F1 2019 (spoilers obviously)

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  • F1 2019 (spoilers obviously)
  • Premier Icon rOcKeTdOg
    Subscriber

    Vettel will bottle it as usual or Ferrari will destroy both their drivers races with questionable strategy

    Nearly right!

    Klunk
    Member

    the stewards may well got the steering input data from vettel during the incident and based the decision on that.

    Premier Icon Kryton57
    Subscriber

    Hes such a baby.

    Interesting that the three former F1 drivers on Sky’s coverage didn’t feel it was a penalty.

    Also, it might have been a bit childish, but don’t we want to see some passion? It’s the same with all sports people, they get hammered in the media for being boring and then the moment they some some real emotion they get smashed for it. F1 fans treat Senna like a god, but he’s the guy that ran Prost off the road and punched Eddie Irvine post race just because he unlapped himself.

    eddiebaby
    Member

    Interesting that the bbc team and the race stewards did think there should be a penalty.

    That is interesting, I’ll have to give the Chequered Flag podcast a listen to hear their take on it.

    Chew
    Member

    https://twitter.com/F1/status/1137817877032132608
    Link to the incident.

    Having watched that a few times its hard to see if the second steering movement was to correct the slide a dirty tyres or a deliberate move?

    MSP
    Member

    The Stewards have the cars telemetry, they aren’t just judging on what the incident looks like, they have more data to base their decision on.

    I think it looks dodgy, but probably not enough evidence to give a punishment without that extra data.

    Premier Icon Moe
    Subscriber

    Every race is one more nail in the coffin!

    mashr
    Member

    Looks like the car was pivoting left when he twitched the wheel to the right (to correct). In fact you can pause it on a frame that shows 2 wheels were still off road when he turns to the right. Also doubt he had time to check his mirrors. Would be a super-human block if that was deliberate!

    Holyzeus
    Member

    Didn’t need to check his mirrors!
    Lewis was up his srse and in going off he’d have lost time/speed. That said i don’t know whether it was deliberate or not

    taxi25
    Member

    Vettel’s rejoined the track as best he could, I’m no fan of his but I’m not sure what else he could have done under the circumstances, his car was bound to slide to the right a bit. Very harsh descion IMHO.

    Premier Icon richmars
    Subscriber

    What else could Vettel have done?

    Not driven so fast that he couldn’t take the corner.

    taxi25
    Member

    What else could Vettel have done?

    Not driven so fast that he couldn’t take the corner.

    Probably best he just gets the ford focus out for his Sunday drive in the country then 👍

    mashr
    Member

    richmars

    Subscriber

    What else could Vettel have done?

    Not driven so fast that he couldn’t take the corner.

    Not the competitive type then I assume?

    My opinion is he retained his first place by going off the circuit and re-joining in a questionable manner – I’m 50/50 on wether it was deliberate or not. I think he should have been made to give the position to Lewis and then at least he could battle to regain the lead.

    Thing is, finger-boy couldn’t take the pressure again – he always loses it when pressured.

    Premier Icon Kryton57
    Subscriber

    Ferrari are lodging an appeal.  It is harsh, but personally IMO he can keep his penalty for the subsequent behaviour.  There’s passion and there’s childish toys out the pram, he was the latter.

    Premier Icon Twodogs
    Subscriber

    But apparently they can’t appeal against that type of decision

    Premier Icon richmars
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    The point is LH was pushing him. He made a mistake and shouldn’t, I think, benefit from that. Either take the 5 seconds or give up the place as mentioned above.

    Tricky one this. Watching it at the time it felt very much as though Vettel was doing a Schumacher – cocked up the race but making sure his rival wasn’t able to capitalise. Appreciate that it was a difficult situation but once he starts saying he wasn’t sure of where Lewis was makes me think he deliberately made the most of the mistake and ensured that Lewis couldn’t get past. He knew exactly where Lewis was as he had been right up his chuff for most of the race and less than a second behind him for several laps before the incident. Rather than a penalty I think he should have been made to give up the track position to Lewis and then let them play out the rest of the race. It will feel harsh but there’s also no need to be as petulant as he was. Leclerc, considering what he went through in the previous races has demonstrated better sportsmanship – Vettel could learn a thing or two from him

    F1 fans treat Senna like a god, but he’s the guy that ran Prost off the road and punched Eddie Irvine post race just because he unlapped himself

    Tbf anybody that punches Eddie Irvine *should* be treated like a God.

    eddiebaby
    Member

    Interesting that Ferrari didn’t tell Leclerc about the penalty until after he had finished.

    Premier Icon Rich_s
    Subscriber

    There was a Top Gear interview years ago with Jenson Button where he talked about his championship winning race. Might have been Brazil. Anyway, he went round someone into turn 1 left hand and knew they’d try coming back at him into turn 2 right hand, so he explained how he’d slid the back of his car so that the other guy had to back off.

    JC was pretty incredulous but it serves to give an idea of what these guys are capable of. Vettel must have known where Hamilton would be, and therefore rejoined badly, and therefore… etc.

    A shame Leclerc wasn’t a bit closer, eh? Or was he also told to save tyres, etc etc?

    Premier Icon nickc
    Subscriber

    Not driven so fast that he couldn’t take the corner.

