EU Referendum – are you in or out?

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  • EU Referendum – are you in or out?
  • Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Of course the Irish headlines have no link to domestic difficulties at the moment….

    Is this a reference to the DUP propping up our government?

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    So the conclusion to all this NI stuff is?
    Fox an Davis don’t communicate?
    Fox doesn’t understand that the UK agreed to sort out the NI border first?
    Fox is trying to take the talks down?

    Other thoughts welcome there but it’s a bit late to start complaining about the rules of the game. If only everybody else realised how (self) important the UK is then maybe they would just role over and give us everything we want.

    Junkyard
    Member

    Fox is either
    1) after WTO and wants any form of negotiation to stop hence his position
    2) thick as two short planks and does not understand the process
    3) Both 1 and 2

    perditus
    Member

    Don’t forget Fox has previous on wanton to serve the UK on a platter to the US.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Atlantic_Bridge

    Premier Icon Poopscoop
    Subscriber

    reluctantlondoner – Member
    Some magnificent whataboutery here https://eand.co/the-rise-and-fall-of-nations-6ff1d9a6b044 to combat THM’s whataboutery yesterday with regards to Sweden’s housing bubble.

    It’s a good piece from American economist Umair Haque – he’s always worth reading.

    That link is a short but a damned good read.

    We are doing exactly as the guy says. Sacrificing the poor and the old to the out dated God of Austerity and what we think is good economics… All she while spiralling downward as a society.

    Sorry, the link encompasses more than Brexit but it really chimed with me.

    Thanks for posting it reluctantlondoner.

    Premier Icon Poopscoop
    Subscriber

    Back onto Brexit proper, from that Guardian article:

    They (Brexiteers) have known since 29 April, when the European commission issued its negotiating guidelines, that credible proposals on the Irish border were a basic condition that had to be satisfied before trade talks could start. This could not have been more explicit.

    Are our politicians really just that stupid??

    They have know for for MONTHS that the border issue had to be sorted and now, when it isn’t, it’s Ireland’s fault, or the EU’s fault!

    Brexit is a bad enough idea in itself without these morons trying to “negotiate” it.

    Premier Icon teamhurtmore
    Subscriber

    Excerpt poops for the small detail on austerity that is at the core of the mistaken article.

    The author – either deliberately or not – ignores the fact that fiscal policy in the EU has been more contractionary than in the UK and that this EU imposed genuine austerity – not our fake version – on countries in the middle of genuine recessions. The worst possible idea that condemned those countries to unnecessary social and economic hardship (sacrificing the old and the poor) in the name of The Project. That’s before we talk about the abuse of democracy

    Are so called economists really that stupid (to publish such embarrassing clap trap)?

    Edukator
    Member

    EU imposed genuine austerity –

    In fact it was the banks that were at the start of the problem, including no doubt yours, THM. Those countires couldn’t service their debt because bank interst rates went sky high. The EU could have solved this with Eurobnds and central bank lending at very low rates before the situation got to where it did but didn’t. The conditions that were applied ammounted to austerity which wasn’t constructive but the origin of the problem was the banks due to the chaos caused by sub prime (a crisis entirely created by the bank) and good old profiterring with interest rates. The banks traded bonds in a race to see who could make the most money without being left with a worthless asset. Some were and then the EU stepped in to help th eidiots out by buying wothless debt of the stupid banks.

    Your industry is collectively responsible for the crisis and austerity in many countries and you have the cheek to blame the EU.

    As well as crying “austerity” you also criticise “monetary easing” which is the opposite. Hypocrisy.

    Premier Icon sr0093193
    Subscriber

    not our fake version

    Meanwhile in the real world….

    DrJ
    Member

    this EU imposed genuine austerity – not our fake version – on countries in the middle of genuine recessions. The worst possible idea that condemned those countries to unnecessary social and economic hardship

    And yet it is to that EU that we gave all the trump cards in our negotiation, on the basis that they will agree with us that “trade comes first” and come to the optimum compromise. On the contrary, in many places the EU considers that “politics comes first” – in the case of the NI border, at least, rightfully so – so our hopes are likely to be dashed.

    Premier Icon teamhurtmore
    Subscriber

    Ed – you might want to understand why Eurobonds didn’t happen (and who blocked them) the difference between bank financing and bond financing and most importantly the difference between monetary and fiscal policy. Then your posts might start to make a bit more sense and you would understand how silly your “hypocrisy” accusation is. Not that I expect you to bother with either facts or accuracy mind. Amusing tirade nonetheless

    Dr you are correct the EU places politics over economics which is why they fail to deliver. Economics always wins in the end. Just a matter of timing

    thecaptain
    Member

    Brexit is the ne plus ultra of putting politics before economics.

