EU Referendum – are you in or out?

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  • EU Referendum – are you in or out?
  • mefty
    Member

    They are not lending money, they are effectively exchanging types of collateral.

    Premier Icon Lifer
    Subscriber

    What’s that damp smell in here?

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Have those stroppy buggers in Dublin not agreed to David Davis’ magic fairies border solution yet?

    Premier Icon GrahamS
    Subscriber

    It’s almost as if these reports hadn’t actually existed and they’ve had to bodge them together at the last minute.

    No, that can’t be right.

    At the end of October that nice Mr David Davis told the select committee that Mrs May and the rest of the cabinet couldn’t possibly have time to read all the reports because “they are in excruciating detail”

    Edukator
    Member

    By any reasonable measure they are “lending”. Dressing up things as what they aren’t is a bankers speciality which was at the heart of the sub-prime crisis. Check out what fannie Mae was doing with its balance sheets in 04 and the run up to the sub prime crisis. Paying particular attention to the role of and actions of the Fed. Mark Haines did some excellent reporting on CNBC – the only RIP thread I’ve ever started if you check my forum history.

    mrlebowski
    Member

    It’s just plain nasty the way you try to distort everything I post.

    Take it as a compliment – its most likely because he knows you’re right but darent admit it..

    deadlydarcy
    Member

    Have those stroppy buggers in Dublin not agreed to David Davis’ magic fairies border solution yet?

    thm is your man to answer that – he said there were domestic difficulties interfering with their policy on Brexit, NI Border, etc. etc. But he just won’t answer what it is he thinks they are and how they’re affecting policy.

    teamhurtmore
    Member

    So after all this…

    A new level of stupidity from you, THM. Anyone on this forum can Google that an see that “nope” is false as in incorrect as a provocative ignoring of the facts.

    We have used both Google and the Bank of England website to conclude that not only was your first observation was wrong but also:

    Freddy and Fannie were exclusively financed by the Fed. The BOE is a major lender to British

    Nope ^2

    So that was a lot of emotion and abuse to establish that you were merely posting incorrect things again. No apology necessary.

    Premier Icon kilo
    Subscriber

    Domestic issues in Ireland effecting their policy on Brexit and influencing the headlines, you were merely posting incorrect things again. No apology necessary.

    teamhurtmore
    Member

    Domestic issues in Ireland effecting their policy on Brexit

    Good job no one said that isn’t it

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Hmm… just when I was wondering if THM had anything other than trolling in mind in this thread. No more feeding.

    teamhurtmore
    Member

    Just interested in factual debate on Eu referendum, kelvin.

    Not my fault if people post rubbish and then get abusive about it. You will note the lack of #xyzbollocks unlike before. Despite even greater levels of bollocks being posted and by the posse members

    deadlydarcy
    Member

    Good job no one said that isn’t it

    You said:

    Of course the Irish headlines have no link to domestic difficulties at the moment….,

    And you’ve steadfastly refused to clarify what you meant. The “Irish headlines” you talked about – because we know you like to dismiss anything inconvenient as “noise” – are not just “headlines”. They are the Taoiseach and Foreign Minister’s statements on Ireland’s approach to upcoming talks on whether talks on trade can proceed.

    But, forget all that…because you’ll swerve it instead of agreeing.

    Just say what you meant by:

    Of course the Irish headlines have no link to domestic difficulties at the moment….,

    Is there any reason you really don’t want to answer this question or further clarify it? C’mon, I’m bored of reading about banks etc. This stuff actually matters a lot to the upcoming talks.

    Edukator
    Member

    We have three bankers on this thread, all posting grossly misleading stuff on both Brexit and the banking system. When non-bankers link plain English quotes from sources as reliable as the Bank of England they still rubbish it with statements as obtuse as Mefty’s:

    They are not lending money, they are effectively exchanging types of collateral.

    The BOE states simply that it’s lending money to banks and explains how.

