F1 2018 (spoilers abound)

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  • F1 2018 (spoilers abound)
  • Premier Icon slowoldman
    Subscriber

    I thought the radio message “we’ll discuss it after the race” was a bit odd. I would have that it would have been discussed before the race.

    Premier Icon eddiebaby
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    I think he was expecting to get the place back like in Hungary (?) last year. Toto did some other sums in his head and changed his mind. Not good but it is an F1 team, not a democracy.

    Premier Icon Kryton57
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    No one else think that FIA came to the rescue again for that block?

    I’m glad they did as it would have been more boring if Vettel got a drive through, but I do think the penalty would have applied to someone else.

    chrismac
    Member

    I agree. The FIA would have penalized anyone else with the blocking move Vettel pulled, Imagine if it was Max to had pulled it.

    sobriety
    Member

    I suspect the only reason they didn’t was that Hamilton avoided contact and then Vettel pretty much waved him through a couple of turns later, having realised that what he’d done was a bit naughty

    Klunk
    Member

    Something has changed between mercedes and ferrari, I think perhaps merc have been playing silly buggers (the lewis Singapore pole and the 0.5s+ in russia) hiding their true pace for whatever reason.

    johndoh
    Member

    They had to do it as a team (even Vettel agreed as such in the post-race interviews). Imagine not doing it then having a couple of reliability issues and a crash then going on to lose the Championship by a couple of points…

    Premier Icon the-muffin-man
    Subscriber

    Something has changed between mercedes and ferrari, I think perhaps merc have been playing silly buggers (the lewis Singapore pole and the 0.5s+ in russia) hiding their true pace for whatever reason.

    And all the talk was about how Ferrari had made big gains!

    I think a lot is down to Lewis – he really turns it on at the back end of the year. Almost as if it takes him a few months to get going.

    As for Bottas – he can take his sulky face round the back of the garages. If you want No.1 status you have to turn up every race weekend and produce the goods. He’s very lucky he got a contract for next season so early as Mercedes have a back-log of good young drivers now.

    And as for Vettel – I’m really looking forward to seeing his sulky face next season when Leclerc hits his stride. Unfortunately for Vettel there is no big team for him to run away too now.

    sobriety
    Member

    As to the performance cahngc, earlier in the season the Ferrari was venting something out of the back of the car at various points, no one could say for sure what it was, but there were rumours of party mode/fuelling cleverness/skullduggery* there were also rumours of Ferrari having a complex battery system (that the FiA couldn’t work out) that may have been giving additional undetectable boost.

    Whatever the Ferrari was venting has stopped, and their performance has dropped off…

    No idea on the battery though.

    *Delete depending on your viewpoint;-)

    retro83
    Member

    ^ Yes, DC or someone made the same point on the C4 broadcast.

    Talking of smoke, noticed a fair bit from Lewis’ car also they had an oil leak and he was talking about hesitation in the race. Wonder if he’ll have to take a new engine?

    Premier Icon Bez
    Subscriber

    Vettel pretty much waved him through a couple of turns later, having realised that what he’d done was a bit naughty

    You really think that? Vettel needs every point he can get, he’s hardly likely to voluntarily drop himself to third knowing that doing so will also gift Hamilton a win. He switched back to the racing line to avoid getting mugged on the following straight, I think he just hadn’t counted on such bold braking from Hamilton (or maybe he was thinking of his own lunge in Baku). The move looked right on the limit given where he dived from, the shallow entry and the recovered exit. Licking the Ricciardo stamp, as it were.

    He’s very lucky he got a contract for next season so early as Mercedes have a back-log of good young drivers now.

    This. Bottas isn’t a title contender and never will be. But he’s quick enough to call into play when push comes to shove and gets on well enough with the better driver in the other car, just as is the case with Raikkonen with Vettel*. But Ocon or Russell would mean having to deal with a whole new political balance, which would be a daft move when Hamilton’s in full flow.

    * personally I suspect Ferrari are envisioning Leclerc as their number one driver from 2020 onwards.

    Premier Icon bruneep
    Subscriber

    Proper racing, how many penalties would each driver get in 2018?  🙄

    Premier Icon nemesis
    Subscriber

    Given it was soaking, both went off track and none of the contract looked to have intent, I doubt there would be any penalties for that now.

    jimster01
    Member

    Not looking good for Ferrari again after FP1 & 2, Vettel 0.8 seconds behind Hamilton, should imagine the mercs had something left too.

    Premier Icon nemesis
    Subscriber

    Explanation of Ferrari’s apparent loss of engine performance:

    TLDR: Likely some clever way of deploying extra energy within a grey area of the rules and connected to the two battery set up which the FIA has probably clamped down on following more data gathering with extra sensors – as suggested by LH, not cheating but typical F1 practice of playing to the rules and being smart – good work by Ferrari, right process (as set by precendent) by the FIA.

    jimster01
    Member

    Another mare for Vettel, 9th!! Hamilton’s 80th pole too boot.

