F1 2021 – spoilers here

Luckily Abu Dhabi is a very different track. If Lewis can keep out of trouble in the first few laps then he should win it fair and square. Whereas Max will lunge and push like he’s on a stag-do karting trip…

I still think it’s odds-on that Max will take Lewis out.

There is a short interview with either Herbert or Hill (Herbert I think) and he noted that even after the race Max said something along the lines of he would still win the WC if neither of them finish.

If they end up level on points (as they are now) Max wins because he has more race wins this season and that’s used as the tie breaker.

Unfortunately. If they crash & both fail to finish that’s enough for Max.

He has said that he’s not interested in further titles after he wins the WDC because he’ll have ‘ completed F1’ if I remember it right: I now almost hope he does win with a deliberate crash, then leaves F1 forever. Based on the last few races we’d be better off without him, and based on lots of the comments across the web we’d be better off without a portion of his fans too if you ask me.

It won’t be the stewards decision in the end – who’s ready to wait until January and a sitting of the court of arbitration??

I’ll wait. Fine with me.

I’d like there to be a statement before the race that anyone found by the stewards to be “predominantly to blame” for a collision (to use their words!) will lose one WDC point. Won’t change much for anyone else down the rest of the championship. Wouldn’t affect Lewis’s chances of finishing first, or indeed second.

Might make Max think twice once about hoofing in where all the other drivers seems to realise isn’t within the rules.

Managed to watch the C4 highlights on catchup last night. Wow! where do I start?!

That was entertaining TV but wasn’t a good race in my opinion. The F1 officials need to really up the game for next season. There have been so many inconsistencies in rulings and badly managed situations they are making a farce out of this.

My opinion of Max has very much soured in this second half of the championship. I used to dislike his spoilt child mentality and his torpedo crashes when he was younger but at the start of this season I thought he had matured a bit and was good, aggressive driver hungry for success. So while I didn’t want to … I couldn’t help but respect him as a driver and the fight he put up to Lewis.

Being a Williams Racing supporter I am pretty much a neutral supporter and look forward to when another competitor can bring the fight to Lewis and the Merc team. But for a few months now I think Max and the RB team have done a 180 and I find it really hard to respect them and cheer for them.

It’s very unfortunate as Max clearly has a lot of talent and some serious balls and hunger for success. He regularly pulls out amazing moves to overtake people in unexpected places and puts in some furiously hot laps in qualifying and the races. But I don’t think he drives fairly and with a good sportsmanship attitude.

In the last few months his one move during overtakes (whether he is doing the overtake or someone trying to overtake him) is to just shove them to the outside and off the track, there is almost all ways contact between the cars.

I just hope all this talk of him making a professional foul to win the championship is making him think hard about what kind of driver he wants to be. Hopefully he will drive hard but clean in the final race and give us race fans some true racing.

I think next season will be interesting with George Russel in the Merc and hopefully a tighter field in general. At the moment its just Lewis v Max, so Lewis is always taking the risk and has too much to loose. But if more people can mix it up with Max more often and I think then the field won’t put up with his antics and hold their ground more often as they can share the burden.

it’s WWF1

In terms of viewing figures and getting people into F1, it is difficult to argue that the current tussle hasn’t been very good for the sport.

It is easy to forget how dangerous the sport still is. Hamilton had been lucky not to be seriously injured e.g. the time when Max droves his car on top of him and he was saved by the halo.

I imagine Hamilton doesn’t relish the prospect of racing alongside someone with homicidal tendancies with little protection from the FIA. If it was my job, I think I would go on strike.

Not sure Lewis has anything to lose – by rights he shouldn’t even have a chance in this years title race at this stage. Pressure is all on Max not to screw it up at the last race.

I hope this is not the case, I really do, for Max’s sake as much as anyone’s. I get the feeling the rest of the field don’t respect him much anyway and that would do it for him in the paddock…

There aren’t really any obvious nutters on the grid anymore – K-Mag and Grosjean having departed. Mazespin is just clumsy and slow rather than aggressive. The does kind of leave Verstappen as the guy most likely to push you off the track.

It is easy to forget how dangerous the sport still is. Hamilton had been lucky not to be seriously injured e.g. the time when Max droves his car on top of him and he was saved by the halo.

And that time the other guy got put into the wall at 180mph….

