Europe…

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  • Europe…
  • chewkw
    Member

    You see if the mainstream parties keep forcing on the masses agendas they don’t like they get voted out. Simple. It’s called Demoncracy. 🙄

    bencooper
    Member

    Golden Dawn being elected in Greece. It’s all pretty depressing, really.

    Politics can stand in the face of economics for only so long……

    ….uncomfortable trends for modern historians though.

    bikebouy
    Member

    Good results all round for the believers in Democracy, bad results all round for those that still think they can force decisions on “the little people”

    All good I say.

    Well people have been bemoaning the centralisation of modern politics recently. Will more extremes on both wings be any more palatable?

    Big gains for LW and RW populist parties with Eurocentric agendas.

    IanW
    Member

    Tony Blair, slippery weasel much loved around these parts definitely caused the end of the UK and possibly the EU who knows, he’s a ****.

    chewkw
    Member

    bencooper – Member
    Golden Dawn being elected in Greece. It’s all pretty depressing, really.

    That place does not need economy downturn to trigger right wing party surging in popularity because they are already fed up with boat people arriving in hundred if not thousands from North African. The govt is not doing much to prevent boat people because they want hand outs from EU so the people decide to vote them out. 😯

    It’s bad enough having Judy Finnigan Maire Le Pen all across the FT but Farrage across our broadsheets tomorrow as well……

    ninfan
    Member

    Lib dems could come out of this with no MEP’s 😯

    Premier Icon zippykona
    Subscriber

    I saw one result announced , I was absolutely stunned that the BNP got more than 100 votes. How the **** did they manage to find 18000 **** to vote for them.
    This country and apparently most of Europe had some serious problems.
    Fascism is hatred. Hatred is a circle. Stop it now.

    It’s all a bit 1930s isn’t it ? ……an economic crises with global reach, the rise of the right and nationalism in Europe, while the US swings to the left.

    That’s the scary bit Ernie IME. The Euro elite need to wake up, respond quickly and adapt rapidly. More likely they will try to dismiss….. 🙁

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    Looks like we might elect one of them but it’s still looking a lot less bawbag north of the border.

    Premier Icon somafunk
    Subscriber

    I’m watching it on BBC and i’m starting to wonder what sort of people choose to vote BNP and UKIP voluntarily, i sincerely hope it’s just a blip with regard to disillusionment within Europe rather than a rise of fascism but even so there are other ways of expressing your distrust with the current status.

    I just hope that UKIP do not get a seat in scotland but they’ve had blanket press coverage in the past few weeks and folk just may have been dumb enough to vote for them.

    I am always confident/hopeful that (a majority of) your countrymen remain a canny bunch NW 😉

    The BNP aren’t doing well, most of their support from the last EU election has gone. And I don’t think there’s much doubt that when people vote UKIP in EU elections they are knowingly voting against the EU.

    There has been increased support for parties hostile to the EU across Europe. And in the case of Slovakia only 13% bothered voting ffs. This appears to have been a bad election for those who support the EU.

    Conservatives offer referendum WHY! Haven’t we just voted on Europe.

    Judy Finnagan again!

    ….becoming increasingly sceptical and populist. Understandable but uncomfortable trends IMO.

    UKIP, FNP, Syriza,

    How will the mainstream parties react?

    chewkw
    Member

    Keep bashing UKIP for another year then see how far the main parties will do in the next election. 😈

    The small people don’t like your big idea in EU … go away! 😆

    Now that is a comb over!

    bencooper
    Member

    UKIP won a seat in Scotland. Thanks a lot, BBC.

    chewkw
    Member

    bencooper – Member

    UKIP won a seat in Scotland. Thanks a lot, BBC.

    Ya, but Scotland is going to be independent anyway so no much change really. :mrgreen:

    Premier Icon jambalaya
    Subscriber

    Politicians from the governing and opposition parties have not been listening to the voters, this is the result. Unless something changes this will only intensify.

