EU Referendum – are you in or out?

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  • EU Referendum – are you in or out?
  • Premier Icon igm
    Subscriber

    On simple trade terms if we went to WTO rules they would be paying more in tariffs than we would as we import more.

    You don’t understand who pays the tariff TG.

    It’s like VAT. The buyer pays.

    Now they might reduce the price in order to sell to us, but if we’re importing anyway, why bother? Only worthwhile in areas where they have clear competition and their physical proximity and perceived value means in many cases they won’t have to.

    Premier Icon teamhurtmore
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    Why remainers should make any efforts to help with Brexit

    Enough said. At least this a step away from Ed’s economic vandalism

    [igm. You are correct I am not a Brexxy as you know 😉 )

    Premier Icon igm
    Subscriber

    several people were mentioning being able to make our own trade deals faster and also the removal of the effective bias against employing people from outside the EU.

    By sticking up scary posters of brown people?

    Ignoring the number of trade deals we would rip up before we start and the lack of people skilled in trade deal making?

    Pull the other one.

    yiman
    Member

    Like Trump and Corbyn, Brexit is something Sugar didn’t see coming. He had been critical of the EU and thought Cameron should have been a tougher negotiator, but he never thought we would vote to leave. “I think what happened was – no disrespect to middle England – they didn’t understand what they were voting for. But I tell you what, in five years’ time when it’s all sorted out they are not going to like themselves because it’s going to be an absolute nightmare.”

    Lord Sugar today….but what does he know…another “remoaning” “expert” we don’t want to listen to.

    Premier Icon igm
    Subscriber

    THM – I do. Agreed

    DrJ
    Member

    We now have a responsibility to limit the damage but are doing the opposite.

    By doing what, exactly? As far as I can see the only way that I as an individual could influence that process would be by voting Tory in the GE so as to give Maybot more authority to deal with her party and the EU. Is that what you’re actually suggesting?

    TurnerGuy
    Member

    You don’t understand who pays the tariff TG.

    wrong way round – we would still be making more from the tarrifs due to them selling more in this country – I’ve see figures like 15 and 8 billion, in our favour. Same principle applies.

    cchris2lou
    Member

    Faster trade deals ?

    the US has just shown the type of trade deal you can expect , with the Bombardier case .

    Junkyard
    Member

    On simple trade terms if we went to WTO rules they would be paying more in tariffs than we would as we import more.

    Well its 4% of their trade and 44% of ours so yes they would pay more [ assuming nothing happens to trade which is obviously false ] due to the deficit but that is either
    1) a deliberate attempt to misdirect
    2) borne of a lack of understanding of the issue

    This fact in no way gives us any leverage and we are still the ones who cannot afford to lose trade. they dont want to but they can afford it- in fact they could lose all UK trade and survive where as we would be deeply deeply in the shit if all EU trade stopped and making Greece looks like paradise
    Its not even a debatable point. The trade figures do not help us unless you cannot do maths

    Premier Icon majorspaniel
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    “Airbus need Rolls-Royce engines, not insignificant”
    Makes space for GE to expand into the gap, don’t forget the wing makers in Broughton and Filton, without access to the single market would Airbus pay to move its components from on factory to another? Very unlikely.

    Junkyard
    Member

    the issue is we can see areas where they need us but its still easier for them to diversify away from us than it is for us to move away from them.

    In general such scenarios like rolls are outliers rather than typical

    For example our entire car industry relies on imports from the EU theres doe snot rely on imports from us

    Premier Icon igm
    Subscriber

    TG – yes our government will make money from tariffs, but it’s our population who will pay it.

    Premier Icon teamhurtmore
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    What like taxes 😉 ?

    Premier Icon igm
    Subscriber

    Just like taxes. The tariffs are effectively a tax on the UK, like a slightly nastier version of VAT.

    Even Brexies aren’t suggesting that raising VAT is the answer to Brexit.

    Premier Icon kimbers
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    Considering Israel participates in Horizon 2020, there really is.

    Yep we can be associate members, means we loose influence, obviously,

    The government white paper said we’d still pay in for that kind of stuff, tho frustratingly no specifics, so what’s happened is that UK scientists feel they are being excluded from current bids as there is nothing definite yet.
    Meeting in work next week about this actually.