I really do, for Max’s sake as much as anyone’s. I get the feeling the rest of the field don’t respect him much anyway and that would do it for him in the paddock…

I think that too, but I also don’t think he cares, he’s happy in his RB bubble, they like him there.
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And that time the other guy got put into the wall at 180mph….

You mean that time when the “other guy” turned in when there was a car there, in a race where if he’d run around the outside he’d have been able to pass later in the lap and swan off into the sunset. Speaks volumes to his “no one will pass me, ever” mindset.

inkster
Free Member

It’s been a farce for over a month now with stewards failing to make decisions after Marx’s previous indiscretions, leaving the door open for him to do basically whatever he wants.

Am I the only person who thinks that were or not the penultimate race of the season (with all to play for at the last race) Verstappen would have recieved a one race ban for the antics he pulled off with (not) giving the place back.

That was the most petulant, stupid and dangerous piece of (non) driving I have seen since I don’t know when. If it had happened earlier in the season I’m sure he’d be sitting out the next race.

Up until Sunday I felt that if Max wins the championship then he deserves it. After that display I don’t think he does anymore,

It’s been going on years with Max, Lewis and Charles. I believe Max really has taken it to another level this year though that has spoiled the racing.

And that time the other guy got put into the wall at 180mph….

Fair point. I am sure it depends on what lens you look at it through.

To me it comes down to intent. I just don’t see the crash at Silverstone was Lewis’ intention. Whereas it seems with Max that he deliberately puts drivers in a position where they either crash or back-off.

Re an earlier point it seems Marko was hankering after an appeal to try and get Hamilton penalised but it seems to have been shut down/ignored by others at Red Bull.

In terms of viewing figures and getting people into F1, it is difficult to argue that the current tussle hasn’t been very good for the sport.

I’ve mostly watched parts of races and the highlights in the past, but the drama/closeness of this season has got me more interested and watching full races. This last race had plenty of drama but the repeated stop/start and constant questions over legitimacy of moves and stewards decisions etc ruined it as a sporting contest really.

And that time the other guy got put into the wall at 180mph…

And got penalised for it. Plus Max had options not to crash. Options which Lewis has taken many times this season.

If Max had chosen to back out of it and Monza, even if he had finished second in both those, he would likely be WC by now.

Lewis in still in this a) through some luck (Imola for eg) but also b) because he backs out of trouble sometimes and plays the long game and Max does not.

I’m not a Max fan (or really a Lewis fan, although would be nice to see him win one more championship) but you can’t really put all the blame on him for eeking out an advantage in a sport that’s a nightmare to overtake in. By building his reputation as someone that will never yield in a 50:50 situation (or even a 40:60 :p ) he’s got a psychological advantage now vs anyone that wants to win a race or the championship.

Yes some of his moves are a bit desperate (especially in the last GP) but he’s still driving just about within the rules and everything in F1 is trying to bend the rules as far as you can. Lewis isn’t a totally clean driver either. It’s also easy to give an opinion on a slow-mo replay of something from the comfort of your sofa vs being in the car making a split second decision.

If Max does a Senna/Schumacher and blatantly drives into Lewis in Abu Dhabi I’ll certainly condemn it to and I think it would badly tarnish his title (most people will forget in a season or two though)  – I still wouldn’t say he’d be totally undeserving of it given how well he’s driven the rest of the season. I think if something does happen it will likely be a 50:50/40:60 thing that Max doesn’t back down from and if that happens I don’t think you can say he doesn’t deserve the title. That said, I’d be fine with Lewis driving off miles in front and it being a super boring GP…

By building his reputation as someone that will never yield in a 50:50 situation (or even a 40:60 :p ) he’s got a psychological advantage now vs anyone that wants to win a race or the championship

Conversely he could become a target of race officials who automatically assign blame to him in 50:50 situations. I think right now he will have his work cut out at the weekend – his actions will very much be in the spotlight.

“Seb v Lewis in Baku a few years back? Ended with Seb intentionally sideswiping Lewis IIRC – at lower speed but equally reckless, and there was a 10s penalty.”

It was under safety car conditions though. Stupid? Yes but hardly comparable, Bottas and Ocon were seconds behind traveling at 200 mph. Think about what could have happened if they had suddenly found Max and Lewis in a stationary pile in the middle of the track at the beginning of a full speed straight?