    Premier Icon teamhurtmore
    Subscriber
    Edukator
    Member

    the difference between bank financing and bond financing

    Often one and the same thing. Central banks issue bonds and the money raised is lent to banks.

    Edukator
    Member

    A new level of stupidity from you, THM. Anyone on this forum can Google that an see that “nope” is false as in incorrect as a provocative ignoring of the facts.

    Freddy and Fannie were exclusively financed by the Fed. The BOE is a major lender to British banks:

    http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/markets/Pages/FLS/default.aspx

    Junkyard
    Member

    imposed genuine austerity – not our fake version – on countries in the middle of genuine recessions.

    As each day passes you become more like jamby using arguments you dont actually agree with just to attack the EU 🙄 When have you ever argued for big govt, increased debt and Keynesian spending rather than balancing the books, reducing the deficit and smaller govt?

    PS any date on when the EZ collapses or when you stop predicting it?

    deadlydarcy
    Member

    Of course the Irish headlines have no link to domestic difficulties at the moment….,

    No chance, I suppose, that you’d clarify what you meant by this thm?

    deadlydarcy
    Member

    any date on when the EZ collapses

    Already happened JY.

    *taps nose*

    Premier Icon kilo
    Subscriber

    teamhurtmore – Member
    Dr you are correct the EU places politics over economics which is why they fail to deliver. Economics always wins in the end. Just a matter of timing

    For sure, that’s why the guns were (sort of ) put away in the north, lower interest rates and fluctuations in economic activity.

    deadlydarcy
    Member

    Free Trade brought peace to Northern Ireland.

    Bespoke Access to the market south of the border will ensure peace continues. 🙂

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Subscriber

    kilo – Member
    teamhurtmore – Member
    Dr you are correct the EU places politics over economics which is why they fail to deliver. Economics always wins in the end. Just a matter of timing
    For sure, that’s why the guns were (sort of ) put away in the north, lower interest rates and fluctuations in economic activity.

    😆

    Premier Icon jambalaya
    Subscriber

    Edukator please stop. Based on what you are posting TMH has been very polite to you. You seem to know a little but you do not have even a layman’s understanding of the topic.

    YGM

    Premier Icon teamhurtmore
    Subscriber

    Cmon Jambas where would we be without Ed’s comedy. This thread verges on serious occasionally and that’s not always a good thing

    A new level of stupidity from you, THM.

    Why thank you. I try so hard to fit in. You do set the bar so low that it’s hard at times.

    Anyone on this forum can Google that an see that “nope” is false as in incorrect as a provocative ignoring of the facts.

    They can google and make their own minds up. You were wrong again but google will show that to all. But given your track record I doubt people would bother to check. That is a given.

    Freddy and Fannie were exclusively financed by the Fed. The BOE is a major lender to British banks:

    QED 😯

    deadlydarcy
    Member

    Can someone buy me a premier subscription for Christmas please?

    Edukator
    Member

    Jamba’s back! The two banking trolls posting things they know to be false to wind up the “laymen” they look down on except this laymay got excellent economics grades at university and ran a real business in the real world well enough to give up work at 42.

    THM was extremely impolite rubbishing a factually correct statement with “nope”. I consdidered milder responses but decided that I would be happy to defend my post at the top of this page if I recieved a message from the moderation team.

    You misrepresented the truth through the first few hundred pages of theis thread Jamba, I linked repsectable articles to demonstrate what you wrote was misleading and a misrepresentation of the truth on many occasions. THM is now rubbishing my statements on how banks borrow from central banks. He is plain wrong and yet posts a provocative “nope”. He is also winding up Darcy on the Irish issue, and the forum in general by sniping rather than contributing.

    Read back through the last 20 pages and try to find an example of where THM has made positive use of the forum to contribute in apositive way to the debate bringing reliable information to the table.

    Both yourself Jamba, and THM make negative use of this forum and dressing up your abuse with frilly Ps and Qs doesn’t make it any less offensive.

    *reports own post. Edit – I can’t report my own post so I’ll report THM’s “nope”.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Time to increase our understanding please you two (Jamaba&THM)… please describe how central banks work as regards lending money to banks… or explain how/why they do not, if that is the case (which it isn’t, in my very limited layman’s understanding).

