Well the petty, small-minded little Englanders have got their dream…..

less dirty foreigners

Hurray! We’ll be back to using imperial measures and paying for it in pounds, shillings and pence in no time. Maybe we can get rid of all the darkies too

For the hard of thinking, nationalism is a comfortable, defensible and comprehensible, position. It’s basically saying “none of that please, I’ll stay with what I know”.

And I think one thing that happened is a lot of those people, who maybe don’t usually vote, did so this time. For once in their lifetimes they’ve come out on the winning side, they’re not going to let it go regardless of consequence. And they’ll probably keep going.

Given how close the result was, each of these little aggrieved cohorts was enough to swing the result.

A close family member called me on the 24th June last year to triumphantly tell me that “there will be no more bloody commissioners from bloody Bombay telling us what to do”. He believed (and still does) that his mobility benefit ended when he was 65 because of an EU directive.

He also explained to me that I wouldn’t ever need to pay VAT on anything anymore. He’s adamant that as soon as we’re out of the EU there will be no more VAT and no more immigration from India.

It’s very hard to debate with that level of stupidity, but he’s also been fed lies from his local MP (a Tory Brexiteer) who has blamed everything from the cost of rail tickets to the lack of affordable housing on the EU.

Sooner or later, they’ll run out of scapegoats.

It’s very hard to debate with that level of stupidity

You can’t. Spend your time on the middle ground, the regretters and the abstainers.

It’s unpleasant to watch the Bexiteers convincing poorly educated people to cut their own throats. However as someone older and wiser said each generation of poor have some form of burden to bear on behalf of the privileged- world wars and all that- maybe this generations burden is Brexit.

Net immigration (from the EU and non-EU) might be the lowest it has been in over three years, but it’s still ~240,000 more people in the UK, with nothing like enough net increase in new homes to accommodate them…

So house prices keep going up.

As does rent prices, leaving renters less money to put aside for a deposit to get on the housing ladder.

It’s not only immigration that puts pressure on housing availability.

I suspect economic damage will more than offset any fall in housing costs due to demand reduction – ie costs may decrease but so will affordability. What you’ll then get is more inequality as the affluent snap up the reduced priced property.

I agree there’s a problem with population pressure, nobody, but I don’t think EU membership is more than one contributing factor (bear in mind also the ageing population, very significant non-EU immigration, and the offset of emigration on which the door is closing) and leaving isn’t going to fix it.

This simplistic linking of problem-cause-fix is another of the problems behind the vote to my eyes.

An economist has just been on the radio to stress another uncomfortable fact, as opposed to the lies peddled by the brexshitters.

Brexiteer BS: migrants come here and claim benefits
Reality: they come here, work and pay tax

So the tax take will now go down significantly. And lets not mention the concerns of for instance the fruit growers who are now going to struggle to recruit anyone to actually pick their fruit. Or the care workers needed to wipe the arses of the senile old giffers who voted to send them back. etc etc…..

But never mind all that, eh? Lets wave our little flags instead

Hurray for ‘Taking Back Control’ 😕

needed to wipe the arses of the senile old giffers

An elderly leave voting relative very sick in hospital recently, being very well attended to: “I didn’t mean them”.

Actually, you did.

Lets look at the UK for a moment, we have a housing shortage, yet how long does it take to build a house and look at the shortage of labour, Look at the NHS you see a shortage of Nurses and Doctors, yet we are cutting training and the numbers going in are falling, average age is getting much older etc.

Look at infrastructure, rail, road, etc all in desparate need of work.

So which of those are the fault of the EU and which are actually the fault of WM. A WM that is now so obsessed that it hasn’t a hope of fixing those things it actually had control of.

Looks good i think most would agree.

good chart – shows that impact of Brexshit has been limited so far.

Binners relax, we will still be having plenty of inward migration into the UK.

But amusing in the context of the niw constant remoaning barrage that Macron – a staunch Europhile with ideas of reform is seeing a collapse in opinion polls/rating – less than Hollande even (iirc) and now advocating more protectionism. It’s not only the Uk that is in a mess with Europe!!

Sooner or later, they’ll run out of scapegoats.

No, they won’t… “if you tolerate this, then your children will be next”.

constant remoaning barrage

Soon to drowned out by the moaning of those who voted Leave, “but not this sort of Leave”, as a real position has to be laid in plain English and negotiated for with our international partners.

Also turns out that Maybot’s shambolic tenure as home sec saw a huge overestimate in the number of students staying here.

Let’s hope so kelvin, we do need another record. First it was the Brexshiteers blaming everything on the EU, now remoaners blaming everything on Brexit. Neither stand up to much scrutiny.

Appears the all those students that stay on after their studies have finished is a myth.

I agree THM that some arguments don’t bear much scrutiny However for an economy to take advantage of a low currency rate and export more “stuff” and preferably large expensive stuff based on using internal raw material (exporting knowledge is always limited) requires raw materials and production capacity of which we have little.

A significant part of our workforce is simply not well enough educated or motivated to respond to post brexit requirements and what is missed by many people is that these semi skilled (at best) Brexit voters simply want £36k rather than £18k for driving a forklift (a job which will be automated within 5 years)

It’s not the high level global opportunity v existing markets in Europe argument that is at the core of this it’s poor people being used as a tool to benefit a group of people who “think” they can make a shed load of cash out of this and if it fails they will suffer very little. This thing is supported by political dogma not caused by it.

