F1 2019 (spoilers obviously)

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  • F1 2019 (spoilers obviously)
  • On another front – Bottas has better get next years contract pushed through asap! He’s reverted back to Bottas version one in the last few races.

    jamesy01
    Member

    An alternative view of the incident…
    Danny Ric

    Premier Icon igm
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    pondo – He could’ve, but he would have had to work at it, and he would have lost the spot – definitely opened the wheel to block LH once back on track. Wurz’s observation in Bez’s post above is spot on.

    Wurz in Bez’s link

    Therefore I would have not seen it as action to be penalised, very much as I would have not penalised Verstappen in Suzuka either.

    andrewh
    Member

    Bottas has better get next years contract pushed through asap! He’s reverted back to Bottas version one in the last few races.

    Shame, I liked watching him really push Hamilton but he is starting to fade again.
    I guess the only person who wasn’t pleased with his revival would have been one Mr E Ocon, he’ll be hoping for a return of last year’s Bottas

    Premier Icon pondo
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    igm –

    pondo – one thing

    Wurz in Bez’s link

    Another, unrelated thing

    Premier Icon Bez
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    He … definitely opened the wheel to block LH once back on track. Wurz’s observation in Bez’s post above is spot on.

    Hm?

    As far as I can see, Wurz disagrees entirely with your assessment of Vettel’s actions. His comments from the linked article:

    “It wasn’t intentional to close the door and squeeze Lewis … I don’t think he drove in front of Lewis intentionally, as aggressive as it might look on TV, because his head moves to look in the mirror [only] after the correction is finished.”

    Premier Icon pondo
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    I thought it was **** obvious, but let me separate the two things.

    1 – Vettel opened the wheel to prevent Hamilton passing him (IMVHO).

    2 – The rules are sufficiently detailed as to specify that a penalty in that case must be applied.

    I don’t agree with Wurtz where he says Vettel’s move was not deliberate – I also don’t particularly agree that the punishment fit the crime, or that any punishment even need be necessary. I do agree with him that the rules specify that a penalty be applied, as a result of the community insisting that behaviour be increasingly moderated,.

    Premier Icon igm
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    Well it wasn’t obvious to me pondo.

    When you said Wurz was spot on, I assumed you meant you agreed with what he said, not some bits of what he said.

    However. You are clear now so that’s fine.

    Premier Icon Bez
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    I thought it was **** obvious

    To be fair, writing “[Opinion X]. Wurz’s observation is spot on.” rather implies that you’re referring to Wurz’s observation about Opinion X, not Opinion Y 🙂

    Anyway, no matter. We (and Wurz) agree that a punishment wasn’t necessary in this case, at least.

    Personally I don’t agree the steering was for blocking. It’s exactly the steering input I’d expect to see when the front end bumps over a kerb and hits tarmac while the back end’s still on the grass. Without that the car would spin, which would be more dangerous than what Vettel did.

    For me (and I think, logically, for anyone who takes the above view about the steering) the only question is whether Vettel could/should have rejoined the track at a shallower angle across the flat transition to the left of the kerb, which would have kept him off the racing line and required less steering correction. But getting the car under control—which takes time and thought in itself—and then making that non-instinctive decision and getting the car appropriately positioned and turned while on grass in the heat of the moment is a big ask. It takes someone with more insight into a top F1 driver’s cognitive capacity to make the call as to whether it’s too big an ask or not.

    retro83
    Member

    Personally I don’t agree the steering was for blocking. It’s exactly the steering input I’d expect to see when the front end bumps over a kerb and hits tarmac while the back end’s still on the grass. Without that the car would spin, which would be more dangerous than what Vettel did.

    But they’re not talking about the steering when he bumps over the grass/kerb/immediately after rejoining the track to avoid a spin; they are talking about him opening the steering after the corrections are all done. He (allegedly) opens the wheel again to let the car run wide into Hamilton’s path. They think he could have steered away from the wall once the car was stable.

    Anyway, back to the serious business 😎 Rich Energy are making more friends:

    Premier Icon Bez
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    But they’re not talking about the steering when he bumps over the grass/kerb/immediately after rejoining the track to avoid a spin; they are talking about him opening the steering after the corrections are all done. He (allegedly) opens the wheel again to let the car run wide into Hamilton’s path. They think he could have steered away from the wall once the car was stable.

    Mm, it’s a bit hard to pick apart the exact details because in this scenario the rules don’t differentiate between a deliberately dangerous manoeuvre and a recovery that happens to be dangerous. From watching the onboard in slow motion my thoughts were the same as what Wurz seems to be saying: that he regained control on the grass but then (quite understandably) didn’t try to turn the car once it was controlled, bumped back onto the track and inevitably had to open the steering to correct the effects of going from a low-friction surface to a high-friction one at an angle and over a kerb, and then once he’d collected that he looked in the mirror and didn’t appear to steer to the right again.

    The stewards have access to more data than I or even Wurz do, though, so it’s all a bit moot; I’m sure they made a quite justifiable decision. But I don’t think I’ve seen anything from the stewards to suggest that there was intentional blocking. Happy to change opinion if that does appear, though.

    taxi25
    Member

     Without that the car would spin, which would be more dangerous than what Vettel did.

    Indeed, if he’d spun and centre punched Hamilton with the rear of his car we wouldn’t be talking penalties only that S%&# happens, pity but thats racing.

