Viewing 40 posts - 721 through 760 (of 1,907 total)
  • F1 2023 (will 100% contain spoilers)
  • the-muffin-man
    Full Member

    …absolutely coins it in.

    I bet the figure of $40m/year being talked about is a lot less than he’s on now. 🙂

    The only reason to go is for the historic/romantic aspect of driving for Ferrari – and nice company cars for life!

    Ferrari do need Leclerc out though. He’s only just a step above Sainz IMO and not in the Lewis/Max/Fernando league.

    nickc
    Full Member

    and not in the Lewis/Max/Fernando league.

    I think LeClerc has every chance of being an amazingly good driver, I think it’s clear that he’s got the speed, he’s by far and away the fastest driver over a lap, and is one of the few drivers who, after Verstappen has done some amazing time, can legitimately say “Hold my beer…”

    multi21
    Free Member

    You can’t judge how good a driver is based on their performance at Ferrari.

    the-muffin-man
    Full Member

    If he stays at Ferrari he’ll never win a championship.

    Aston would be the smart move for his future – huge investment and 99% sure they’ll have race-winning Honda engines from 2026.

    Red Bull may take a step back with the switch to Ford.

    And Ferrari will carry on being Ferrari! 🙂

    multi21
    Free Member

    shermer75
    Free Member

    Amazing!

    vlad_the_invader
    Full Member

    BBC News – Formula 1: Honda to return as Aston Martin engine partner in 2026
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/65682563

    Bez
    Full Member

    This is curious…

    https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.mclaren-to-run-one-off-triple-crown-livery-at-monaco-grand-prix-as-part-of.1L0qis9t214tiz6Rj3cuyN.html

    Not the paint job itself, just the fact that if you were McLaren and had to commemorate a Monaco win, why would you choose 1984?

    Anyway… Aston are looking fairly potent now; I guess you have to hand it to Stroll, he seems to be building all the right stuff. Wonder if Alonso can hang on for another three years…

    scotroutes
    Full Member

    Yeah, Monaco 1984 was a bit of an embarrassment for McLaren really. You’d think they’d want folk to forget it.

    nickc
    Full Member

    why would you choose 1984?

    Because it’s the first time they won at Monaco.

    thols2
    Full Member

    why would you choose 1984?

    Yeah, 1988 was much more memorable.

    Bez
    Full Member

    Because it’s the first time they won at Monaco.

    Ah yes, a somewhat obvious point that I completely overlooked! As you were… 🙂

    multi21
    Free Member

    First few pics are coming out of the Merc upgrade. Looks like undercut sidepods and anti-dive front suspension so far.

    stumpy01
    Full Member

    multi21

    First few pics are coming out of the Merc upgrade.

    Got any links?

    multi21
    Free Member

    stumpy01
    Full Member

    Got any links?

    Not good ones yet, this is an artists impression of the sidepod inlet

    And the suspension, this is the old one, note the difference between the highlighted shape between the wishbones (yellow) on the ferrari/merc compared to the aston/rb (which have anti-dive)

    And the new merc one which has a similar shape to the am/rb

    nickc
    Full Member

    great find @multi21 thanks

    the-muffin-man
    Full Member

    Despite the current car being a bit of a dog I thought it was probably the best looking of the current crop – it looks so mean in this photo from Baku…

    multi21
    Free Member

    Confirmation of sidepods

    multi21
    Free Member

    And compared to the old ones…

    the-muffin-man
    Full Member

    Bloody ‘ell – all that wait just for that – they could’ve knocked that up in a week! Where’s the innovation!? 🤣🤣

    And Horner will have his smugness level cranked up to 11 this weekend for Mercedes copying (which is probably why Toto didn’t push the upgrade button sooner!). 🤣

    thols2
    Full Member

    Where’s the innovation!?