    @ernie – the US has the right and the further right

    Premier Icon ratherbeintobago
    Subscriber

    Good results all round for the believers in Democracy

    Except the one mainstream UK party that supports a fair electoral system has been wiped out, and Twitter is full of Labour activists crowing about it.

    There has been increased support for parties hostile to the EU across Europe. And in the case of Slovakia only 13% bothered voting ffs. This appears to have been a bad election for those who support the EU.

    I think most people are pro free European trade if they think about it, but there’s huge dissatisfaction with the grand European project outside the pan-EU political elite.

    Premier Icon somafunk
    Subscriber

    Voter turnout in Scotland was 33.5%, if i had my way (just as well i don’t) i’d personally go round to every single one of the 66.5% of the non voters and say to them to gtf out, if they cannot be bothered to vote (or at least spoil/mark their papers otherwise) then they have no right to live in Scotland.

    It’s time to club together with a few mates and buy our own island and declare ourselves independent of the UK.

    Anyone in?, there is an island just off Carrick Bay in Kirkcudbrightshire that i think we could take at low tide, we’d have to kick the sheep off first but i doubt that’d be a problem. 😉

    @ernie – the US has the right and the further right

    I’m not entirely sure what that’s suppose to mean but at the start of the global crises/credit crunch the US had a right-wing Republican president, they replaced him with a more left-wing president, ie, they swung to the left.

    In contrast at the start of the global crises/credit crunch the UK had a right-wing Labour government, we replaced that with an even more right-wing conservative government, ie, we swung to the right.

    Today we have seen a further swing to the right with UKIP topping the euro polls. A simular situation has occurred across Europe.

    If you were attempting to suggest that my comment concerning “the rise of the right and nationalism in Europe, while the US swings to the left” was false, then I’m afraid that reality suggests otherwise.

    Except the one mainstream UK party that supports a fair electoral system has been wiped out, and Twitter is full of Labour activists crowing about it.

    I think by far the most satisfying aspect of an otherwise rather gloomy evening has been the knowledge that the LibDems have been hammered. I truly hope they never recover from this.

    chewkw
    Member

    I suggest the main stream parties keep banging on the good in EU as part of their general election campaign strategy. Be persistent by telling the voters they are wrong. 😆

    Premier Icon ratherbeintobago
    Subscriber

    I think by far the most satisfying aspect of an otherwise rather gloomy evening has been the knowledge that the LibDems have been hammered. I truly hope they never recover from this.

    On the contrary, it’s very sad. But it’s not clear whether it’s because they are the only party with a strongly pro-EU agenda at a time of increasing euroscepticism, or whether it’s a result of the coalition (I think the British public don’t necessarily understand coalition politics as it’s not something we’ve been used to; if you think what we’ve got is bad, imagine what a majority Tory government would be like…)

    I think the British public don’t necessarily understand coalition politics …

    That’s rather arrogant. Are you a Liberal Democrat ?

    .

    ….imagine what a majority Tory government would be like

    I don’t need to, because there was zero possibility of that, the Tories didn’t win the general election – remember ?

    The only reason they were able to form an effective government was because the LibDems helped them. There was never a possibility of the Tories forming a majority government.

    Your memory might be poor but the electorate, which you so contemptuously dismiss as ‘not understanding’, obviously have a better memory. And that’s why the LibDems are now getting hammered at every election.

    wiggles
    Member

    Yay more UKIP MEP’s to claim every expense possible and not turn up to anythings and vote against the EU regardless of the actual issue being voted on…

    Not to mention probably making the odd racist/sexist slurr in public now and again.

    /sarcasm

    Premier Icon irc
    Subscriber

    becoming increasingly sceptical and populist. Understandable but uncomfortable trends IMO.

    UKIP, FNP, Syriza,

    How will the mainstream parties react?

    As the winner of a national election UKIP are a mainstream party.