The stewards failure to act upon previous indiscretions has gradually shifted our perception of what is acceptable driving. Let’s be honest, what we watched on Sunday wasn’t so much a race as an attempt at survival by one driver as the other looked for every opportunity to force the other of the track by any means necessary.

A great gladitorial spectacle for sure.

“Are you not entertained” (said the stewards).

It was more like watching a computer game than a Grand Prix.

I think right now he will have his work cut out at the weekend – his actions will very much be in the spotlight.

Says a lot about his actions to date that the majority on here and a lot of pundits seem to think that there’s a strong chance he’ll be winning the championships by punting Lewis off at an opportune moment…

In some respects, I’m hoping for a boring race where Lewis slowly disappears off into the distance, not giving MV even the slightest whiff of a chance at success. After Sunday’s antics, I can’t think of a more fitting (and frustrating) ending to his championship hunt.

With a strategy error and a crap pit stop by Red Bull as well, purely to hear Helmut and Horner afterwards.

If Lewis doesn’t win the championship this year, he does need to look back at Baku when Max was already out of the race he messed up the re-start due to the wrong settings on his brakes. The determination to beat Perez to the corner backfired and he missed out on any points, which would have course made the final race less of an issue.

For me this year has been really entertaining with the lead going back and forth. However the incessant moaning of Whinger Spice and his acceptance of everything Max does has been quite painful to watch.

I’m really hoping Sunday’s race isn’t spoiled by excessive aggression and actually showcases the sport to be a good (and fair) battle between two quality drivers.

I’m hoping for a boring race where Lewis slowly disappears off into the distance, not giving MV even the slightest whiff of a chance at success. After Sunday’s antics, I can’t think of a more fitting (and frustrating) ending to his championship hunt.

This would be absolutely the best result.

@Straightliner

I’m not sure we’d be in a different situation even had he won or come second in Baku. Lewis (and seemingly Mercedes) seem to thrive on competition and adversity, especially if they can tackle it in a structured way. The end of this season has brought out the absolute best in all of them. We’ve seen this before from Hamilton in 2016. When’s he’s got a mission, he’s damn well going to get it done and boy does he deliver. It’s quite something to watch and bloody inspiring. I’ve always been a little cold on LH, not for any particular reason, just didn’t warm to him like I have Norris, Ricciardo, etc, but his positivity, his relentlessness, yeah, something to watch.

Considering Christian Horner’s comments earlier in the season about how he and Redbull had the experience of fighting hard for championships, Mercedes are the ones who’ve so far been the greater team in the latter half of the season.

I used to really like Christian Horner and had a lot of time for Max Verstappen, but this season has made it really hard to keep positive about the pair.

After Sunday’s antics, I can’t think of a more fitting (and frustrating) ending to his championship hunt.

How about MV does what Schumacher did to Villeneurve at Jerez? Attempts to knock him out, but puts himself instead and has to watch LH take the title? I think that might be the only way he will learn.

How about MV does what Schumacher did to Villeneurve at Jerez? Attempts to knock him out, but puts himself instead and has to watch LH take the title? I think that might be the only way he will learn.

I think you’d get the exact same response from him that we did at the last race – “at least I tried”. No regret, no remorse, no consideration, just “I/me”.

As Daffy says, let it end on a whimper for Red Bull.

Even if Max does win, Lewis still comes out a winner in all this, he has really cemented his stature this season and earned the admiration of many of his detractors.

Max has got a lot more to lose next Sunday.

(As someone once said…)

If Lewis doesn’t win the championship this year…

If is F1 backwards as the late great Murray was fond of saying.

If Verstappen has just ran wide at Copse and slotted in behind Lewis he would have got 2nd and 18 points.

but he’s still driving just about within the rules and everything in F1 is trying to bend the rules as far as you can

This is kind of the point for me. It’s nit Max who is failing here, it’s the stewards. Like FuzzyWuzzy says it’s every team’s job to find the limit of what is allowable, and Max is simply taking this to it’s coldly logical conclusion, and the stewards have played their part in not penalising Max when he has transgressed what has previously been acceptable- and not only in this season, this has been going on for years.
My biggest fear is that someone will end up hurt or worse- there’s reason why the rules like now weaving in the braking zone, rejoining the track in a safe way, no brake checking exist- it’s for safety, and when you don’t enforce them- which they haven’t been, someone will inevitably get hurt. Very not cool.