    Premier Icon Bez
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    It was all just racing. Blocking is part of racing. And Vettel’s course of action was totally foreseeable for anyone who’s done even done a bit of racing, let alone Hamilton who’s spent 12 years at the top. He knew it was going to be close when Vettel rejoined and he went for the gap as much as possible until it was clear it was likely to end up with a collision if he didn’t back off. Both of them did the things, the right things, that any decent racer would do.

    Unfortunately the rules are what they are now, which lands us with this silly mess.

    Although at least we no longer have to listen to Alonso radioing in every time someone so much as farts in front of him.

    retro83
    Member

    From watching the onboard in slow motion my thoughts were the same as what Wurz seems to be saying: that he regained control on the grass but then (quite understandably) didn’t try to turn the car once it was controlled, bumped back onto the track and inevitably had to open the steering to correct the effects of going from a low-friction surface to a high-friction one at an angle and over a kerb, and then once he’d collected that he looked in the mirror and didn’t appear to steer to the right again.

    I still think you’re still looking too early in the incident (if I’m interpreting the autosport article right).

    Once he’s on the tarmac, count how many times he steers right. One big turn to correct the snap, then after that two or three more times to (allegedly) adjust his line to block hamilton when he could continued going left.

    I say allegedly because I’m not sure I agree with their view, but I think that’s what they’re taking about.

    trademark
    Member

    “Although at least we no longer have to listen to Alonso radioing in every time someone so much as farts in front of him.”

    We’ve now got Groanjean for that.

    Premier Icon Bez
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    then after that two or three more times to (allegedly) adjust his line to block hamilton when he could continued going left.

    I dunno, I’m not seeing anything that looks beyond what I’d expect for correcting the car. Meh 🙂

    We’ve now got Groanjean for that.

    Yeah, true, Perez’s (excellent) pass at turn 1 was a good example; I guess it’s normally overshadowed by his constant complaints about his brakes or various other bits of his car. Though it seems that last weekend that job was taken on in toe-curlingly spectacular fashion by his teammate 🙂

    Premier Icon Pook
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    Verstappen in a Merc next year with Vettel?

    Hamo to Ferrari?

    Can’t see that happening, but would love to see Lewis in a Ferrari.

    hols2
    Member

    Why on earth would Merc be interested in swapping Hamilton for Vettel? And why would Hamilton want to leave the most dominant team in history for one that can’t even get simple strategy calls right?

    Why on earth would Merc be interested in swapping Hamilton for Vettel?

    German team – German driver. Board may feel they have milked Hamilton’s profile for as much as they’ll get.

    Can’t see Vettel shifting many units to the U.S. rap crowd though! 🙂

    And I feel Lewis will end his career in a Ferrari. Possible jumping in a year before the new regs come out may be a sensible option.

    And I bet secretly Lewis would love to give Ferrari their first drivers title since Kimi – getting one over Alonso and Vettel into the bargain.

    PJM1974
    Member

    Merc have already had a WDC with a German driver, not too long ago…

    My money is on Lewis staying at Merc until he equals Schumacher’s tally of WDCs before moving to Ferrari. He might feel that the aggravation of building a team around him there is fraught with difficulty given that it’s stymied people of the calibre of Prost, Alesi, Alonso and Vettel.

    hols2
    Member

    German team – German driver.

    They’re a German owned team, not a German team. I don’t think they care about where their drivers come from, just whether they can deliver. Hamilton breaking record after record is much better for marketing than Vettel throwing away title after title.

    Klunk
    Member

    Ferrari Appeal thrown out.

    There are no significant or new elements which were unavailable to the parties at the time

    retro83
    Member

    Clucking bell, Williams are miles off the pace still. And Kubica slower than Russell and Latifi.

    mashr
    Member

    Hamilton under investigation in FP2 for rejoining in an unsafe manner and forcing another driver off the track 🙈

    Premier Icon cp
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    Old news?! He was cleared of it as he, verstsappen and the stewards all agreed there was nothing he could do about it, he rejoined slowly and there was no chance he could see verstsappen coming from the circuit profile, corner and mirror visibility

    eddiebaby
    Member

    Good to see Maclaren getting some decent times in.

    Klunk
    Member

    mr pole at it again.

    eddiebaby
    Member

    Fingerboy not having a good day…

    Premier Icon thepurist
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    Who’s going to get the boot first – Gasly or Kubika? Horner made it pretty clear on C4 that Gasly needs to start delivering, and I read that Kubikas sponsors are looking for other options for him.  Oh and will that be before Seb quits?

    Premier Icon Rick Draper
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    McLaren doing the usual Alonso leaving a team bounce! Also just how good does Lando Norris look, no wonder they dropped Vandoorne to give Norris a seat.

    Premier Icon crazy-legs
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    Maybe, just maybe, Ferrari might try helping Leclerc to capitalise on that 3rd place? Or will then still move him out the way to let FingerBoy through…?

    hols2
    Member

    Wild predictions for next year:
    Kvyat promoted back to Red Bull senior team to replace Gasly. (Quite likely IMO).
    Vettel retires, replaced by Ricciardo. (Less likely, but possible).
    Alonso back to Renault to replace Ricciardo. (Not likely, but can’t hurt to hope).

    jimster01
    Member

    Can’t see Hamilton leaving Mercedes for ferrari, ferrari are only capable of shooting themselves in the foot, anyone hear the exchange between leclerc asking Vettel to get a move on. Classic

    Klunk
    Member

    a lot of nursing some very hot and bothered motors out front

    Safety car please. This is shite.

    Struggling to stay awake here!!

    Terrible race from Gasly. Another ‘too-soon’ promotion from Red Bull?

    Klunk
    Member

    Gasley is for the chop at this rate

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