EU Referendum – are you in or out?

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  • EU Referendum – are you in or out?
  • oldmanmtb
    Member

    Plan for the worst hope for the best…

    Built my Brexit bunker and if it gets worse than my worst view I have a Brexit 2.0 contingency plan.

    Junkyard
    Member

    Team Hurtmore wrote:

    I’m not. I see this so am getting in with making the best of what is in front of us. No point remaining in denial for ever

    How?

    It hasn’t happened and we do not know the terms yet.

    Given this how are you preparing for it?

    Edukator
    Member

    Probably reducing risk exposure to the UK

    Premier Icon igm
    Subscriber

    Guardian, THM. Remainder fodder. Can trust it if you’re a want to get on with it Brextremist. 😉

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    So Kristian Jensen is a sensible European politican? Great, let’s dig out some more of his quotes… I seem to recall some real corkers on the issue in hand… I’m off to search them out…

    Top of the search results was a Guardian story… so let’s start with that shall we…
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/14/road-to-brexit-is-paved-with-amusement-danish-and-brave-faces-british

    The target of the ambassador’s broadside was Kristian Jensen, the 46-year-old golden boy of Danish politics running the ministry of finance who, moments earlier at the same conference in Copenhagen, had had the gall to suggest that Britain’s days as a global power had been and gone and that Brexit would be a “disaster for the UK”.

    “There are two kinds of European nations,” Jensen told the audience gathered for the Road to Brexit event in the Danish parliament. “There are small nations and there are countries that have not yet realised they are small nations.”

    He added: “It is a paradox that the country that once had an empire on which the sun never sets, that ruled the waves, that in its heart is truly global, is now drawing back from the world’s most successful free trade area. It is a paradox that I cannot get…

    “I had the privilege of meeting Boris Johnson shortly after he took office. Bojo said to me: ‘Come on Kristian, don’t be so sad, there must be something good about Brexit’. I just shook my head and said: ‘No. There is nothing.’”

    Edukator
    Member

    Representatives of the German chancellor, Angela Merkel, and the French president, Emmanuel Macron, led a group of member states stridently opposed to showing such flexibility.

    One Danish finance minister isn’t going to change the course of Brexit. Especially he hasn’t made clear the compromises he thinks the EU should make on NI, EU nationals in the UK etc.

    Incidently when you quote me as calling for “economic vandalism”, I did not. I envouraged people to “sabotage Brexit”, “boycott Brexit supporting businesses such as Dyson” and “save for the hard times which will reduce GDP and make it clear Brexit is a bad idea”. That is not economic vandalism, it is using yur economic power to bring about the change you wish for.

    Please don’t misquote me THM, you are in the habit of lying about what I have said.

    thecaptain
    Member

    Seems to me that guardian headline seriously misreads his intentions. Yes it’s a “game”, one where we are seriously disadvantaged. Calling it a game does not mean it is not serious and that we are not going to take a beating, as any fan of <insert random team of random sport> well knows.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Well… that was very depressing Kilo, but no one should be surprised.
    Before the vote, people (outside NI) accepted the “it’ll be fine, don’t worry about it” empty responses as regards the border.
    Before A50 was triggered, politicans didn’t insist on a plan for the border being formed first (leaving NI high and dry).
    And, even now… months on… position papers might as well say “the magic computer fairies will solve it”.
    Ask anyone who still thinks that the border won’t be problem, and they start talking about a lawless regime where smuggling is the solution, where the authorities will, hopefully, turn a blind eye to most goods crossing the border.

    Premier Icon teamhurtmore
    Subscriber

    Edukator – don’t embarrass yourself. Your comments were clear and went beyond boycotting specific brexit related companies to call for reduced overall consumption in order to trigger an economic downturn. That fits into economic vandalism and is frankly rather silly as an idea. You seem to be in the habit of lying about what you said. Don’t look at others

    Kelvin – in your quote another sensible comment re the paradox of what we are doing. Quite correct.

    Re the direction. Ok once we are over the shock of Brexshit itself, I am happy that we are seeking a bespoke deal as the existing options are weak substitutes for where we are. I hope we wan achieve it but the obstacles are equally obvious not least the folly of ending FOM

    Premier Icon slowoldman
    Subscriber

    Could it be the NI situation is the government’s get out clause? “Sorry we would love to deliver brexit but it simply isn’t possible”.

    Edukator
    Member

    Your comments were clear and went beyond boycotting specific brexit related companies to call for reduced overall consumption in order to trigger an economic downturn.

    So you can paraphrase my points correctly, thank you. That’s not “economic vandalism”.

    Vandalism is gratuitous destruction for the sake of it, that’s not what I’m calling for. Sabotage has an objective – stop something happening.

    spekkie
    Member

    kelvin – Member

    Ask anyone who still thinks that the border won’t be problem, and they start talking about a lawless regime where smuggling is the solution, where the authorities will, hopefully, turn a blind eye to most goods crossing the border.