    As for playing hardball*, Tnumtwnt 😆 German CBI equivalent said that they’d be willing to lose trade to make sure we don’t get our cake & eat it, giving others incentive to leave, preserving the SM is a bigger priority than keeping us in it !
    Infact some European hauliers already looking elsewhere as many components, crops etc booked 18mths in advance and we might not even have a transition then.

    * The thought of May playing hardball is quite amusing, Barnier said he’d be watching the conference very closely, after last year’s £crashing jingoismfest, I’ll bet he’s still chuckling in to his wine over this year’s showing.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    The “media” clearly still aren’t doing a very good job of informing people what “WTO rules” really means, and what the work and negotiations to come, to arrive at new quotas and schedules, might entail. At some point a lot of people are going to get a wake up call on this.

    As for “faster trade deals” … it’s pie in the sky. Pick any two nonEU counties of significance, and look into the trade negotiations that went into (or is still going into) arriving at a trade deal of any importance between them. Now add in the time required simply to try and claw back our existing trade deals that we are about to lose. Nothing fast about any of what needs to happen.

    zokes
    Member

    The brexxies left this thread a long time ago for good reason.

    The fact their vacuous rhetoric was shown to be exactly what it is: jingoistic fantasy and nothing more?

    The whole idea of Brexit is bollocks. Anyone with half a brain can see that. It’s hardly surprising therefore that a) it’s not going particularly well, and b) it’s dragging down anyone who tries to manage it in the process.

    I’m not naïve enough to think that Labour, if in power, would handle it much better. But they’re not.

    It was brought on by the Tories. They can fix it. If they tear themselves apart in the process (as it appears they are), then so much the better from my perspective. Most things the Tories want to do don’t benefit the majority, Brexit is just the crowning glory of them.

    Premier Icon teamhurtmore
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    The fact their vacuous rhetoric was shown to be exactly what it is: jingoistic fantasy and nothing more?

    As opposed to negative scaremongering that proved equally vacuous – and led to the Brexshiteers winning. How embarrassing is that? Which is/was worse?

    The whole idea of Brexit is bollocks. Anyone with half a brain can see that.

    How? It hasn’t happened and we do not know the terms yet. But it does take a whole brain to see that I guess?

    It’s hardly surprising therefore that a) it’s not going particularly well

    True but there are two sides to a failed negotiation – one doesn’t want to negotiate at all

    and b) it’s dragging down anyone who tries to manage it in the process.

    On the contrary many are well prepared already and merely wanting to get on with it.

    I’m not naïve enough to think that Labour, if in power, would handle it much better. But they’re not.

    They may we’ll be very soon. Hence the eu already have back room discussions with Labour

    It was brought on by the Tories

    Alternatively by ththe majority of voters not all of whom were Tories

    They can fix it. If they tear themselves apart in the process (as it appears they are), then so much the better from my perspective.

    Looks like your wish would of be granted. Look on the bright side.

    Most things the Tories want to do don’t benefit the majority,

    What was the term? Vacuous rhetoric?

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    As opposed to negative scaremongering that proved equally vacuous – and led to the Brexshiteers winning. How embarrassing is that? Which is/was worse?

    The scale of the leave lies were staggering, each of them was proved false over time.

    How? It hasn’t happened and we do not know the terms yet. But it does take a whole brain to see that I guess?

    How indeed… perhaps we can just look at what is happening with the EU agencies leaving, the delayed investments and the problems to things like nurse recruitment.

    I know you want to own the shut up and stop complaining part but people are seeing the impacts and having to deal with it. Politically it’s not over so people have every right to get stuck in.

    Most things the Tories want to do don’t benefit the majority,

    What was the term? Vacuous rhetoric?[/quote]
    So you brought some examples of they loving, caring and sharing policies?

    Junkyard
    Member

    It hasn’t happened and we do not know the terms yet. But it does take a whole brain to see that I guess?

    Are predictions that have yet to come to pass – despite you making them for well over a decade and setting no date for the actual event – still ok?

