EU Referendum – are you in or out?

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  • EU Referendum – are you in or out?
  • Premier Icon kimbers
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    a sensible application of technology which could have wider benefits – hey, a win, win? More potentially sensible stuff. It’s good this isn’t it?

    Any ideas what this might entail ?

    Just saying technology doesn’t count as a response !

    Premier Icon binners
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    The technology to have this kind of border control, on this scale doesn’t actually exist yet, but given the government’s previously superb record on delivering groundbreaking, innovative large-scale IT schemes, on time and on budget, I can’t see why this all won’t be in place in a year or so

    Premier Icon dissonance
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    Just saying technology doesn’t count as a response !

    Big data machine learning.
    I am sure crapita will knock out a proof of concept in a couple of weeks. Or possibly we could get BAe in.

    Premier Icon teamhurtmore
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    There was an interesting piece on Newsnight several months ago – I thought at the time, wow that’s smart and could have much wider use. And much, much better than sitting around moaning too – a practical solution to what appears to be an intractable problem. Progress in the wider sense of the word.

    It’s good this – we get to see smart people moving forward, bring solutions rather than those who dig their heels in and merely point out problems. Just the kind of people I like to employ (the former tbc!)

    Premier Icon molgrips
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    You can’t really criticise Binners for not jumping in and designing a massive IT system, can you? Not really fair.

    Premier Icon binners
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    Or pointing out the fantastic track record of government IT schemes

    Hows the Universal Credit IT System looking at the moment?

    Still… I’m sure this one will be completely different Hurty

    wilburt
    Member

    THM what youre say is what the politicians are saying. Its just words nothing specific. The general proposal as good as I can see is to allow small local traders free access and large traders to pre book items online.

    That clearly wont work because a) you’ll still need to check stuff occasionally. b) other non EU countries would want the same freedoms. c) its wide open to abuse.

    Dont forget this is an EU border so has to satisfy EU standards. We cant say what it does and doesnt check.

    At the moment Davis reminds me of a few chancer managers I’ve worked with over the years. Their general approach is to keep saying positive stuff and hope for the best. Thats ok when the stakes are limited but not in these circumstances.

    The EU wants this border and citizens rights considered first because its putting people first whilst the UK is focusing almost entirely(without much success) on the interests of corporations.

    Premier Icon kimbers
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    Technology means technology
    red, white & blue technology
    strong & stable technology

    maybe it means robots

    we could have a robo-border!

    youd have to also track everything that comes in eire, which is going to place a big burden on Ireland, who wont be happy

    maybe the plan is to stretch the transition out for 10 years or so until the demographics have shifted enough that eire can be united and the UK can ditch the NI problem entirely!

    Premier Icon dissonance
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    There was an interesting piece on Newsnight several months ago

    You got any further information. Preferably from the technical press as opposed to Newsnight.

    mattyfez
    Member

    I’m confident our leaders can deliver… The governments official head of compooters and internets had this to say:

    Premier Icon aracer
    Subscriber

    Team Hurtmore wrote:

    The Irish border is interesting given that it is a problem without an obvious solution*, other than a sensible application of technology fairies which could have wider benefits

    You might as well write that until you can provide us with more details – it’s about that level in your head I presume (hint: some of us here work in technology/IT, and we’re probably the most sceptical)

    * why do we think the EU are insisting on placing this ahead of other issues in the scheduling

    Because it’s the most difficult and most important problem.

    Premier Icon slowoldman
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    I can see two very simple solutions:
    1. We don’t leave the EU – so no border needed.
    or
    2. We pull out of NI – so no border needed.

    Premier Icon zippykona
    Subscriber

    Or we have an honesty box on the border.

    Junkyard
    Member

    we get to see smart people moving forward, bring solutions

    this is exactly what we all think when we look at our Brexit team and we analyse their successes to date on a variety of complicated issues.

    mattyfez
    Member

    I am sure crapita will knock out a proof of concept in a couple of weeks.

    The only things capita are capable of knocking out in that time scale are large invoices. 😆

    Premier Icon zippykona
    Subscriber

    But what about the 70 million turks camped on the border waiting to rush across to claim their free houses?
    Of course the EU might build a big **** off wall to keep us out.
    It’s all very well The Zombie Maygot saying what she wants but ultimately it’s up to the Mainlanders what they want to give us.
    Personally I think the EU army should invade to save us EU citizens in peril.

    Premier Icon dissonance
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    The only things capita are capable of knocking out in that time scale are large invoices.

    Thats unfair.
    They will also be able to knock out a contract ensuring they keep the cash when it doesnt quite go to plan.

    Premier Icon binners
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    You can just imagine the conversations that have gone on between David Davis, Liam Fox and the Snake Oil Salesmen IT consultants about their magic beans Border Enforcement 9000 Megabot

    Premier Icon aracer
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    [video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vywf48Dhyns[/video]

    Premier Icon binners
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    A more cross party approach could have all this cleared up in no time….

    Premier Icon molgrips
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    In fairness, that was a generalised comment, not a proposed solution to a tricky problem.

    Premier Icon igm
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    Do you think he realises that smart factories mean fewer workers?

    Per factory that is.

    Not saying that’s right or wrong of course.

    Premier Icon molgrips
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    Generally, using fewer workers per factory means more factories are possible, making more stuff, and growing the economy.