How about MV does what Schumacher did to Villeneurve at Jerez? Attempts to knock him out, but puts himself instead and has to watch LH take the title? I think that might be the only way he will learn.

Yep. Although the MV version would be: He does his trademark dive on the inside, intending to use the car in front as a brake (like I do in Forza). Except that Lewis is wise to it, and backs out at the last minute allowing MV to drive himself off the track into gravel/a barrier. Probably at turn 6.

In some respects, I’m hoping for a boring race where Lewis slowly disappears off into the distance, not giving MV even the slightest whiff of a chance at success.

+1

The stewards failure to act upon previous indiscretions has gradually shifted our perception of what is acceptable driving.

FWIW I don’t think it has been gradual, it’s been quite marked. And it’s come home to roost: now Max is saying “it was ok in Brasil, what’s up with it now?”

The fact he knows full well the retort to that opinion isn’t relevant! And it’s down to the poor governance of the sport.

Doesn’t excuse all Max’s antics, but might might explain why he thinks he can get away with whatever he wants.

Got my goat when Max barreled up the onside of Lewis and Ocon on the restart and DC was ebullient in his praise – “now that’s fantastic fighting spirit and incredible control!” Well – no it isn’t, I bet there’s not a driver on that grid who couldn’t have just sent it like that and risked a multui-car pile up, the skill was in the others avoiding getting taken out.

Actually I don’t think there was anything wrong with Verstappen on the second restart, it was a brilliant move, he made the corner cleanly. Hamilton backed out because he knew he was the meat in a three car sandwich.

It was Ocon who actually jumped the corner and was briefly 1st before he gave the place back to Max.

Agreed. Lewis left the door open as he was trying to run Ocon wide. Max took the opportunity to get on the inside where Lewis inadvertently opened the door. It was a fair move, Lewis jinked right (or at least stopped turning left) when he saw Max and collided with Ocon who couldn’t see Max was there and so continued to turn left, crimping Lewis’ front wing.

Aggressive? Yes. Illegal? No.

I was initially thinking that move was overly aggressive but on the replay Hamilton did leave a big old gap and MV nipped through it very smartly.

That was about the only ‘hard but fair’ thing he did though.

FWIW I don’t think it has been gradual, it’s been quite marked.

It’s all down to Massi, he started off just doing what Whiting used to do but he suddenly switched to his methodology and we are now seeing the result of that. Whether that is due to pressure from Liberty to ‘improve the show’ or just the way he operates is hard to tell.

Aye, that was one of the few fair things Max did this weekend.

Of course, if Lewis had defended like another driver might have, the resulting crash would likely have removed both from the race. Which would have suited Max fine!

But yes, it was good, bold move.

Worth watching how Ocon rejoined after he missed the corner, and how he acted after; returning the place without having to be ordered to do it, and returning it without needing several g of braking!

Ocon came out of the weekend well

Actually I don’t think there was anything wrong with Verstappen on the second restart, it was a brilliant move, he made the corner cleanly. Hamilton backed out because he knew he was the meat in a three car sandwich.

Fair play, gotta put my hand up to that one – I was thinking of the one where Max came in crossed up and ran wide, and mixing that up with Coulthard’s praise of the second restart (I think – doubting myself now, and rightly so! 🙂 ). I’d look it up to be sure, but the ads are more than I can stand.

It’s brilliant.

Whether you rate Hamilton or Verstappen or anyone else…

Max on the way inside of a corner – he’s trying to run Hamilton off the track. Hamilton blameless.

Max on the outside – he’s not given room to Hamilton and only has himself to blame when Hamilton drives into him. Hamilton blameless.

Hamilton collides with Ocon – Verstappen to blame. Hamilton blameless.

Really?

Worth watching how Ocon rejoined after he missed the corner, and how he acted after; returning the place without having to be ordered to do it, and returning it without needing several g of braking!

Checo also gave a good contrast in Brazil. LH goes for the pass, Checo realises it’s game over. concedes the corner and sets himself up nicely to retake the place two turns later. Excellent.
MV just doesn’t think like that.
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I was think how many times times I’ve seen drivers side by side through several consecutive corners. Quite a lot. I can’t remember MV being being one of them though? Anyone care to correct me?