• This topic has 32 replies, 28 voices, and was last updated 2 years ago by NZCol.
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  • Experiences working for a start-up?
  • rsmythe
    Free Member

    Hi all,

    My brother is a young software developer with 5 years experience.

    He’s in the enviable position of being offered 2 new jobs. Both constitute a ~15% pay rise. One is to work as a developer in a large, established company; a similar role to what he does now. The other is a “team leader” role at a small start-up company (few hundred £k turnover p/y).

    At the start-up he will be trained to look after the code by existing contractors and then it will be his responsibility to maintain “in house”. He will be in charge of two apprentice graduates then, later, perhaps a junior developer (uni graduate, I assume). The owner of the company seems very keen to take him on.

    I’m not sure what to advise him really. I think he has some reasonable concerns about the nature of working at a start-up: will the company exist 1 year in the future? Will the level of responsibility mean he is working an unhealthy amount to meet goals?

    He’s also aware that it seems that to progress beyond a developer role in his career will involve some level of management, and that the current job offer provides an excellent opportunity for him to get that experience.

    I’d be very interested (and my brother too) to hear of peoples experiences on here of joining fledgling companies in relatively senior positions. Pro’s, con’s, work/life balance etc. Obviously the specifics won’t be the same but any input would be great.

    Cheers,

    R

    bentandbroken
    Full Member

    I have only done it once and it was fantastic, but I think it is “horses for courses”.

    The key elements for me were;
    – There was a new ‘technology’ and the competition were all running down a similar route of giving the product away for free and taking a share of the revenue it generated. In my view this would make the investors rich after a ‘land grab and then sell’ game. The startup I joined developed an in-house software solution and sold it in the traditional way; CAPEX investment, and ongoing OPEX support and maintenance. The client took all of the revenue the system generated. This looked like a more sustainable business.
    – The Entrepreneur in charge had started two businesses in the same sector before. Both were successful, but in a short lived technology and he ‘exited’ successfully (eg one died when Pagers were phased out). On that basis I was confident he could build a business from scratch.
    – I liked the guy, he was friendly, open and charismatic. I should have asked for a share of the business, but even 18 years later he is not sure if he would have said yes. However, when he sold the business he looked after all of the employees very well and the original core team all received significant bonuses.

    I had about 7 great years, responsibility building steadily and some seriously long hours. I am winding my career down now, but if he asked me to do another business with him (he has already implied he might be on to something) then I will struggle to say no. It was seriously hard, but fun!

    chewkw
    Free Member

    I used to work with a software start up company in the far east during the early years of internet (I am not a programmer). It collapsed within two years because their product/software ideas bombed. The were hemorrhaging funds throughout the period but because they were politically connected I suspected something fishy. Anyway, their product/software sucks so no amount of funding would make it survived.

    If your brother start-up is in the software industry and they are still developing the software then it is a gamble.

    If they are just sub-contracting the coding work then they might be fine for a while.

    Not all bad by the way, I know a software company that sold their rights for £11 million to the big boys and all the founders shared the cake … except my friends who were just hired as coders but they were paid handsomely.

    If the company is developing a highly desirable app and has great potential then they need to launch it very quickly or they will not survive for two years.

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    bentudder
    Full Member

    I worked for a tech publication just before the dot com bubble burst; I’d gone from working nuts hours as a staff writer across two magazines at a stodgy, dull publisher (which bought our titles from Felix Dennis, who used the dosh to fund the expansion of Maxim in the US) to taking a reasonable raise to work for a smaller company that had been around for a while and was seeking funding for IPO. As well as the reasonable rise (and far more fun working conditions with a super-bright, quite young team in Soho – yay!) I was given share options.
    A year or so later the whole thing collapsed in a puff of smoke, and those options were not even worth the paper they were printed on.
    It turned out the payments into my pension from my pay cheque were going somewhere else – and had to be recovered (thankfully before it all collapsed) by threatening legal action. I’d been laid off as a latecomer / young’un in the second or third round months before, when they were still paying a month’s salary in lieu.
    Long story short: it was most definitely a formative experience, I learned lots and realised I preferred hectic and exciting to dull and predictable.
    My advice? Ask for options or even potentially equity if your brother is going to be as key an employee as he sounds. Be prepared to sacrifice a little of that pay rise if needs be; if he has no dependents and decent savings, it might be worth a punt. Oh, and he’ll likely work crackers hours.