    Premier Icon irc
    Subscriber

    Yay more UKIP MEP’s to claim every expense possible and not turn up to anythings and vote against the EU regardless of the actual issue being voted on…

    An anti EU party voting against more EU regulations. Who’d ha ve thought it?

    atlaz
    Member

    An anti EU party voting against more EU regulations. Who’d ha ve thought it?

    that’s not what he said though, they vote against things even when it’s not about EU regulation in a negative way or just fail to get involved. Two examples:

    1, EU motion to clamp down on the ivory trade
    2, Despite crowing about the state of the UK fishing industry, Farage turned up to only 1 or 2 of 40+ meetings of the European Fisheries committee of which he was a member

    What UKIP actually do is claim expenses paid by UK taxpayers and don’t even represent those people according to UKIP’s own agenda. It’s unsurprising that people don’t read beyond the headlines and still vote for the people who not only drain money from the UK, but do it without any positive benefit for the UK.

    So the question is, what will UKIP in the UK, the FN in France etc actually do to return power to their countries if they abstain from the process?

    hora
    Member

    If it takes a Farage wedge to ease us out. So be it.

    We need high quality controlled immigration, open borders doesnt work for us.

    atlaz
    Member

    We need high quality controlled immigration, open borders doesnt work for us.

    Explain. With facts rather than repeated DM-style bluster please. Extra points if you’re able to show how the same open borders causes Germany the same problems.

    Premier Icon ratherbeintobago
    Subscriber

    I think the British public don’t necessarily understand coalition politics

    Explain to me how this is arrogant for reasons other than you saying so. It strikes me that there’s a lot of moaning from the left about broken promises (and going into coalition in the first place) and from the right about the Lib Dems being obstructive, which suggests there’s a lack of understanding about the need for compromise in coalition.

    You’re right that the Tories didn’t win the election outright but with no Lib Dem vote I suspect that’s what would have happened.

    EWe need high quality controlled immigration, open borders doesnt work for us.

    How would that work, then?

    Premier Icon cloudnine
    Subscriber

    How would that work, then?

    wiggles
    Member

    An anti EU party voting against more EU regulations. Who’d ha ve thought it?

    Atlaz already explained my point. UKIP have the worst attendance record of all MEPs in the entire EU then even if they do turn up they will vote against anything which gives more powers to the EU regardless of the circumstances, as in the ivory example given.

    They really are not going to anything to make any changes happen. Peoe just seem to think that if you want the country to leave the EU then you had to vote for UKIP and there was no other option….

    Explain to me how this is arrogant …..

    If you can’t see how suggesting that the “British public don’t necessarily understand coalition politics” but that you on the other do, is rather arrogant, then I’m afraid I won’t be able to explain it to you.

    Perhaps you like to explain to me how it isn’t arrogant ?

    You’re right that the Tories didn’t win the election outright but with no Lib Dem vote I suspect that’s what would have happened.

    With no LibDem vote Labour’s share would have increased. There isn’t much evidence that most previous LibDem voters would have voted Tory as a second choice. In fact the evidence suggests the opposite, ie, that most LibDem voters have a specific dislike of Tories.

    Which explains to a great extent why ever since the LibDems jumped into bed with the Tories they have been hammered in the polls.

    Premier Icon ratherbeintobago
    Subscriber

    With no LibDem vote Labour’s share would have increased. There isn’t much evidence that most previous LibDem voters would have voted Tory as a second choice.

    Even with people tactically voting LD?

    I agree with you that a Lib-Lab coalition would have been a much more natural fit, but there were two fairly major problems there (one being Gordon Brown, and the other being that Lab didn’t have enough MPs to make it work).

    the “British public don’t necessarily understand coalition politics” but that you on the other do, is rather arrogant,

    Bear in mind that, not being old enough to remember our last coalition government (ie. WW2) this is my first experience of coalition government too. I don’t pretending to understand it any better than the next person.

    UKIP have the worst attendance record of all MEPs in the entire EU

    That sounds awful……how did they manage to come first in the European elections last Thursday ?

    And how did the party who are most enthusiastic about the EU manage to come fifth, when on the same day they got twice as many votes in the local English elections ?

    Premier Icon ratherbeintobago
    Subscriber

    That sounds awful……how did they manage to come first in the European elections last Thursday ?

    Protest voting? It will be interesting to see what happens in the general election next year…

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