    I’m not sure why I’ve bothered to post links to show Jamba was distorting the truth; how THM is accusing me of lying when I’m right according to higher authorities than his bank; how Mefty tries to dress stuff up in fancy language but is still plain wrong. They never allow facts to change their minds, all that matters to them is making money.

    They’re bringing their industry into disrepute, making me think my money might be better invested in an empty field and doing the STW forum a power of no good in the same way as a guy posting “puff” to every newbie on BM. THM complains about bullying and does everything he can to belittle and bully adversaries.

    The thread is a mess and it’s contaminating the rest of the forum. I think I’m up to five post reports today. I was trying to get a moderator onto the thread to discuss what what’s happening in here. Nothing so far. If I’m one of the people considered guilty of negative use of the forum I’m happy to be kicked off along with any others.

    Perhaps this thread is a reflection of the way people now behave with each other in the UK. It’s now my only contact with the UK as my last remaining real life friends within the UK ground to a halt as the people were overtly anti-EU. Family on Madame’s side (remainers) report bust ups with life-long friends and having to have two groups of aquaintances that they never bring together – Brexiters and Remainers.

    On el Camino we discussed Trump with Americans, separatism with Catalans and people from Madrid, the Troubles with a Irish guy, religion, politics… and just one person went off in a huff and refused to speak – a Brit with with extraordinary views on Corbyn and Brexit. Everyone else was capable of discussion and dialogue without spouting extreme views and then going off on one.

    Britain needs to sign up for the Bac philosophy course and have a good hard look in the mirror because what 27 countries are looking at is ugly. Europeans aren’t stupid, they see they UK headlines and feel threatened – British politicians are making it so clear what their vision is that Europeans can see the potential harm to continental Europe. Britain is changing from an ally to an economic enemy – it’s all there in the British press and the statements by Brexit politicians.

    I was really saddened by the Brexit vote, a year and a half on I think the hardest possible Brexit is the best for me and my family. I can no longer play with my double nationality, Brexit has forced me to make a choice. I’m European and Britain is just a dirty dealing rival state that threatens the quality of life in France and other countries that must refuse a race to the bottom.

    Take care.

    teamhurtmore
    Member

    You are simply missing one point. You keep posting stuff that is untrue and it is you that then becomes abusive when this is pointed out

    You should also be careful about claiming what people’s professions are as I know for certain that in one case you are incorrect again

    If you are want to believe that insisting on facts is bringing an industry into disrepute then so be it. You are perfectly entitled to your opinion however misguided it may be. But don’t expect those who you regularly abuse to ignore it – it’s much better if people know the real truth

    Junkyard
    Member

    They’re bringing their industry into disrepute

    IMPOSSIBLE

    I agree on the pointlessness of this thread its largely seeing how much we can get away with insults without a ban

    Occasionally folk try to drag the troll into a debate but he steadfastly refuses to give into the bullies.
    PFTLT

    Premier Icon metalheart
    Subscriber

    @deadly @kelvin @edukator

    Seriously, you expect answers? That’s not his style, any direct question he just diverts off on to something else. It’s the reason I gave up trying to engage with him months ago.

    I’m just waiting for some more of his hilarious put downs, like nippy Nicky or gNats. Oh, my. Sides.

    He who pays the piper (and all that). Hey, deadly & Edukator, if you two promise to jump to my defence I’ll maybe gift you boys subs myself 😆

    Premier Icon sr0093193
    Subscriber

    You keep posting stuff that is untrue and it is you that then becomes abusive when this is pointed out

    Premier Icon metalheart
    Subscriber

    PFTLT

    Pregnant for the last time?
    Pray for times like this?

    Fits at yer sayin, eh?

    mrlebowski
    Member

    +1 Edukator, +1…..

    teamhurtmore
    Member

    THM – my very tongue in cheek comment was really just to say that as far as I can see banks are market makers providing the elasticity (in the non-economics sense) that allows borrowers and lenders to trade.

    Well yes and no and I will pardon the use of elasticity! 😉

    They will take one trade (borrowing you say and I don’t know enough to argue) and then seek another trade or series of trades to back it off against.