    Vettel caves under pressure…Again. Is that twice now this year already? I reckon that’s what most of the histrionics is covering.

    Premier Icon sockpuppet
    Subscriber

    Vettel’s rejoined the track as best he could, I’m no fan of his but I’m not sure what else he could have done under the circumstances, his car was bound to slide to the right a bit. Very harsh descion IMHO.

    It may be the case that vettel joined the only way he could. That doesn’t mean it isn’t worth a penalty, if that’s what is laid down in the regulations.

    FWIW it looks to me like he used all the road, on purpose. No issue with that, but he did block Lewis, as a result of his own mistake. And the book says that rejoin was not ok.

    Not a satisfying way for it to turn out, but in line with the rules as written.

    mashr
    Member

    but in line with the rules as written.

    What do the rules say? No chance am I digging through a million pages of FIA fun

    nickjb
    Member

    What do the rules say?

    From the BBC:

    The rules
    A number of F1 regulations apply to this sort of incident. One says: “Should a car leave the track the driver may re-join, this may only be done when it is safe to do so and without gaining any lasting advantage.”

    The question here being, did Vettel gain a lasting advantage by doing what he did?

    Another says: “Manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are strictly prohibited.”

    And another: “It is not permitted to drive any car unnecessarily slowly, erratically or in a manner deemed potentially dangerous to other drivers at any time.”

    Response from Hamilton too. Says it was a penalty but he would’ve probably done the same thing: “What I can say is, if I was in the lead and made a mistake and went wide, I would probably have done the same thing, because it happened so quick and you are just trying to hold your position.”
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/48577539

    They should look at the ‘long lap’ corner that motogp run. Much better than 5 seconds on the final time, as the on-track race is effectively over with a time penalty.

    At Montreal they could easily have one at the hairpin.

    Premier Icon Daffy
    Subscriber

    Emotively, I agree with what Seb did, keeping his foot in it (Lewis said he would have done the same), to keep racing and maintain position, that’s what makes it a knife edge fight and worth watching. I also agree with the Stewards decision; They adhered to the rules and applied them fairly. As such, Toto was right, If we want harder, better racing, the rules/application must change FIRST.

    ctk
    Member

    He deserved a penalty, giving up 1st place would have been fair and better for the race. I enjoyed his strop.

    mashr
    Member

    At Montreal they could easily have one at the hairpin.

    Was thinking of the hairpin as soon as i started reading your post! Wouldn’t even need new tarmac, just a marked lane around the outside (ala the power boost in FE)

    They adhered to the rules and applied them fairly.

    Did they though? Of the rules above it’s the second and third ones that would have to apply, which is saying he deliberately blocked…… which isn’t 100% clear (to me, and Ferrari by the sound of it, anyway). The first rule couldn’t really stick as even if he’d slammed on the brakes he still would’ve rejoined the track

    Premier Icon tomhoward
    Subscriber

    As someone who has played Gran Turismo Sport online, I fully feel Vettel’s pain…

    I’m of the opinion that awarding the penalty was right, but too harsh. They should have made him yield to Lewis, as they would have If he’d have run over a tarmac runoff and not lost a place. That way we’d still have a chance of a race/more overtakes.

    mashr
    Member

    tomhoward

    Subscriber

    As someone who has played Gran Turismo Sport online, I fully feel Vettel’s pain…

    0.5s penalty at the moment 😉

    Premier Icon tomhoward
    Subscriber

    I’ve had 3 second penalties for people sending one up the inside, and me having the temerity to not vanish into thin air. Another favourite is someone forgetting where a braking point is, punting me off, resulting in a 2s penalty for me…😡🤬😡🤬

    mashr
    Member

    4s the other night for driving in a straight line with some child next to me playing bumper cars 😡
    Now managed to get a nice “S” grading for Sportmanship though, so hopefully avoid that nonsense for a while!

    Anyway, as we were…..

    cyclelife
    Member

    His mistake stopped Lewis from overtaking, no way should he of kept his place. For fairness though, he should of been told by the stewards to let Lewis through and raced on from there.

    Premier Icon matthewmountain
    Subscriber

    Looking back at Monaco, Lewis missed the chicane when fighting with Max. No penalty was applied and Lewis kept the lead despite leaving the track. Personally I don’t care who wins, I just want to see wheel to wheel racing.

    hols2
    Member

    Vettel can be a prize dick and I’m not a Ferrari fan, but I think it was just a racing incident under considerable pressure, not a deliberate foul by Vettel. Problem is, if the stewards find that there was an offence, they are required to apply a penalty, with a 5 second penalty the most lenient available. So, yes, Vettel did offend, but the penalty took any drama out of the race finish and the stewards were powerless to apply something a bit more commonsensical that would have kept the race alive. IMO, it’s the inflexibility that is the problem, not the penalty itself.

    hols2
    Member

    Looking back at Monaco, Lewis missed the chicane when fighting with Max.

    In this case, it was the unsafe return to the track that was the offense, not the leaving the track itself.

    sharkbait
    Member

    Different scenarios. In Monaco Lewis missed the chicane to avoid an accident (max flying into a gap that wasn’t there) – In Canada Lewis could’t do that as the wall was in the way so he had to back off.

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