EU Referendum – are you in or out?

Not long
Well about a year I reckon b4 Johnson admits it

We either go grovelling to trump

Or we fold to the EU

NEW: EU preparing to give UK worse trade deal terms than Canada or Japan #brexit https://t.co/oI5fwxrRZp

— Peter Foster (@pmdfoster) January 21, 2020

A handy little catch up for those wondering how “done” Brexit will be at the end of the month, as regards trade:

Brexit 2020: Absolutely everything you need to know about the nightmare ahead in one handy article https://t.co/Y7f40g4KYu

— Ian Dunt (@IanDunt) January 23, 2020

Have a little smile…

I'm old enough to remove the old blue passports but I'd forgotten it said "Your mother is a hamster" on them. pic.twitter.com/2yEpTQl4M7

— Otto English (@Otto_English) January 23, 2020

🤡

Draft design for the new UK passport post-Brexit. Made in France. #montypython #brexit #aprilfools pic.twitter.com/MJ3kcX7efl

— Monty Python (@montypython) April 1, 2018

My wife just got here new passport today, still the old red one.

As a slight aside,( and a truly first world problem) we are going skiing at half term, and driving down. What the hell is Dover going to be like on the 14th Feb? I’m not looking forward to this trip.

How long before Javid caves in?

Less than a day.

What the hell is Dover going to be like on the 14th Feb?

It’ll be fine. Unless you mean Feb 2021.

Less than a day.

Not exactly. It’s arguably the worst of all worlds… refusing to sign up to regulatory alignment, which limits the scope of any agreement with the EU, all so that we can have the “potential” to diverge, without really having any good reason to do actually diverge. Companies stick to EU regs, but don’t get any of the advantages gained by the UK officially staying aligned.

What a good job that Harry and Meghan are occupying all the papers at the moment so that no-one has to read or understand the shit that’s about to hit the fan here.

What a good job that Harry and Meghan are occupying all the papers at the moment so that no-one has to read or understand the shit that’s about to hit the fan here.

Yeah, funny that.

I’d also like to hear a lot more about when we can expect the publication of the findings of the investigation into foreign interference in the referendum and other public votes since.

No mention in the Tory press, wonder why that could be?

I’d also like to hear a lot more about when we can expect the publication of the findings of the investigation into foreign interference in the referendum and other public votes since.

If you’ve got nothing to hide you’ve got nothing to fear 🙂

IMHO The act of trying to bury it could well turn out worse than the contents, but currently we seem to have a lot of people willing to look the other way as long as they get their way regardless of morality.

The delay in setting up the select committees that both Boris and Dom have displayed contempt to is worth watching, is there a valid delay or are they deliberately doing this.

Classic Blue passports and Big Ben bongs what a f’ing farce at least future school kids reading U.K. history will have something to laugh at assuming His Britannic Emperor Boris jnr hasn’t decided that the false news be smitten from all historic recordings.

I still remember my family passport of the 70’s being very much darker than that blue and way more blackish 🙂 but the mother was a hamster was pure class 🙂

How long before Javid caves in?

Less than a day.

Not long

Javed is a pillock, but he is surrounded by pillocks, so it is less obvious.

I’ve got my #rejoin message on Facebook locked and loaded for 23:01 next Friday night.

Face it, Brexiteers, this is gonna be an even bigger shitshow than before and the likes of me will be here, pointing out every fail, every broken promise and every unintended consequence.

This is never going to go away.

Ditto

Never had a tattoo.

I’m seriously considering having something with the Rejoin message and perhaps the EU flag on the top of my arm… So I can look back and say to my lad and his soon to be born son that I was never part of this s*** show, farce.

Oh, old guy in queue at Asda today to get lottery ticket… He won’t do the Euro Millions anymore “as we are leaving and why would I want my money going over there?”

That the actual f***?!

Oh, old guy in queue at Asda today to get lottery ticket… He won’t do the Euro Millions anymore “as we are leaving and why would I want my money going over there?”

That the actual f***?!

Par for the course. Never, ever underestimate the stupidity out there.

^ Yeah unfortunately.