    The old one was quite innovative – they got huge downforce numbers from the exposed floor in the windtunnel. Only problem was, they couldn’t achieve it consistently on track – when they did, the car was fast, but mostly it was just inconsistent. The new one will channel the airflow differently and better seal the underfloor. It’s not innovative because Red Bull got there first, but it should be more consistent. However, that will depend on how well they can generate and control vortices down the side of the car. Apparently, they have also revised the front suspension. That will be to make the aerodynamics more stable. It will be interesting to see if they have followed Red Bull’s extreme anti-dive geometry or done something innovative.

    the-muffin-man
    Full Member

    ^^^ note smileys!

    We all knew it was just going to be a copy/same theme. Just a convergence of designs.

    I genuinely don’t know why they have waited so long though. They must have had this in the wind-tunnel/CFD since the first test last year.

    nickc
    Full Member

    when they did, the car was fast, but mostly it was just inconsistent

    I read that trying to solve the porpoising, then suspension, then downforce issues probably masked the fundamental problem that the whole concept wasn’t workable in the real world. Apparently the “numbers” showed that it should be just unbelievably quick, and you can imagine that they thought that as these issues came up, solving them would just unleash this tremendously quick car, I guess you can’t really blame them for holding out as long as they did. It must burn a bit to have to give it all up, and chuck all that work in the bin

    multi21
    Free Member

    the-muffin-man

    they could’ve knocked that up in a week! Where’s the innovation!? 🤣🤣

    That would be

    -moving the front suspension mount points & completely changing the geometry without homologating a new chassis

    -adding sidepods to a design completely optimised not to have them, without affecting the legality of the downwashing SIPS wing or PU cooling.

    the-muffin-man
    And Horner will have his smugness level cranked up to 11 this weekend

    lol no change there then, if he could get his head any further up his own arse he’d be able to pick his nose with his tongue

    PJM1974
    Free Member

    It’ll be interesting to see how this new concept correlates on the track. It’s not just an aero facelift, the front suspension geometry is new too – but Wolff is already downplaying any talk of the upgrades being a magic “silver bullet”.

    Am going to be keeping a close eye on the weather this weekend. A dry race there is usually a snoozefest, if we do see thunderstorms and showers as forecast then we might see an attritional race with fewer gurning celebrities on TV with any luck.

    the-muffin-man
    Full Member

    @multi21

    …again – note smileys! 🙂

    I’m fully aware how long it takes to change a car concept.

    Bez
    Full Member

    I genuinely don’t know why they have waited so long though.

    From my armchair, it made sense for them to spend last year trying everything to make the concept work. But I was rather surprised when they wheeled out a very similar-looking car at the start of this season.

    It’s a shame Imola didn’t happen; Monaco is going to tell us pretty much nothing about how well these upgrades will change Merc’s fortunes. (Obviously in the grand scheme of things there are slightly more important considerations around Imola not happening.)

    mashr
    Full Member

    if we do see thunderstorms and showers as forecast then we might see an attritional race with fewer gurning celebrities on TV with any luck.

    or *shudders* red flags, delays and more gurning celebrities to fill the time

    thols2
    Full Member

    But I was rather surprised when they wheeled out a very similar-looking car at the start of this season.

    I suspect that what happened is that they thought they’d addressed the bouncing issue last year and would be able to unlock the potential of the concept. By the end of last year, they were looking much faster and more consistent. This year’s Merc is actually much better than last year’s, but I think Red Bull stopped developing their car early last year to focus on this year’s car. That caught Merc and Ferrari by surprise so they thought that the improvements they saw in the wind tunnel and simulators would be enough to catch Red Bull. However, Red Bull just spent most of last year developing this year’s car so they made a massive gain. Merc must have realized back in March that their aero concept was never going to live up to its theoretical potential, but it’s taken them until now to actually bring a new package to the track.

    multi21
    Free Member

    the-muffin-man
    Full Member


    @multi21

    …again – note smileys! 🙂

    vettelol
    sorry been a long morning, i thought it was an interesting point anyway

    multi21
    Free Member

    thols2
    Merc must have realized back in March that their aero concept was never going to live up to its theoretical potential, but it’s taken them until now to actually bring a new package to the track.