    sharkey
    Free Member

    I’ve worked for a (medical) startup, just about to start with another. Things I’ve learned:
    Check the finances, how much actual cash have they got, how quickly are they spending it. Promises of new investment may not come through
    Progression/promotion is only through company expansion
    There won’t be a training plan and maybe no budget so you need to sort it yourself
    No hierarchy means you get to influence or make decisions about the company but it can also mean there aren’t many minions so you end up doing all the tedious boring stuff too
    Are the founders/investors trying to build an ongoing business or just something that they hope to get bought out, if the latter it can lead to some “odd” decisions
    It can be great, I wouldn’t take much of a paycut in return for equity though. Most startups don’t end up being worth much

    Aidy
    Free Member

    He’s also aware that it seems that to progress beyond a developer role in his career will involve some level of management

    That’s not necessarily true, depends what he wants, though.

    Aidy
    Free Member

    Startup is generally more risky, but rewards could be accordingly greater. Depends on his appetite for risk.

    It sounds pretty early stage, I’d expect some kind of equity.

    footflaps
    Full Member

    Personally I’d go for the startup – small companies are a great experience, you normally get exposed to everything – HR, finance, customers, fund rasing, marketing, sales etc. Roles are rarely narrowly defined and evolve around people’s skill sets – if you’re a good communicator you could end up doing fund raising presentations to VCs or working direct with customers, things you’d never be exposed to in a large company.

    I’ve worked for small companies for the last 20 odd years and really enjoy the varied scope of work. One minute I’m hacking something in bash, the next week I’m on a plane to talk to the CEO / CTO of a potential customer to try and close a multi $m contract. I’d have never got that experience if I’d stayed in large multinationals.

    However, if you’re a real introvert and only want to code and hate talking to humans, probably pick a large corparate and just disapear into their manchinery.

    rsmythe
    Free Member

    Thanks everyone – some really useful insights here 🙂

    gary
    Full Member

    Hard to say objectively what the right option would be without more info. Footflaps has given a pretty good view of what it might be like. Some other angles below.

    The established company could be a route to a great deal of learning from experienced development teams, or a slow moving mess of legacy systems. Similarly the start up might be a great opportunity to get into an exciting new technology area, or he could inherit a horrific mess from the contractors.

    So for me, I’d choose startup – I’ve been in a small company for years and despite a lot of ups and downs, its consistently interesting. I would be looking to qualify the opportunity as others have described in terms of funding, and my ability to deliver it. And go into it eyes open that it could be short lived.

    It sounds as though he is going to end up with a great deal of responsibility for the product – is he up for that, and the stress, pressure and hours that might go with it? How does he feel about the possibility of having to get involved in the recruitment side if it goes well and he has to help grow the team? What if

    TheBrick
    Free Member

    If the business idea and team interest him and he the plan seem ok go for it. It might pay off really well in terms of experience and or money. If it doesn’t good developers are in demand and he will get a job again easily.

    footflaps
    Full Member

    Getting in on the ground floor of a start up is a great opportunity, which doesn’t come around often. Worst cae, it doesn’t work out, so just find another job (shoudln’t be hard for a SW Dev).

    Lots of startups don’t make it, but he’ll learn a hell of a lot working for a failing company. I know that sounds odd, but if you join a large company with everything in place, you sort of take it all for granted without realising which bits matter and why. When you don’t have much in place you quickly figure out what matters and why. It’s more work and more stress, but you’ll learn 10x more.

