• This topic has 445 replies, 51 voices, and was last updated 4 hours ago by hols2.
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  • F1 2020 (spoilers abound)
  • Klunk
    Member

    1. Valtteri Bottas 1:17.313 (Mercedes) laps – 69
    2. Sergio Perez +0.062 (Racing Point) laps – 51
    3. Max Verstappen +0.474 (Red Bull) laps – 81
    4. Carlos Sainz +0.688 (McLaren) laps – 59
    5. Esteban Ocon +0.691 (Renault) laps – 48
    6. George Russell +0.855 (Williams) laps – 64
    7. Charles Leclerc +0.976 (Ferrari) laps – 54
    8. Robert Kubica +1.073 (Alfa Romeo) laps – 47
    9. Kevin Magnussen +1.245 (Haas) laps – 49
    10. Daniil Kvyat +2.821 (AlphaTauri) laps – 45

    williams not the lantern rouge!!!! in this mornings testing 🙂

    Klunk
    Member

    last years merc in a new pink frock ?

    hols2
    Member

    Big relief to see Williams running without problems. Hope it’s a sign that they’re getting past their problems.

    Klunk
    Member

    I know it’s really early doors but it’s

    merc
    honda
    renault
    ferrari

    in the engine stakes. sure to change 🙂

    Premier Icon oomidamon
    Subscriber

    Wonder whether the second fuel flow sensor is affecting Ferrari, or is going to during the year?

    hols2
    Member

    First morning of testing doesn’t mean anything, apart from everyone seems to have reliable cars. Last year Ferrari looked like they were miles ahead until suddenly they were miles behind.

    sobriety
    Member

    Williams turning up and having a car running round the track means they’re already in a far better position than last year.

    Klunk
    Member

    Vesstappen has spun again !

    Klunk
    Member

    merc have some special device on the steering wheel where it moves backwards and forwards.

    hols2
    Member

    null

    PJM1974
    Member

    Interesting to see Racing Point fielding a clone of last year’s Mercedes. Some of the other teams aren’t happy, if Alpha Tauri and Racing Point have access to off the shelf race winning designs, it makes the job of McLaren and Williams that much harder.

    Klunk
    Member

    sky are speculating it’s changing the rake on the car. I’m going with changing brake bias while braking.

    Premier Icon the-muffin-man
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    mashr
    Member

    Klunk

    Member

    sky are speculating it’s changing the rake on the car.

    I cant see the twitter link above, but that would have to come under moveable aero and i’d expect to see the ban hammer out this week.

    To me it looks like it’s adjusting the toe in, keep an eye on the top/inside of the tyres at the end of the straight https://www.facebook.com/171398419619795/posts/2865211733571770/?vh=e&d=n

    Faceache link.

    Premier Icon Kryton57
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    Yep, if you watch it at 1:15 on that Facebook vid, as Hamilton enters the main straight he pulls in the wheel and theres quote a large toe-in effect on the front wheels.

    Intriguing.

    Premier Icon the-muffin-man
    Subscriber

    So why spend the $$$s in the first place if they don’t think it’s legal?

    Do wheels class as moveable aero as they move anyway! Up/Down/Left/Right! 🙂

    mashr
    Member

    So why spend the $$$s in the first place if they don’t think it’s legal?

    Do wheels class as moveable aero as they move anyway! Up/Down/Left/Right! 🙂

    If it’s toe rather than rake (which from the FB link it does look like it) I’ll bet the other teams argue active suspension instead or something along those lines. Still think it’ll get the ban hammer. iirc there are rules on allowable movement of the steering column/wheel too?

    They develop these things as they’re all absolute chancers

    From memory if it’s driver adjusted, not ‘puter aided it’s *legal?

    *I may be imagining/making this up.

    sobriety
    Member

    Because it allows them to test changed toe-in in testing without returning to the pits to physically change it, and it’ll get all the other teams into a froth and not looking at whatever it is they actually want to hide?

    I can’t see them being allowed to run it in races, and they must know that too, unless they’ve done a “Brawn” and had a really thorough conversation with the FiA, and it’ll be legal for a few races until Ferrari get it banned.

    Premier Icon swavis
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    From memory if it’s driver adjusted, not ‘puter aided it’s *legal?

    Similar to the McLaren F-duct that the driver open/closed with their knee?