    I think you might mean lending rather than borrowing since its the banks client that is normally the borrower

    Sometime they hold the position on their balance sheet, sometimes they sell it and sometimes they hedge it or leave it unhedged it depends on the bank and the loan in question

    They are not an introductions agency for borrowers and lenders.
    Am I in the ballpark?

    Well they certainly intermediate between the two. The BoE piece that rone referred to explains that while this is true it’s not in the form that is commonly though. Banks do not take money in and then lend it out despite what textbooks tell you. They lend money and this then created a deposit. Having said that thtey have to keep deposits to fund their assets and they make money from the difference between what they pay in deposits and borrowings – their real funding – and the money they receive from the borrowers.

    And don’t call me sane – if you’d met me you’d know…

    I think it’s very clear that you are sane!

    Junkyard
    Member

    if you two promise to jump to my defence I’ll maybe gift you boys subs myself

    Superb well played

    Fits at yer sayin, eh?

    second one is close but the t is troll

    Damn my cryptic messages/Letters are still more comprehensible than his posts 😯

    Premier Icon jambalaya
    Subscriber

    We have three bankers on this thread, all posting grossly misleading stuff on both Brexit and the banking system

    Sigh.

    I typed a longish explanation to you Edukator. If the three “bankers” here are saying one thing and you another re banking it’s quite likely you are the one posting “grossly misleading stuff” – no ? As I said to you I traded US Mortgage bonds (Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and Ginnie Mae included) for Goldman in NY for 3 years as well as working for 11 years at one of the worlds most diverse and international organisations (Stan Chart) with a specialty in global trade finance a sector I have particular investment expertise in. We all have our opinions, mine are based on 35 years of first hand experience in these sectors.

    BTW Mefty’s list should have included Standard Chartered 0 too.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    Well it’s been easier to skip the large scale smoke screen of posts arguing technicalities while ignoring the questions about gross government incompetence and difficult questions about Ireland. When in doubt steer the conversation the other way. There are some very uncomfortable facts out there, the government is being caught in its lies and its ideas are being stripped of any credibility. If only we had known this before #ProjectFact

    deadlydarcy
    Member

    Seriously, you expect answers?

    No. Of course I’d like to see one, but I know it’s not coming. But it’s a fun exercise in demonstrating thm’s approach when one of his “it’s all just noise” comments is questioned. I’ve been asking for 3 or 4 pages now (this does not require any great effort btw) and a simple clarification is unforthcoming. Quitlings don’t like being made to squirm – but it’s fun seeing them do so.

    mrlebowski
    Member

    If the three “bankers” here are saying one thing and you another re banking it’s quite likely you are the one posting “grossly misleading stuff” – no ?

    Demands for the truth coming from you??

    Oh the irony…….

    mattyfez
    Member

    Have the heavily censored brexit impact studies been released yet?

    I seem to remember they are due tomorrow..

    It was an order of parliament, so the government could be held in contempt if they are not careful, sovereign Parliament and all that. Wasn’t that the whole point of brexit in the first place?

    Premier Icon jambalaya
    Subscriber

    [ welcome back to this thread Jamba… everyone else – let’s keep this civil and polite at all times, please ]

    Thanks @Kelvin sentiment appreciated. I think I initially said a 2month break although I think its been more like 3?

    TBH I just read it to see if there is any abuse that needs reporting.

    I said a while back (April?) that IMO nothing much would happen until after the French and German elections. What I didn’t expect was a “non-result” in Germany. IMO there will be no “sufficient progress” (a made up smoke and mirrors term which can mean just about anything and thus suits the EU perfectly) until Merkel forms a coalition or there is a decisive new election result and that could be a very long time indeed.

    We have said quite clearly there will be no hard border in Ireland. The EU may well force one on the Irish side, that’s something we can do nothing about. The EU wants the UK’s hands tied on signing external free trade deals as every new deal means less export business for them as new counterparties inevitably take some of their “market share”. The best way to tie our hands is try and drag us into one of their “off the shelf” existing trade arrangements and they are shamelessly using the Irish border issue to try and restrict us.