    Premier Icon binners
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    We definitely need more stuff. If we have more stuff, and magic borders, I’m voting for that

    Premier Icon igm
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    More seriously, on your comment THM on why start with the Irish border – I’d assume one would struggle to have sensible trade talks without defining first where you are trading from and to, and defining how open that border is is part of that surely.
    How do you do talks about UK-EU trade when everyone is wondering what happens if you can just bypass customs by shipping via Ireland?

    Premier Icon igm
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    Moly – that is true to a fair degree (I think generally true is about right), but is a little to the right of Corbyn’s normal position.

    Premier Icon jambalaya
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    http://news.sky.com/story/next-phase-of-brexit-talks-likely-delayed-to-december-sky-sources-10991514

    Looks very much like the Germans are pushing for a delay in Brexit talks and predictably (for me) a much bigger direct role. With their elections in September they will not form a Government till a month later – so nothing much of substance can be agreed. Headline quotes from politicians there about needing to avoid WTO – trust in the Commission to deliver is fading. Schwable’s ultra pro EU stance and campaign has faded from being tied with Merkel to now dropping back substantially as she reinforces a move “rightwards”

    The EU Commission is about self preservation. The Germans are much more pragmatic. WTO on cars could see a 24% swing in pricing German vs Japanese cars if (when) we agree tariff free deal with Japan focusing on Hybrids ? Germany is looking to bypass EU stubborness IMO

    Another great example of ridiculous tariffs emerged as imports to the EU of tinned peaches are taxed at 75% to protect Italian growers. We don’t care as we don’t grow them, we can agree much lower tariffs outside the EU, support developing nations for example.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    We definitely need more stuff.

    We do, because our economic and political model depends on it.

    But we don’t, because it’s **** the world.

    Sorting that dilemma out will be far more difficult than Brexit.

    wilburt
    Member

    So we are going to undermine the 94bn UK car production industry with tariff free imports from Japan?

    dougiedogg
    Member

    I find it funny that the disaster of partition has caused such a problem nearly 100 years on

    Premier Icon slowoldman
    Subscriber

    Generally, using fewer workers per factory means more factories are possible, making more stuff, and growing the economy.

    Which of course requires enough employed people with adequate supplies of disposal cash to buy said stuff.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Never mind that! Whats the Irish Sea going to look like once it becomes the main route for smuggling swag and booty over the border into the EU?

    AAAAARRRRRRRR

    dovebiker
    Member

    On the ‘technology’ angle, my mate’s wife is director of an IT company that does a lot of this type of government work – if there even was the remotest chance of a clearly-defined requirement, manageable technological risk, a reasonable budget, a workable contract and sufficiently skilled workforce to deliver this, it’s still a massive ask to have this by 2020. Some IT companies are downsizing their UK operations in the face of dwindling work.

    codybrennan
    Member

    dovebiker – Member
    On the ‘technology’ angle, my mate’s wife is director of an IT company that does a lot of this type of government work – if there even was the remotest chance of a clearly-defined requirement, manageable technological risk, a reasonable budget, a workable contract and sufficiently skilled workforce to deliver this, it’s still a massive ask to have this by 2020. Some IT companies are downsizing their UK operations in the face of dwindling work.

    Indeed.

    I’ll take it further- I design these services for customers where digital manifests are presented from moving objects (vehicles) as they cross boundaries, and the lead time for even smaller-scale deployments is considerable.

    We build in, with the customers understanding, long lead times for testing. Radio is just like that. Think of the telepeage systems in France- the vehicles have to be almost stationary and very close to sensors for the system to work, unless ANPR is used, and there’s no cross-Europe system for that.

    2020 would be well beyond ambitious. And then there’s the question of: who pays? In the absence of Europe-wide ANPR, every vehicle crossing in and out would need a declaration device where the manifest is transferred over radio to a receiver. One of these in every vehicle? Costly.

    And then there’s the logistics of the backhaul network deployment. Coincidentally, I’ve been deploying a network recently that straddles NI and Eire, and the border area alone is very hard to cover.

    Premier Icon matt_outandabout
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    Irish border will look like this:

    Premier Icon igm
    Subscriber

    Most sensible so far

    Premier Icon teamhurtmore
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    f border control, on this scale doesn’t actually exist yet, but given the government’s previously superb record on delivering groundbreaking, innovative large-scale IT schemes, on time and on budget, I can’t see why this all won’t be in place in a year or s

    Indeed it is a major problem and to repeat no surprise that EU use it as a delaying tactic.

    Public sector delivery on iT – poor agreed
    Does Davis known the answer – v much doubt it
    DO I – certainly not

    The known, knowns ^

    Do we need a soft option – of course
    WIll it involve a tech solution as trailed in Europe – most probably
    ETA for delivery – who knows p, but not 2019

    The known unknowns

    Niw, let’s find a solution because the issue isn’t going away.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    let’s find a solution because the issue isn’t going away.

    There’s a very, very, very easy solution.

    Go on…. have a guess?

    Clue: At present, the solution isn’t required because ‘the problem’ doesn’t exist! 😉

    Premier Icon teamhurtmore
    Subscriber

    I am guessing it’s involves heads and sands – correct ?

    Or the constructive Varadkar initiative?

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