    I read somewhere last summer that the existing customs at places like Calais and Folkstone already acknowledge that they can’t possibly check every vehicle that comes through and that therefore they know tons of stuff/people are being smuggled past them every week. . . .

    Junkyard
    Member

    Edukator – don’t embarrass yourself.

    He is not he is trying to get you to comprehend his point.

    You seem to be in the habit of lying about what you said. Don’t look at others

    He fully understands what he said what he needs is for you to fully understand it

    Whilst I think its a bit of a minor point either way as to whther its sabotage or vandalism he insist he meant one thing so probably best to just accept this rather than inist he meant something else especially when he is denying it

    At best you are mistaken.

    Edukator
    Member

    we are seeking a bespoke deal

    When people choose their language they really ought to think about how it’s going to read when their foreign negociating adversaries (becuase the whole process was set out as adversarial by the Brits from the outset) translate it.

    Macron speaks pretty good English and in his head it will read “sur mesure”/”sur commande”. Which conjours up the idea of ordering an expensive suit from the tailors. “My tailor is rich” is a stock phrase peole quote when they joke about speaking English. The image is of some snooty country gent rolling in cash ordering his tailor around when ordering a tailor-made suit. You really don’t demande a “bespoke deal” unless you’re signaling you’re going to be a difficult client but rich enough to be ripped off for the privilege of being difficult.

    Junkyard
    Member

    I would imagine very few native english speakers know what it means in france as an idiom. I would assume no one would use it in that way here, as the meaning would not e understood, and that is not what is meant when it is said here by anyone , whatever their politics.

    Premier Icon igm
    Subscriber

    I’m just an odd shape, so while I have held off bespoke suits so far (with the exception on my Charlie – lovely jacket) I probably will at some point.

    For now lots of alterations have had to suffice.

    Edukator
    Member

    If anyone has a French(wo)man to hand, just say “my tailor is rich” in an “allo allo” voice and see how they react.

    Premier Icon teamhurtmore
    Subscriber

    The language is clear from Ed, from May and from the EU

    Dealing with the serious ones alone – May had been clear: we want a positive relationship with Europe but we need a deal that reflects our unique position since the existing version are poor substitutes.

    The EU: we must ensure that Britain is worse off and we won’t negotiate until they commit to specific financial details and solve and unsolvable issue. Hmmm….

    Pretty clear from an objective perspective. Sadly for our EU friends they have the bigger issue of their bluff on the project is being called and there is a global trend – an unfortunate one at that – towards seeking solutions in narrow National/ regional terms rather than wider global ones. They have no answer other than the unpopular dream of greater political union that the majority do not want.

    cchris2lou
    Member

    I dont understand your pov THM .

    The EU want to get as much cash as possible , i think it is fair enough in a negociation . I am sure you do the same in your day to day job .

    On NI , Uk wants out of the EU , so there is a need for a border solution . and it is only fair that the uk sorts it out .

    The UK has created the whole Brexit situation , no one else .

    Premier Icon teamhurtmore
    Subscriber

    Of course – they have a lot to lose and they need to protect their interests – although there are questions about how that is best achieved. So fair does

    But we need to negotiate properly at some point. Their tactic is well known but simply makes a bad exit more likely and that is not in anyone’s interests

    My point is why do so many people here swallow their BS on negotiations instead of standing by what is in our interests – the answer lies in the denial on what’s happening and that is frankly silly and unproductive. And that before the “sabs” step in!!

    Fortunately the grown ups are getting on with things leaving the media to create the froth 😉

    Premier Icon slowoldman
    Subscriber

    becuase the whole process was set out as adversarial by the Brits from the outset

    That fits in with our parliamentary and legal systems.

    cchris2lou
    Member

    because some remainers can see through the lies and deception from the brexiters .

    Premier Icon teamhurtmore
    Subscriber

    The bitter UK language from Lancaster House

    I want us to be a truly Global Britain – the best friend and neighbour to our European partners,

    Apparently that is “adversarial”. You have to smile 😉

    And Florence

    There is a vibrant debate going on about the shape of the EU’s institutions and the direction of the Union in the years ahead. We don’t want to stand in the way of that.

    Indeed, we want to be your strongest friend and partner as the EU, and the UK thrive side by side.

    Aux armes!!! 😉

    Edukator
    Member

    I don’t even know what Lancaster house is or what it represents, I’ll ask the guys in the MTB club. However they’ve all heard of NO 10 downing street and most know who davies and May are:

    The latest Downing Street blunder involving a secret document being photographed outside Number 10 appears to reveal Tory tactics on Brexit.

    And, embarrassingly for Theresa May and Brexit minister David Davis, the handwritten notes on the document clearly say: “What’s the model? Have your cake and eat it.”