    That got banned too
    https://www.eurosport.com/formula-1/f1-to-ban-f-duct_sto2321079/story.shtml

    mashr
    Member

    sobriety

    Member

    Because it allows them to test changed toe-in in testing without returning to the pits to physically change it

    Looks more like a change in position that reverts to normal under braking, hence pulling to deploy then braking forces will help/make it return.

    Other manually operated things that have been banned: McLaren’s extra brake pedal

    hols2
    Member

    Yes, can see the toe in change in the video here:
    https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.tech-insight-have-mercedes-just-changed-the-game-with-new-steering-wheel.78KDOPX7xRy9YtaFZPCKC4.html

    IIRC, the McLaren brake thing was banned on the grounds that it was four-wheel-steering.

    Klunk
    Member

    Merc are calling it “Dual Access Steering” .

    mashr
    Member

    If anyone wants a wee read from McLarens POV: https://www.mclaren.com/racing/inside-the-mtc/mclaren-extra-pedal-3153421/

    Premier Icon Twodogs
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    Happy to be proved wrong, but I struggle to believe that they’d develop a complex system to tweak toe-in just for use in testing – it’s so relatively simple to change in a pit stop, would it be worth the development time/cost etc?

    Klunk
    Member

    all not well at red bull & renault

    Klunk
    Member

    merc say it’s not just for testing and it’s been given the Nod from the FIA

    mashr
    Member

    Autosport make it sound like it’s on shakey ground

    F1 rules regarding suspension and steering are quite clear with regards to what teams are and are not allowed to do.

    Article 10.2.3 is explicit that any adjustment to the suspension system can only be made when the car is stationary.

    “No adjustment may be made to any suspension system while the car is in motion,” it states.

    Article 10.2.2 states: “Any powered device which is capable of altering the configuration or affecting the performance of any part of any suspension system is forbidden.”

    Without knowing how the Mercedes system works, it is unclear if it breaches any of the above regulations.

    F1 rules are also clear that any power steering systems can only be utilised to help minimise the effort a driver needs to put in to steer the car.

    Article 10.4.2 states: “Power assisted steering systems may not be electronically controlled or electrically powered.

    “No such system may carry out any function other than reduce the physical effort required to steer the car.”

    PJM1974
    Member

    There’s speculation that the device changes the toe angle on long straights to retain more heat in the tyres, but whatever the purpose it’s certainly bending the rules as far as they can go. There’s definitely a geometry change taking place that isn’t merely the result of applying more lock on the steering as we’ve seen with Red Bull’s design this year.

    Klunk
    Member

    finger boy is looking a little pale.

    Premier Icon Twodogs
    Subscriber

    F1 rules are also clear that any power steering systems can only be utilised to help minimise the effort a driver needs to put in to steer the car.

    I wonder if Merc argue that by changing the toe angle it requires less effort for the driver to steer thru corners?!

    Premier Icon Twodogs
    Subscriber

    all not well at red bull & renault

    in what way?

    Premier Icon Twodogs
    Subscriber

    Mercedes’ new ‘trumbone’ steering wheel system created quite the debate in the morning session, and technical director James Allison spoke to the media in the lunch break about that device.

    The main headline quotes were that it’s called a ‘DAS’ system – which Sky Sports has learnt is an acronym for Dual Axes Steering – and that there are no concerns about its legality.

    “We have a system in the car, it’s a novel idea and we’ve got a name for it, it’s called DAS,” said Allison. “It just introduces an extra dimension in the steering for the driver which we hope will be useful during the season.

    “But precisely how we use it, why we use it… that’s something we’ll keep to ourselves.”

    On the legality questions, he added: “This isn’t news to the FIA, it’s something we’ve been talking to them about for some time. The rules are pretty clear about what’s permitted on steering systems and we feel confident that it matches all of those requirements.”

    From Sky F1

    Klunk
    Member

    Marc speculates

    Klunk
    Member

    in what way?

    floors off and shutters up.

    Klunk
    Member

    back out now, have to say the honda no longer sounds like a bag of nails

    PJM1974
    Member

    Racing Point still fastest, Danny Ric second fastest. Bottas slowest.

    Hot take: It’s hard to read anything at all into the testing times.

    Klunk
    Member

    slow smokey merc

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