    This is quite long but IMO just about worth the read (in particular as it highlights one of my long standing concerns – that the EU would find a way to legally ensnare the UK in any future euro bailout no matter what various agreements said – was shared by Cameron)

    https://www.politico.eu/article/ivan-rogers-david-cameron-speech-transcript-brexit-referendum/

    Junkyard
    Member

    redacted versions were sent today and “sensitive information”* withheld

    * the secret bits that say it will be shit, no one really knows this yet, so dont tell the EU

    let’s keep this civil and polite at all times, please ]

    It has not been anything like this for the last few hundred pages anyway

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    We have said quite clearly there will be no hard border in Ireland

    Aaand yet we are leaving the customs union….

    Premier Icon igm
    Subscriber

    Jamba – good to see you back. I’ll pick a fight with you over something later I’m sure, but for now I absolutely genuinely mean it, welcome back, I enjoy arguing with you.

    Premier Icon igm
    Subscriber

    Anyway, back to the real business. Will DD (not you deadly) find himself in contempt of parliament (as opposed to just most remainers and about half the Brexies – though for different reasons)?

    deadlydarcy
    Member

    TBH I just read it to see if there is any abuse that needs reporting.

    I thought you just paid thm to do all that for you.

    😉
    Etc.

    Premier Icon Leku
    Subscriber

    Have the heavily censored brexit impact studies been released yet?

    David Davis has been told he could be in contempt of parliament after his department heavily edited government analyses on the impact of Brexit on 58 industrial sectors before handing them to a select committee.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/27/mps-attack-david-davis-for-handing-over-redacted-brexit-reports

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    i side with Jam on the abuse point. You might think he’s wrong, but you can disagree politely but firmly. And the thread needs all points of view.

    However I’d also like to see Jam acknowledge the questions he cannot answer and admitting it, rather than just going quiet. We are all floundering in the dark, reaching for things that will back up our emotive points of view, so let’s be honest.

    This would be a good thread if we could properly discuss how the government, the oppo and the EU are handling it, rather than shouting hyperbole.

    Premier Icon metalheart
    Subscriber

    We have said quite clearly there will be no hard border in Ireland.

    Gwan, someone, explain to me exactly how we are to stop any old fuzzywuzzy or other who has wondered in to the shengan area from going to Ireland, crossing the ‘border’ and then heading off to good old Blighty for a jolly whenever they bally feel like it (with no hard border to stop them)?

    Premier Icon slowoldman
    Subscriber

    Fairies with computers isn’t it?

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    I think I initially said a 2month break although I think its been more like 3?

    Good discipline. I promised myself I’d stay out of it ’till 2018! A personal failure. I was back after about 6 weeks.

    The EU may well force one on the Irish side, that’s something we can do nothing about.

    Did you read my FT link about how WTO rules mean that we have to sort our side of the customs border in the result of not having a trade deal with the EU?

    Premier Icon kilo
    Subscriber

    jambalaya – Member
    We have said quite clearly there will be no hard border in Ireland.

    Well former disgraced etc Fox actually said “We don’t want there to be a hard border but the UK is going to be leaving the customs union and the single market.” which isn’t the same thing

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    Welcome back Jam, the thread was in need of some more comic relief.
    Anything more than it’s all the EU’s fault for not agreeing with everything the UK wants yet?
    Irish border is one of the hardest issues to solve, stating a position that is not compatible on many levels and ignoring it won’t work.

    This would be a good thread if we could properly discuss how the government, the oppo and the EU are handling it, rather than shouting hyperbole.

    It’s very clear they are not handling it at all, the redacted/non existent reports, the clearly divided party doing it’s infighting in public while trying to engineer a leadership battle and the inflammatory and contradictory statements from ministers tell us that clearly.

    As for the opposition practically all they can do is propose amendments (I’m classing the more sane tories in that camp too) and try and get the numbers, each time May has to 3 line whip it more anger builds within her own party as she tries to please both sides. They should spend their time working on the best course of action going forward and putting personal belief to one side.

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