    Premier Icon eddiebaby
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    Watching finger boy having his year just gets better and better.

    hols2
    Member

    Turns out Alonso was right to ditch Ferrari. They show no sign of being a championship winning team.

    Premier Icon Bez
    Subscriber

    Except that even if the team had made the same mistakes, it’s a fair bet that Alonso would have made way fewer mistakes on track than Vettel.

    And with the benefit of hindsight you can hardly say going to the team that’s now right at the back of the grid means it turns out he was right.

    hols2
    Member

    Well, he was a bit optimistic about McLaren, but if anyone had said five years ago that Alonso driving a McLaren would be qualifying at the back of the grid, they would have been laughed at. Astonishing how far Williams and McLaren have fallen in the last 30 years.

    Yes, I think Alonso would have made less mistakes than Vettel, maybe even won the championship last year and this, but his point about Ferrari being badly managed seems to have been spot on.

    milky1980
    Member

    Ferrari have historically always been poorly managed, especially when things start to go wrong.  Ignoring the Schumi years as they were exceptional, it’s easy to see a pattern.  When things go well for them they have a habit of dropping the ball once.  This wakes them up for a few races then they drop the ball again,  This causes the Italian media to go into a frenzy, changes are made and more mistakes creep in.  This causes a downward spiral that stops at a season’s end or by a major change operationally.  They then regroup over the winter break and they carry on until they drop the ball again, etc.  This season is slightly different as it was going well for them until Sergio Marchionne’s passing lead to them dropping the ball but it has been unravelling since then.

    Without strong leadership and a disconnect from the politics of Italian media Ferrari will always have ups and downs in form.  The only anomaly has been the Todt/Brawn/Schumi years where the team was basically disconnected from the Car division.  Alonso was right and Vettel is learning that the hard way.

    Premier Icon Rick Draper
    Subscriber

    The Schumacher era was a success at Ferrari as the whole top leadership of the team was not Italian.

    It has been proven once again as long as the top of the Ferrari leadership is Italian they will struggle to win the world championship again.

    Premier Icon Kryton57
    Subscriber

    Interesting video. So Ferrari have lost thier borderline illegal advantage and Finger Boy / Arrivabene are trying too hard to make up for it.

    hols2
    Member

    Not saying that the Ferrari engine power thing isn’t a bit fishy, but I think part of it is that Merc got on top of their tyre management issues. Ferrari’s deficit in Singapore wouldn’t have been just due to engine power. In Russia, Ferrari couldn’t get the front and rear tyres up to temperature evenly, whereas Merc could.

    jimster01
    Member

    In Russia, Ferrari couldn’t get the front and rear tyres up to temperature evenly, whereas Merc could.

    I would have thought Pirelli would have worked closely with Ferrari to help them get the most out of the tyres as was being mooted last season

    Premier Icon the-muffin-man
    Subscriber

    I have to say – decent job by Lance Stroll. In know it’s only 14th but around Suzuka that’s a decent position in a shocking car.

    And Vettel – well! Bad decision by the team but ultimately the driver makes the call.

    Premier Icon richmars
    Subscriber

    I wouldn’t be surprised if Vettel retires over the winter. If Ferrari can’t win this year, they’re not going to next year, plus a new, young driver with lots to prove.

    legend
    Member

    Bad decision by the team but ultimately the driver makes the call.

    If the team says “it is about to rain” then there’s only one call to make

    Premier Icon the-muffin-man
    Subscriber

    The other 9 teams didn’t make that call.

    As Martin Brundle always bangs on about – pick the right tyres for the conditions at the time.

    They aren’t a back-marker team taking a gamble that may gain them a couple of spots.

    hols2
    Member

    They aren’t a back-marker team taking a gamble that may gain them a couple of spots.

    That does seem to be the direction they are headed in. Ref: McLaren, Williams

    milky1980
    Member

    Vettel has just thrown away any chance of the championship with that move.

    Premier Icon the-muffin-man
    Subscriber

    What a bloody amateur. He’s lucky to have 4 world titles to his name – certainly not driving like one.

    Premier Icon the-muffin-man
    Subscriber

    No penalty – Ferrari International Assistance strikes again! 🙂

    Premier Icon Twodogs
    Subscriber

    That was a pathetic attempt!

    milky1980
    Member

    Wonder if ferrari will swap Vettel and Raikkonnen seeing as there’s a 35 second gap between them.  He doesn’t deserve any extra points the way he’s driven this weekend.

    milky1980
    Member

    Nope, management sending him a message I think 😒

    Klunk
    Member

    Vettel’s head has gone.

    Premier Icon the-muffin-man
    Subscriber

    How he has the cheek to blame Verstappen for that crash is beggers belief. He only had to wait a few corners and take him down the straight. He could have finished 2nd today.

    Premier Icon Rick Draper
    Subscriber

    I don’t see Ferrari winning the world championship again with Vettel as the lead driver. He screwed it up last year and he has screwed it up this year. Yes the team has made a number of mistakes but as a driver he has cost them far more points.

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