    Very much a blue pill / red pill sort of thing.

    Garry_Lager
    Full Member

    I’d say in general everyone should try that environment if they can – depends a lot on how institutionalised you’ve become if you’ve trained in a large corporate. A degree of institutionalisation is inevitable for everyone, but for some folk it is irreversible and they just won’t be able to handle the faster, more fragmented roles you need to take on in a startup. So you need to be honest with yourself but no one really knows unless they try I guess.

    The other thing that seems really important if you’re going in senior (my wife’s experience, not mine) is that there have to be at least one other senior Leader who is exceptional and whose judgement you trust implicitly. Ideally it would be the entire SLT but that’s prob expecting too much – but if you’re looking around and people are looking back at you as the only brilliant guy there then there’s trouble brewing.

    Rich_s
    Full Member

    Just an angle on the “ask for equity” thing. A very fast growing company I worked at rewarded the senior management with shares which might have been labelled B or C or some such. Couple of rounds of venture capital investment later, the directors (original shareholders) all buggered off with their millions leaving the remaining managers with zip. Apparently literally worthless, despite the company being bought and sold for hundreds of millions…
    So be careful and do your own research.
    Otherwise, the small company will be by far the more interesting, rewarding and hard work!

    poly
    Free Member

    lots of good advice above

    My brother is a young software developer with 5 years experience… …I’m not sure what to advise him really.

    if he’s got 5 years experience and he’s ready to be a team leader in a startup – I doubt he really needs your advice. He may be seeking your approval for doing something risky.

    At the start-up he will be trained to look after the code by existing contractors and then it will be his responsibility to maintain “in house”. He will be in charge of two apprentice graduates then, later, perhaps a junior developer (uni graduate, I assume). The owner of the company seems very keen to take him on.

    If you want to give him a reality check. He won’t be trained – he’ll be shown the code then the owner will think **** this I’m not paying two people to look after this and your bro will be in any the deep end sorting out someone else’s coding mess (which because they were a contractor they never had a vested interest in its long term maintainability!). He’ll either spend a few years in code hell trying to solve other people’s bugs or he’ll end up rewriting it.

    I think he has some reasonable concerns about the nature of working at a start-up: will the company exist 1 year in the future? Will the level of responsibility mean he is working an unhealthy amount to meet goals?

    Those are sensible questions to ask. However depending on his personal circumstances, he might decide it really doesn’t matter. Even in the current climate I frequently see developers leave a job on Friday and start a new one on Monday. Nobody will judge a startup going bust as a bad career experience on a CV. Similarly if he’s young and free stupid hours might be fun and challenging. If he’s married with kids then he need to set expectation and make sure he’s hiring good people when the time comes so he’s not spending his weekends fixing their crap.

    He’s also aware that it seems that to progress beyond a developer role in his career will involve some level of management, and that the current job offer provides an excellent opportunity for him to get that experience.

    I think this is where he’s wrong. Firstly devs can progress very well (both financially and career wise) without becoming people managers. In fact most devs are awful people managers. People management in startups is poor, and he will get no training in it, and his manager will not understand why he is not just able to do it. If he really wants to develop into a good people manager he’ll be better learning the ropes in the big company first.

    I’d say its more important that he’s comfortable working in an environment where:
    – job descriptions are mostly concepts rather than the delineation of work, expect to be assembling furniture, wiring networks, taking mail to the post office or umpteen other things that don’t seem like a dev job!
    – when it doesn’t work he’s going to have to fix it, there often isn’t a next person up to go to.
    – if you deliver late (or crap) the company’s fortunes and your friend’s futures may be at stake
    – if you don’t get on with others there is nowhere to hide, and no sideways reshuffle to another department
    – if he’s used to a serious agile approach, that half the official roles (product owner, scrum masters, BAs etc) will not be there for half the meetings because they are doing other stuff or just don’t exist.
    – someone else is hoping to get very rich from this (some will share that, many will not)

    joining fledgling companies in relatively senior positions. Pro’s, con’s, work/life balance etc. Obviously the specifics won’t be the same but any input would be great.