Never knew this country had such a dark undercurrent.

Brexit was a real Pandora’s Box…

currently we seem to have a lot of people willing to look the other way as long as they get their way regardless of morality

Never knew this country had such a dark undercurrent

Puts me in mind of early 1930s Germany in some ways.

I wouldn’t mind betting these same points were made back then too.

We’ve got to stop calling people stupid because they don’t agree with us. I’m hearing this constantly in my social circles, the other day a friend was telling me how someone he knows couldn’t vote for Corbyn because he didn’t like his beard. He was incredulous / incandescent about this. I explained to him that this is how democracy works, you don’t have to read and digest every manifesto before you’re allowed to vote, you can vote on any premise that you choose, facial hair included.

It then occurred to me that a week earlier I had been at a trendy Manchester northern quarter event where 95 percent of the males (average age, early 40’s) were sporting beards and I wondered how many of them were Labour party members who had voted for Corbyn over the other candidates precisely, or unconsciously because they liked his beard.

AS much as we are sentient, thoughtful human beings, we also act on gut instinct. Instinct plays as much a part in our actions as intellect. Labour needs to recognise this and realise that seduction is just as important as instruction, maybe even more so.

We’ve got to stop calling people stupid because they don’t agree with us. I’m hearing this constantly in my social circles, the other day a friend was telling me how someone he knows couldn’t vote for Corbyn because he didn’t like his beard.

Sorry if you base your vote, which has a possible bearing on your life, your families future and the running of the country on facial hair you pretty much are stupid.

Sorry Kilo, I think you are the stupid one here, you didn’t understand a word I said. I was implying that there’s stupidity on both sides. Personally, I wouldn’t vote for someone with a toothbrush moustache for example.

Aesthetics are as or more important than policy positions, most people don’t read manifestos, they make judgements based on heuristics and appearances. Policy positions are irrelevant if you stand no chance of getting into office and implementing them.

Maybe you think that some people don’t deserve the vote because they aren’t as intelligent as you? As I said, I think your being naive and stupid but I wouldn’t use that fact to deny you the vote, you can vote based on whatever prejudices you have,

Some might see Corbyns beard as a homage to Lenin or Trotsky, like the
hat he used to wear and you know what, they’d be right. They might be completely ignorant, knowing nothing of policy etc. but their summising that if it looks like a Trot, it probably is a Trot would be completely correct. Same goes for Reese Mogg, he goes to Goebells tailor and Hitler’s hairdresser, that would be enough for me to never vote for him even if Id never heard a word he’s said.

You’re calling people stupid whilst looking in a mirror.

you can vote based on whatever prejudices you have,

yep, never said you couldn’t doesn’t mean they’re not being stupid though.

Maybe you think that some people don’t deserve the vote because they aren’t as intelligent as you

Yep keep making stuff I’ve never said or intimated up

Listen to Uncle Junior.

‘He couldn’t sell it.’ [Jezza that is].

We’ve got to stop calling people stupid because they don’t agree with us.

I really don’t think that’s the reason anyone is doing that.

The problem with calling stupid people stupid is that they’re too stupid to understand that they’re stupid, Dunning-Kruger and all that, so there’s absolutely no point in doing so as it just alienates them further. In response to being called an idiot, “gosh, sorry, I had no idea, thanks for letting me know” said no-one ever.

Anyroad. I think a bigger issue with this whole omnishambles isn’t stupidity, it’s ignorance. Granted when it’s wilful ignorance then they’re two cheeks of the same arse but a lot of people – the normal, everyday people rather than the reomaners and gammons shouting at each other on the Internet – simply aren’t engaged and have no real idea what’s going on.

Face it, Brexiteers, this is gonna be an even bigger shitshow than before and the likes of me will be here, pointing out every fail, every broken promise and every unintended consequence.

Won’t matter if Boris’s propaganda machines better than yours and I have a feeling his is ATM.

It’s already been demonstrated they can rewrite history so far, ‘hard Brexit’was a term that didn’t exist in the referendum but years later it was what apparently people knew they were voting for and was the only true Brexit.

“We need a bigger boat !”, well we need to figure out a smarter game I’m afraid.