    That’s also around the time of that rumour that they’d found something wrong with their models/wind tunnel config

    P20
    Full Member

    W14B only one letter away from greatness 😂

    Daffy
    Full Member

    There was all this talk about Mercedes floor flexing due to the lack of pods, but I’m almost certain that’s BS. Anyone that’s worked with CRFP knows how stiff it can be made and how easily it can be supported. The simple thing for me is that RB with their undercut pods have significantly increased the area of bodywork which can create downforce, yes they pay a parasitic drag penalty, but if you don’t have downforce, you’re going to pay a drag penalty anyway, but tis will be induced drag and MUCH worse as you’ll have to dial it into the wings, so you’ll be slower on the straights.

    The porpoising was a totally separate phenomenon related to the need for body kinematics coupled to CFD. Mercedes, didn’t get the correlation between their suspension, aero and floor position correct, so the car kept stalling its underbody aero before the car bottomed out. They had to run the car higher so they could predict the aero and control the ride height with VERY stiff suspension.

    At the end of last year, Mercedes would have the correlation and the numbers to suggest that they would be close to RB with the current package, but RB made HUGE gains and Mercedes must have had an understanding of the development potential of this concept and decided to scrap. it.

    Finally, the zero pod design moved the radiators VERY close to the centreline which elongated the drivetrain/thermal package and the pushed the cockpit forward making it harder to drive/balance.

    All told, their whole concept was innovative, but flawed as it let to a very specific design without much development potential and a significant set of compromises to achieve it.

    This year may fix the aero, but probably not the layout and balance as MUCH more work will be required to repackage all that.

    thols2
    Full Member

    The simple thing for me is that RB with their undercut pods have significantly increased the area of bodywork which can create downforce

    Not really. The area in plan view will be the same. However, the Merc had exposed floor area, which is apparently much more effective at generating downforce in the wind tunnel. The Red Bull sidepods with their big undercut is apparently much more effective at creating vortices that seal the floor. Even though it has less downforce when run in optimal conditions in the wind tunnel, it’s much more tolerant of changes in ride height. The new Merc sidepod will be intended to replicate that vortex that seals the floor and allow them to run suspension with more travel so they can ride over kerbs the way the Red Bull does.

    multi21
    Free Member

    Daffy
    Full Member

    There was all this talk about Mercedes floor flexing due to the lack of pods, but I’m almost certain that’s BS. Anyone that’s worked with CRFP knows how stiff it can be made and how easily it can be supported.

    So why add the additional floor stays then?

    thols2
    Full Member

    Yes, that cantilevered floor is always going to be more flexy than a traditional sidepod. It can be made stiff, but only by making it heavier. Even if it’s only a kilogram, that’s a kilo that they have to lose somewhere else to get down to the weight limit.

    Daffy
    Full Member

    The floor was flexing due to porpoising, not the aero – the stay were emplaced to restrict that movement. Others also used stays (Ferrari for example) to stop the floor flexing due to bouncing despite having HUUGE sidepods. Those with less porpoising didn’t need them.

    multi21
    Free Member

    I thought it was the other way round (i.e. it causes/contributes to porpoising not caused BY it), as the car’s speed increased, air speed through the tunnels increased, therefore suction increased, therefore the floor flexed down. This sealed the floor edge more effectively, which further increasing suction- like a positive feedback loop.

    Then of course the car had more load and got lower and lower until it struck the floor and lost downforce, causing it to rise back up and start again

    If you look at the internals of the RB sidepods, you will see they have a chunk of billet acting as a floor stabiliser, similar to this one which has just been photographed on the new merc

    edit to add, found the redbull one:

    Bez
    Full Member

    The floor was flexing due to porpoising, not the aero

    That’s saying that the aero load from that region of the floor is way less than the forces resulting from the mass of that same region being pulled up and down. Given that it’s there to generate downforce and be as low in mass as it can be, I’m not convinced. The cause and effect will be a bit of a vicious circle, though.

    Mind you, I’ve not done any aero for over 25 years and when I did it was hardly F1 level, so I’ll accept any reasonable argument that I’m talking out of my hole 🙂

    the-muffin-man
    Full Member

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