    I think one of the things to be aware is how senior will he really be. Team Leader is a title that’s easy to throw around. In startups its not uncommon for say in 2 yrs time some really senior guy to be parachuted in above you and much angst to be caused as he spends his time telling you everything you have is shit [if you are ever lucky enough to be hiring that guy – make sure he’s worked in a true start-up where nobody is sure if the credit card is going to bounce or he’ll never understand the decisions that were made at the time were not based on engineering judgement but reality]!

    My one deciding factor would be not the options or equity* (frankly the company will either be doing it for everyone at this stage or no one – a team lead about to supervise some apprentices is not senior enough that any investor/board is suggesting it just for this role) but the CEO (and any other senior roles) – do you like them, can you work with them, do they understand the tech, have they done anything like this before etc. The tech companies I see struggle (and I used to work in a building that incubated dozens of start-up so saw plenty) were either very naive (never run an actual business before or even a real project from concept to launch) or didn’t understand how their own tech worked in any detail – the worst is the non-techy who starts a company and throws some money at a contractor to build a prototype then expects it to be production-ready. Oh and 100% – do you like the tech, both the tech stack its built in and what its doing for the customer – if you find the language/framework frustrating and have no interest in the thing you are building you will only last a year.

    *Neither are worth anything – they are a trick to keep you in the business and make it hard to leave / get poached by other companies! Yes some people do get “rich” from them but that only happens IF the business growns enough to be sold AND the sale is on good terms AND you are still there (and possibly stay for a period after the sale etc) – except for the tiny percentage of tech firms which float and your brother’s opportunity is a long way from that!

    misteralz
    Free Member

    Working at a startup was one of the best experiences of my entire working life and I would do it again in a heartbeat. I was absolutely rigid about my hours because I knew if I wasn’t then all or nothing would be the expectation forever. But I knew that those hours would be mad and varied when I was there. I’m in engineering so slightly different, but one day I might have been wiring up our units and building test rigs in the morning, grabbing a pile of food from the chipper and then sitting in on interviews that afternoon. And picking up some random stuff on my drive home that was needed the next day.
    I lasted five years there, and saw us being bought out by a larger company. We got a purpose built office and workshop out of them, but we lost the fun.

    tonyg2003
    Full Member

    I’ve worked in a senior role in a start up and ran another start up, both of which were successful and eventually acquired. As part of my job now I look at acquisition opportunities for my employer, although none of that in computing.

    Looking at a start up to join you need to look at the company’s current situation (investment size? revenue stream? sales? cash burn rate?) and assess it’s business plan, the product (generic, disruptive?), look at the investors (track record of success?), senior people in the organisation (you will work with them closely) and try to make an assessment of the likelihood of it succeeding. Try to be dispassionate at this step and don’t fall for the “pitch”. Also look for equity.

    Having said that working for a fast growing successful start up with a group of like minded people was the best work experience I’ve had and even +10yrs later the group of people I used to work with still talk about how great the former company was.

    kcal
    Full Member

    I joined a startup – more or less startup anyway – straight from university over a big established company as developer. It was short-lived – lasted 7 weeks IIRC (@donald can confirm). I went for the safe option for a year in order to pay the mortgage, then joined a similar outfit – would also be classed as startup really).

    It was a roller-coaster trip, some great moments, some less glamorous moments, but definitely felt that is was everyone in it together – one year a bonus was awarded – east on – and it was flat rate across the company, from senior managers to receptionist. Nearly went bust (I think very close) and eventually sold out. Remained there for 20 odd years until made redundant.

    oikeith
    Full Member

    I think this is where he’s wrong. Firstly devs can progress very well (both financially and career wise) without becoming people managers. In fact most devs are awful people managers. People management in startups is poor, and he will get no training in it, and his manager will not understand why he is not just able to do it. If he really wants to develop into a good people manager he’ll be better learning the ropes in the big company first.