The above is not remoaning, it’s just the way it is.

good chart – shows that impact of Brexshit has been limited so far

No it doesn’t. It shows that at some point in 2016 the pound was at a 168 year low using the ‘effective exchange rate’ metric.

Making things up to suit your agenda – sign of a valid well-thought out position right?

Just to add that I don’t doubt that people’s wages are likley to rise post Brexit it’s simply supply and demand but the biggest beneficiaries will be the well educated and highly skilled, the poorly educated and low skilled may see some modest short term increase but this will be wiped out by automation. It not just the obvious stuff taxis, vans trucks, warehouses – as I have said before we have Hospitality clients who are now heavily investing in Automation rather than try and recruit locals to replace the existing EU staff.

now remoaners blaming everything on Brexit.

Nah id say Tory incompetence is responsible for most of the bad stuff

IMO the chart shows how far the UK has fallen, and that the Brexiteers fail to realise just how insignificant the UK now is. This is not a recent issue but a long term trend. Yes, maybe it is possible to turn around however looking at the current evidence, education, government, investment etc. It really doesn’t look hopeful. The conditions that gave the UK power, Empire, no longer exist and can’t be simply replicated.

It’s the whole reality/fantasy thing with the brexiteers. The debate on five live yesterday perfectly illustrated this yawning chasm.

Some pompous, double-barrelled Tory arse was saying that the indigenous unemployed (who according to his boss are fewer in number than ever before) will now fill the fruit-picking jobs vacated by the now absent EU workers

The other guy ran a recruitment company now struggling to fill these roles, so was probably a bit more clued up on the realities, rather than empty tub-thumping rhetoric.

He pointed out the inconvenient fact that the jobs were in Somerset and East Anglia but the unemployment black spots were in Hull, so there may be an issue with logistics

He pointed out the inconvenient fact that the jobs were in Somerset and East Anglia but the unemployment black spots were in Hull, so there may be an issue with logistics

Easily solved, they can relocate and live in caravans on site. If it is good enough for the Immigrants why not for the unemployed? Bring back indentured servitude for the many not the few.

I’m waiting for Iain Duncan Smith to propose a ‘work experience’ program where they sleep underneath tarpaulins in a ditch for a daily gruel ration

Pigface – Member

Appears the all those students that stay on after their studies have finished is a myth.

A lie? From the Leave campaign? Surely not? Who’d have thunk it?

[/quote]Nah id say Tory incompetence is responsible for most of the bad stuff[/quote]

Odd viewpoint when both our major parties are essentially in the same place on Brexshit with the only difference being that one is having to exercise the result of the vote and the other is relived from that onerous duty.

If automation is going to decimate the lives of the low skilled and low paid, what has that got to do with our membership of the EU?

If automation is going to decimate the lives of the low skilled and low paid, what has that got to do with our membership of the EU?

Indeed. But equally will leaving the EU help? Probably not if you need a decent economy to provide for those less fortunate.

Which of course we do not 😯

Leaving or staying in the EU will make little if any difference to the advance of automation. The unskilled face a grim future either way.

one is having to exercise the result of the vote and the other is relived from that onerous duty.

You mean “one has decided to exercise the result of the vote”

Well they could have ignored it I guess despite making the firm commitment otherwise – democracy is so bloody inconvenient when people don’t do what they are told isn’t it?

The unskilled face a grim future either way.

Yep. But one side promised them milk and honey

He pointed out the inconvenient fact that the jobs were in Somerset and East Anglia but the unemployment black spots were in Hull, so there may be an issue with logistics

They’re poor people, they can live in mold ridden caravans and pay for the privelage!

No they didn’t – but one of the reasons why we lost was the fact that we patronised them by saying things like that – oh, and failing to present a clear and positive argument for why the deal Dave struck was a good as it gets*. We are as much to blame, if not more. We missed an open goal and now try to blame the opposition – bizarre.

* but he was a toff, OD and a Tory so obviously was out to stuff the poor and unskilled to protect his mates obviously 😯

All the unskilled immigrants that were nicking their jobs / undercutting their wages would be sent home and the indigenous unskilled would have more jobs and a better quality of life? Don’t remember that THM?

Fundamentally though I agree with you on this one – they’re stuffed.

We are as much to blame, if not more. We missed an open goal and now try to blame the opposition

Spent quite a while trying to convince friends and family that the EU wasnt the cause of all society’s ills, they just regurgitated thee same mostly anti-immigrant/ bendy banana nonsense they read in the papers, my mum (maternity nurse for 30 years) is still certain the NHS will be getting its 350m pw….

After a while you just have to accept that a lot of people are just thick as ****

I have moved from denial of these people to acceptance….

We are as much to blame, if not more. We missed an open goal and now try to blame the opposition – bizarre.

It wasn’t an open goal, 40 years of anti EU articles, certain sections of society that are racist, and the promise of £350M. Add to this the stupidity of certain politicians and here we are. Then the minor issue of how the electorate was decided, disenfranchising a large number of those who will be affected.

After a while you just have to accept that a lot of people are just thick as ****

And unfortunately several of them are in government.