    [ welcome back to this thread Jamba… everyone else – let’s keep this civil and polite at all times, please ]

    sobriety
    Member

    dressing up your abuse with frilly Ps

    Although I suspect it does mean they’re less likey to get banhammered, it’s probably a price worth paying to their handlers 😉

    Premier Icon dazh
    Subscriber

    THM and Jamba once again miss the point about what’s going on. You guys can lecture all you want about bank financing, balancing the books, make believe austerity etc but people don’t GAS. All they know – and they do know – is that they are getting poorer whilst a tiny minority at the top gets richer. The more you guys tell the proles what isn’t possible, the more angry and more radical they become. What happens when the great unthinking public finally realises that brexit was a sham sold to them to distract from the real problem? Corbyn and McDonnell could be the least of your worries.

    DrJ
    Member

    For sure, that’s why the guns were (sort of ) put away in the north, lower interest rates and fluctuations in economic activity.

    You missed the point – dead people don’t matter where MONEY is concerned!

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Bravissimo – I’ve got you a power kite and one of those ceramic poppies 😀

    Premier Icon matt_outandabout
    Subscriber

    What happens when the great unthinking public finally realises that brexit was a sham sold to them to distract from the real problem?

    Another bloody election probably. 🙄

    At least that will be the end of the Tories.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    How about a specific… how does the the Term Funding Scheme work, and do we all except that it was a key intervention by the BoE to reduce (or I’d argue, as an opinion not fact, delay) the impact of the referendum result on both investment and growth in the UK? Is it an example of a central bank lending to banks? Is it a rare exception? As a layman, I don’t know enough about these things.

    Edukator
    Member

    As for Jamba and THM keeping it civil.

    Sniping, taking the Micky, talking down to, sneering, sarcasm, rubbishing factually correct statements… . I’ve typed the others before so I’ll leave it there is neither polite nor civil. In fact “Edulator please don’t ” is just another high handed Micky take from a serial Micky taker.

    This thread is a mess, and it’s a mess because a couple of bankers are colluding in winding up reasonable, talented and perceptive people. But these same perceptive people are aware of what’s going on. And this percveptive person is weary of having debate stiffled by a couple of Micky taking bankers.

    Premier Icon teamhurtmore
    Subscriber

    Ed, you even make stuff up about DD

    Remember that unlike Jambas, I am a remainer (but not an undemocratic remoaner). If you want to pretend that claiming that we need to know th format of our future access to the single market before we can determine the nature of the NI border is winding up Darcy then so be it. Darcy seems a much bigger boy who is perfectly capable of looking after himself without you lying on his behalf. His sneering is also far more refined and entertaining than your outright abuse.

    Please report my (factually correct) nope since there are no rules against correcting false statements in a brief manner. You continue to make false points – TBF they seem to be more due to not understanding than outright lies, but the effect is the same. You should use google more selectively as you are merely confusing yourself and potential and more worryingly confusing others (that could be intentional).

    Kelvin – banks fund themselves via deposits and borrowings.They are not financed by governments. In the case of Freddie and Fannie they have lines of credit from governments but their main funding comes from securitising the mortgages. That’s

    mrmo
    Member

    anyway, more important things there is going to be a royal wedding, huzzar.

    panem et circenses.

    Premier Icon dissonance
    Subscriber

    Remember that unlike Jambas, I am a remainer (but not an undemocratic remoaner).

    I wasnt aware democracy meant one vote and thats it?
    Outside of within certain extremist parties who do actively take the line of getting power and then ending democracy.
    Why do people keep taking this blatantly anti democractic line and then insulting people who disagree (all the while whining about being insulted).

    deadlydarcy
    Member

    Wow – compliments even when I haven’t paid for a subscription. 😀

    Anyway, any chance of an answer as to why Irish headlines would be hinting to domestic difficulties?

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    Remember that unlike Jambas, I am a remainer (but not an undemocratic remoaner).

    There was a vote to join, shut up and get on with it.

    Anyway back to the amazing demonstration of negotiating skills on display, either you all speak with one voice (or else undermine the process) or any side swipes from the likes of Liam the disgraced former many things Fox about not doing what you agreed to do at the start of the negotiations should be sanctioned from the top.

    Anything else is evidence there is nobody actually running the show, I guess that is what is making these negotiation take so long that and all the reviews of the cake menu.

    Premier Icon teamhurtmore
    Subscriber

    Ed we have had 000s of pages of debate. That you are struggling to fit in is perhaps due to your ability to post stuff that is incorrect on a continued basis. Today is just another example.
    .

    Sort that out and you will be fine…..but we will miss out on a smile which would be a shame.

    You need to be carful who you are calling bankers too. Some people don’t like that negative term. It’s very emotive.

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