    The translation is “avoir le beurre et l’argent du beurre” = have your butter and the money from (selling) the butter)

    To which is added “et le sourire de la crémière” = and a smile from the dairy maid. Which gets corrupted to “et le cul de la crémière” which Dany Cohn-Bendit moderated to “les fesses de la crémière” speaking on Europe 1 the morning after.

    All these sound bites smack off extreme arrogance and even Mickey taking when translated.

    Adversarial, disrespectful, provocative, condescending… just like you on this forum, THM.

    mefty
    Member

    I was wondering where that pot had got to.

    Edukator
    Member

    Brids of a feather eh, Mefty.

    thecaptain
    Member

    Fortunately the grown ups are getting on with things

    It’s hard to imagine anyone who has followed the process over the past 18 months making such an absurd comment.

    Premier Icon igm
    Subscriber

    THM – I think it’s “fair dos” not “fair does”. You on the iPhone again?

    PS you accused me of normally being serious the other day. We’ll have no more of that thank you.

    Premier Icon teamhurtmore
    Subscriber

    Indeed 😉

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    Now the term bespoke deal is a funny one, it does mean literally anything (including a no deal as it would be bespoke to the situation) at no point does it guarantee anything useful.
    As far as dealing with the eu and choosing who to believe/support it is possible to look at it from an impartial standpoint. The simple one is the UK is under prepared for the key issues and unwilling to come up with solutions to them.
    The situation was created by the UK.
    A country with a weak hand is attempting to negotiate a better deal than others with very little to offer and the eu is standing firm. It’s what the massive player in any negotiation does, it’s not stalling its not blocking its simply working in their best interests.

    Premier Icon teamhurtmore
    Subscriber

    How about red, white and blue brexit instead 😉 ?

    zokes
    Member

    Fortunately the grown ups are getting on with things leaving the media to create the froth

    You are even more delusional than Jamby.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    Instead of the other meaningless drivel?
    Worst of the media froth is from the tabloids (the brexie/racist ones) leaping on every utterance by anyone as the EU are out to kill us/nuke them from Orbit or how May is smashing them and walking all over it all (this monday being a slight exception)
    I’m yet to see anything grown up from the UK team, Borris breifing the press on his vision is a prime example.

    and another example of “Remoaning”
    http://www.bbc.com/news/business-41545184

    Prices may rise and home deliveries could be slower unless the retail sector retains access to all EU workers after Brexit, a trade body has warned.
    EU citizens account for just 6% of the industry’s 170,000 workforce, the British Retail Consortium said.
    However, they are concentrated in warehouse and distribution jobs, its annual workforce survey showed.
    More than half of retailers said their EU employees were worried about their right to remain in the UK.
    Just over a fifth of retail firms had had some European staff leave the UK already, the BRC survey found.
    The trade body said ending of free movement for EU nationals could lead to higher costs for businesses and consumers, “from the service delivered in a store to next day delivery of an online order … to the prices of what you buy”.
    It argued that the retail sector should keep access to non-graduate European workers without the need for employer sponsorship after the UK leaves the EU.
    BRC chief executive Helen Dickinson said the Brexit decision had created uncertainty for both business and their EU workers.
    “It is not right that 16 months after the referendum these people still don’t have the security they need to continue their lives,” she said.

    Is any branch of government dealing with these concearns? Is anybody speaking to them?

    Premier Icon igm
    Subscriber

    teamhurtmore – Member
    How about red, white and blue brexit instead ?

    We did that – Clicky

    Premier Icon igm
    Subscriber

    I have an 18 journey today. Expect some poignant thoughts, facetious silliness and many spelling mistakes / autocorrects.

    Premier Icon teamhurtmore
    Subscriber

    I am sure it will be a step up from zokes! Enjoyed the clicky 😉

    Premier Icon igm
    Subscriber

    I think you enjoyed it last year too.

    Premier Icon kilo
    Subscriber

    spekkie – Member

    I read somewhere last summer that the existing customs at places like Calais and Folkstone already acknowledge that they can’t possibly check every vehicle that comes through and that therefore they know tons of stuff/people are being smuggled past them every week. . . .

    UK border controls were relaxed considerably in the nineties, for fiscal matters the method of control shifted towards using the importers systems and much less physical control, so as you say the border force can’t check everything although the use of newer technology helped in preventive rummage work. However the problem will be when there’s no single market and the nature of the perfectly legal commodities is of concern due to tariffs, rebates etc. Constant under investment means there won’t be the staff, facilities or technology to deal with this.
    The controls at the airports are already creaking at peak times remember maybots massive queues at the airports to process travellers from non Eu countries, well removing freedom of movement for eu nationals isn’t going to help that, queue loads of staff being removed from front line anti smuggling duties and the relaxation of checks to clear the log jams.

    NI border is going to be even more of a mess , back to the old days of cows being shifted across borders to screw subsidies. Who wants to be a border guard in the north? A new unarmed “legitimate target ” which will be easy picking for any dissidents?

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