview two years before his death in 2009.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/britain-was-right-to-sink-the-belgrano/

Copy of the Black Buck documentary is on YouTube.