    Working for the startup sounds good and several posts confirm this, I would be wary of the people managing side of it, people managing can be hell if you’ve never done it before. I had some exposure to it years ago and when good its great, but when someone joins who needs micromanaging it can really ruin everything!

    footflaps
    Full Member

    A very fast growing company I worked at rewarded the senior management with shares which might have been labelled B or C or some such. Couple of rounds of venture capital investment later, the directors (original shareholders) all buggered off with their millions leaving the remaining managers with zip. Apparently literally worthless, despite the company being bought and sold for hundreds of millions…

    Not totally uncommon, each funding round normally creates a new class of shares with preference over previous classes with all sorts of insanely complicated rules about how money flows down the classes based on prices etc. Every time you get new money put in, old money gets dilluted. Quite often staff get offered some options in the latest round to prevent them being dilluted to zero, but not always. If a company gets sold the amount of spare money cascading down the share classes depends on the sale value vs the last funding valuation as normally there will be ‘a ratchet’ eg at a sale value undet $XXm, no money cascades below the highest share class. The longer you take to exit the less likely you are to walk away a millionaire – but that really shouldn’t be the reason you’re working there as it’s very unlikely it will happen. If you want to make money as a SW Dev, go and work for Google / Amazon, employees do very well out of share options (mean UK salary inc options is something insane like £250k).

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/apr/07/google-uk-staff-earned-average-of-234000-in-2019

    P-Jay
    Free Member

    Personally… I’d go for the Established Business.

    Although I’ve no experience in Software development I’ve worked at two start ups and the pattern was the same.

    In the early days, they’re always woefully understaffed, not always for the core work of the business, but the supplemental stuff, so I ended up doing 3 or 4 other roles in addition to my actual job. lots of work and additional stress, I had to be, at least, part entrepreneur, but the upside to all that was because I got in early, I was promised riches, perks and as the business grew more senior roles. It all starts getting a but ‘only fools’ because next year…

    Anyway, eventually ‘next year’ arrived and the businesses became profitable, and the mood changes. Suddenly “the business” needs to be more efficient, and all the wild promises of business jollies to far away lands, massive salaries and other perks are gone and almost over-night you’re working for a tiny corporate monster headed by people who rather like to be paid a lot of money from their business they built from nothing with their own bare hands. Bitter? Yes.

    If OP’s Brother likes the idea of working for a dynamic, exciting start-up then why not? It’s rarely dull, but if he’s being enticed with tales of great riches around the corner in exchange for a lot of extra graft now, ask them if he can have it in writing, nothing too restrictive, salary raises based on turnover, see how they react, if it’s a no, or a lot of fluff and bluster, assume it’s never coming and do the job you’re paid for.

    Conversely, I’ve worked for one of the largest and oldest Businesses in the UK, 250k staff at their peak. I was ‘just a number’ but in a soulless system that worked. If you wanted to be paid more, they gave you a simple to understand way to do it, if you wanted a promotion or different job, you got a simple to understand process for that too, learn the skills, take an interview and you’re done. You were never asked to do anything that wasn’t your job and whilst I did get made redundant eventually, the system, in conjunction with an excellent union made sure I was taken care of.

    toby1
    Full Member

    I was going to add my own experiences to this, but I think Poly did it already.

    Technical specialist OR Team leader in my experience.