    Just want to be sure its ok for you to say the Euro is doomed but not ok for us to say talks are not working and we wont get what we hoped for.
    I also look fwd to seeing one of your economic reports

    Dear Board

    The future is unpredictable, it has not happened yet, and it still ongoing. Therefore i have nothing to say and can make no predictions
    Love THM

    It is what you do isnt it?

    zokes
    Member

    negative scaremongering that proved equally vacuous

    Nope, it’s proved almost Nostradamusesque in its accuracy so far

    True but there are two sides to a failed negotiation – one doesn’t want to negotiate at all

    Doesn’t really matter whose “fault” it is. Fact remains it was very predictable, and has come to pass.

    On the contrary many are well prepared already and merely wanting to get on with it.

    Well, Barnier’s doing all right out of it, I suppose

    It was brought on by the Tories

    Alternatively by ththe majority of voters not all of whom were Tories[/quote]

    Last time I checked, it was Tory Prime Minister David Cameron who used his majority in the House of Commons to pass the legislation required to enable the referendum. The irony is of course that many leave voters just voted no to piss the tories off.

    Most things the Tories want to do don’t benefit the majority,

    What was the term? Vacuous rhetoric?[/quote]

    Nope, you want the antonym – grounded in significant fact

    Premier Icon teamhurtmore
    Subscriber

    Doesn’t really matter whose “fault” it is. Fact remains it was very predictable, and has come to pass.

    Yes the EU avoids negotiation- utterly predictable

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    So….. do we think that 300% is now the benchmark tariff set on post-brexit UK exports? Or will it go higher?

    zokes
    Member

    Yes the EU avoids negotiation- utterly predictable

    I’m sure the EU called a totally unnecessary election to waste three months of an already impossibly short negotiating time period also.

    You’re getting towards Jamby levels of one-eyedness here.

    Junkyard
    Member

    With all the emerging markets waiting to do trade with us I think that might be an underestimation STOP DOING BRITAIN DOWN REMOANER

    Premier Icon teamhurtmore
    Subscriber

    One eye on the core issue – we need to start proper negotiation

    The EU are past masters at this* and remoaners are falling for it hook, line and sinker.

    * avoiding and making the other party look to blame

    Premier Icon igm
    Subscriber

    THM – there are good reasons for them to negotiate in this way. Why wouldn’t they?

    Junkyard
    Member

    We are lucky that we have you here to explain it all to us.

    Anyway I think what we say here is

    It hasn’t happened and we do not know the terms yet. But it does take a whole brain to see that I guess?

    DO you agree with yourself or not ?

    Premier Icon teamhurtmore
    Subscriber

    Because at the end of the day WE ALL lose

    DrJ
    Member

    remoaners are falling for it hook, line and sinker.

    Think you’ll find that it’s the brexshitters who are negotiating (or not) with the EU. Predictable? Of course – which is why getting into this situation was so stupid.

    Junkyard
    Member

    Team Hurtmore wrote:

    Because at the end of the day WE ALL lose

    we all agree on this but as we did not vote for this why do you expect us to help us lose?

    They wanted this they can lose for us and take the blame for the inevitable

    Premier Icon igm
    Subscriber

    THM – agreed. But politically that isn’t entirely unacceptable to the EU and they are probably, just due to size, better able to absorb the loss than we are.

    Either way things are going to start getting more expensive round here soon – what is past is as they say merely prologue.

    Pigface
    Member

    Who is to blame? We started this pantomime 🙄

    zokes
    Member

    They wanted this they can lose for us and take the blame for the inevitable

    Exactly

    DrJ
    Member

    Of course the UK could play a blinder by guaranteeing EU nationals rights, coming up with a workable solution for NI, and proposing a reasonable divorce bill. Then it would be the EU who would be seen to be dragging their heels.

    And the Nasty party have never done that? Grow up.

    Premier Icon teamhurtmore
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    THM – agreed. But politically that isn’t entirely unacceptable to the EU

    Therin lies the conundrum

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    teamhurtmore » Because at the end of the day WE ALL lose

    [b]Stop moaning.[/b]
    Plan for the no deal exit.
    Call for a democratic means to stop a no deal exit.
    Get all your coping measures in place for this lose lose calamity.
    Call for an end to this headlong fall into this lose lose pit.

    Premier Icon teamhurtmore
    Subscriber

    I’m not. I see this so am getting in with making the best of what is in front of us. No point remaining in denial for ever

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Calling for a change of direction is not the same as being in denial about the direction we are on.

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