    And Devs and tech people are rarely out of work for long. I got made redundant in March, by the time I left I had 2 offers to chose from, had a month off of payment in lieu of notice and the rest went into the bank. Start-up to Start-up for me, but Cambridge innit, the area is crawling with them 🙂

    northernmatt
    Full Member

    Not tech related (plumbers merchant for those that need to know) but the start-up I worked for I joined in their 3rd year – at this stage we were the 3rd branch. It started off pretty well, we had a lot more freedom than we would have had at a national merchant. Being part of a small team there was always the understanding that you did what needed to be done so I managed to ensconce myself into a niche of looking after the ERP that we were using. As time went on they opened more and more branches. Things then pretty much turned into the same experience P-Jay had, need to save money, cut costs, sell at higher margins etc. All the while the MD and other directors were milling round a brand spanking new head office building and driving Range Rovers, BMW X5’s and the like.

    Unluckily for them it was unsustainable and they very quickly found out that brand spanking new head office buildings are very expensive, as are your flashy SUVs. They folded in March last year as a result of massively overstretching themselves financially. Suppliers wouldn’t give them the extra credit they needed to service all the extra branches they were opening which drove customers away due to lack of stock on the ground. After that it was a foregone conclusion.

    I had wanted out from there once it started changing from being a proper start-up to being more like a much larger company. Would I do it again? Probably yes, working in a small team and getting to know a lot of different job roles was a really good experience.

    lunge
    Full Member

    I joined a recruitment start-up when I left uni, I was the first external hire by the 3 owners. I’d say there were good and bad.

    Good:

    Lots of initial progression, I moved upwards quicker than I would have in a smaller outfit.

    This was related to the increased responsibility early on. I going and meeting board members of FTSE companies within 12 months at 23 years old.

    Money. Poor base, but great bonus scheme and soft benefits.

    The management team. They truly cared about the success of the firm and the people within it, they worked super hard to make it happen.

    Bad:
    Training and support was non-existent. The founders were too busy running the business to train or support me, so almost all my learning was by listening and watching them.

    Money. Poor base, but great bonus scheme and soft benefits.

    Stagnation. I was there for a while, 12 years or so, but in truth they stopped growing around 6 years into that. With a small firm, when they grow, so do you but as soon as they stop you’re stuck. SO I had loads of early growth and then stagnated.

    The management team, they struggled to understand why people didn’t case as much as they did which at times was quite toxic.

    I’d go back to one again, but I’d be clear on their expectations and how they manage people.

    johnx2
    Free Member

    I find these threads fascinating. My take:

    “team leader” role at a small start-up company (few hundred £k turnover p/y).
    in charge of two apprentice graduates then, later, perhaps a junior developer

    …a pretty big slice of the company then?

    It tends unsurprisingly to be the folks who’ve put money in who take it out fwiw. It’s a great way to learn how organisations actually work, in microcosm.

    The owner of the company seems very keen to take him on.

    Personalities get magnified with pressure and folks, particularly young folks, can get sucked in by a bit of psychodrama. Keeps life interesting I guess. May not necessarily be a thing and people handle differently.

    oldnpastit
    Full Member

    I’ve worked for a very small startup. Overall I lost money compared to working for a bigger outfit, since they went under.

    With the benefit of hindsight, if you have even the slightest doubt about the technical abilities and the sales abilities of the CEO, then no matter how nice a person he is, walk away.

    Also, if they won’t offer stock options, walk away. Really not worth it in that case. Bear in mind that almost certainly any stock will be diluted massively as investors come in during the later funding rounds. That’s how it goes.

    The experience was almost worth it.

    sillysilly
    Free Member

    I’d say early in career it’s good to have both corporate and startup experience.

    Things to check all more important than the CEO at a startup:

    Runway: 12-18 months cash in bank.

    CTO: more important than CEO as a Dev. Make sure they are someone you respect from both a personal and technical perspective. They should still be hands on and want to help you upskill as you work. You will spend most of your time with this person rather than the CEO. If there is no CTO or the role is filled by a contractor run a mile.

    Product: Is it any good? Does it have paying customers? If the startup died tomorrow would any of the users / customers care?

    Revenue: is it growing quarter on quarter.

    Stock options: likely to be worthless, treat them as a lottery ticket but still make sure you get them if you’re going to go along for the ride. Make sure they are setup correctly under an EMI scheme rather than promised on the back of a napkin.

    Staff churn and culture: Ask how many people have left and why. Are the rest of the team any good / people you can get along with day to day.

    If all the above are present they shouldn’t find it too hard to find future investment.

    Never treat corporate as more stable than startup. Both types of co’s will cut headcount on a whim if required. At under 2yrs service you have no rights.

    Worked at multiple startups + big corps. Both are good if your boss, team, product and revenue are good. The CEO is meant to be hated no matter how good they are 😂😂

    mogrim
    Full Member

    I’d like to emphasise a point made above about working at a startup – the owner is everything. This is his/her baby, and they may well find it hard to understand if you just think it’s a job. Those insanely long hours? Well, who wouldn’t give everything to help The Company succeed? S/he’s an arsehole? There’s nowhere to hide. (On the flip side, of course, if the owner is great then it could be wonderful place to work…)

    Of course there’re are plenty of unpleasant bosses in large companies, too, but in a high-pressure environment like a startup it can be greatly magnified.

    That said, the risk is pretty limited if you’re a young SW developer. Jobs are pretty easy to come by, and if the worst happens you can easily walk away.

    DavidB
    Free Member

    If he aspires to run his own business in the future head off to the start up.

    I’ve run 2 start ups and also done two corporate stints. Learned nothing about actually running a business in the big organisations. There’s little stability in IT careers in big companies anymore. Senior management are constantly looking offshore. The advice on measuring up the owner is bang on, but I found many many arseholes hiding in plain sight in the corporate world.

    scuttler
    Full Member

    I’m about to chop a job in at a megacorp for something a lot leaner. Whilst it’s not a start up it’s essentially new / untested in the UK. I’m quite looking forward to it having worked for lean companies previously. I expect my responsibilities to be pretty broad but I’ve been doing flexible and home working a long time before it became cool or necessary so I think I’m ready.

    The ‘fail faster’ thing is a bit cheesy but I expect your bro will learn a lot more about himself and what makes him tick in the start up. If he’s any good (two offers, 15% payrise suggest he is) then if this doesn’t work out I very much doubt he’ll be in a pickle. Sure there are employee benefits to working in a large org but the bureaucracy can be very tiring and it’s ultimately the inability to ‘get stuff done’ or ‘make a difference’ that’s made me look elsewhere.

    bensales
    Free Member

    I worked for three startups over a period of 12 years when I was young and stupid. The end result has been I’m still owed 15k in salary by the second one, and my career has been set back about ten years. All the stock options and similar promises turned out to be meaningless.

    My recommendation for anyone at the start of an IT career is spend your twenties in one of the big consultancies. Learn your craft, get paid well and build a solid base, get exposed to more tech and businesses than you will anywhere else. Then if you want, take the risk of startups or contracting when you know what you’re doing. Even start something yourself.

    mattwilliams84
    Free Member

    Also want to say thanks for all the advice and shared experiences on this thread, especially the part about checking to see whether the company is genuinely wanting to build a useful product/service vs dabbling in something to try to get rich quick. The insight about success and expansion being likely to result in cost-cutting and a focus on profit margins was also really useful to hear about.

    Coincidentally, am reading the book ‘No Filter‘ about the rise of Instagram, covering the beginning and then the changes following the acquisition by Facebook, which I can recommend if you’re into tech and business non-fiction.

    NZCol
    Full Member

    I have had several startups, I’ve exited 5 of them in various ways. There are a number of tipping points when you build businesses and depending on your motivations you will get different things from them so no simple answer. It’s usually fun and you might make some money, you might not though and in general if you are in early then you probably need to be all in as that is the sort of mentality now i think. I’ve learnt many valuable lessons and made some epic cock ups , some more than once as well. The largest I sold at 300 people (from 3 at start) and it was either PE or full sale and I did not want PE to own it, worked out fine though.

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