Puts me in mind of early 1930s Germany in some ways.

Before you know it we’ll all be wearing more Hugo Boss 🙂

Well say what you will about Hugo Boss and the Nazis but those uniforms were classy.

Sorry Kilo, I think you are the stupid one here, you didn’t understand a word I said. I was implying that there’s stupidity on both sides. Personally, I wouldn’t vote for someone with a toothbrush moustache for example.

Aesthetics are as or more important than policy positions, most people don’t read manifestos, they make judgements based on heuristics and appearances. Policy positions are irrelevant if you stand no chance of getting into office and implementing them.

Maybe you think that some people don’t deserve the vote because they aren’t as intelligent as you? As I said, I think your being naive and stupid but I wouldn’t use that fact to deny you the vote, you can vote based on whatever prejudices you have,

Some might see Corbyns beard as a homage to Lenin or Trotsky, like the
hat he used to wear and you know what, they’d be right. They might be completely ignorant, knowing nothing of policy etc. but their summising that if it looks like a Trot, it probably is a Trot would be completely correct. Same goes for Reese Mogg, he goes to Goebells tailor and Hitler’s hairdresser, that would be enough for me to never vote for him even if Id never heard a word he’s said.

You’re calling people stupid whilst looking in a mirror.

That took a lot of words and, ultimately, you ended up basically saying that appearances are more important to you than policies when you vote. And you are calling other people stupid?

I openly call Brexiteers stupid. They never had a concerted idea what they wanted, and couldn’t enunciate a real-world version of what it was anyway. Now they have got their ill defined nonsense, they have absolutely no idea how to proceed without losing other things they supposedly cherish.

We are about to embark on the largest regulatory realignment ever attempted by a developed nation. As a result of what most people now say was ‘something to do with immigration’ without ever really saying what it was. Being rushed through by a bunch of shysters who can barely conceal their glee and contempt for the stupidity that is allowing them to do so.

There are going to be a lot casualties and no one can be certain where or how many because unpicking nearly fifty years of alignment on a whim is actually, yes actually, really **** difficult and no one yet knows the implications.

But yeah, let’s just do it anyway because err sovrunty or something.

Early on in this thread someone popped up with “don’t be so downbeat, it may be difficult, but no one has ever tried it before”. To which someone replied that they has never shoved a knitting needle up their urethra before but were pretty sure that it was a bad idea, so they wouldn’t be doing it.

Three and a half years on and we are actually going to go through with this madness and no one has a **** clue how to do it.

Pretty stupid eh?

If there was ignorance it was wilfull ignorance as demonstrated by some of the long-gone Brexit voters on this forum. It was obvious Brexit would screw the UK car industry and yet they argued against, wilfully ignoring any evidence to the contrary. Anyhow, I’m expecting bad news about Nissan Sunderland:

https://www.onvista.de/aktien/NISSAN-MOTOR-Aktie-US6547444082

Bad joke:

Nissan Juke

Nissan needs to invest in new platforms in Sunderland because the models it produces there are old hat. They’ve just finished a major investment cycle in the new Juke and people don’t want it. No way will they invest what little money they have in Sunderland post Brexit. You’re getting what you voted for Sunderland and I have little sympathy.

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/business/business-news/nissan-sees-sales-profits-drop-15665313

^^^^^

And that was obvious from the start.

Wait until the unforeseen stuff starts to hit. The amount of regulatory realignment is bewildering. I doubt even an expert in the field can envisage all of it, and would need to call on other people specialised in specific areas – experts, eh? Thought we’d had enough of them…..

Some of the implications of rules of origin and destination are an utter maze, made even worse by the border in the Irish Sea.

And because we are bloody idiots we are going to, apparently, whup those European asses into doing it all in eleven months. If we do, I can guarantee that numerous ‘oh shit’ moments will happen with factories and businesses literally grinding to a halt. These events will be unforeseeable until it is too late, and yet it will be those businesses’ fault for ‘not being prepared’, as if they can be prepared for all possible permutations of cock up that might occur. Or it will be a remoaner plot. Or immigrants.

I find it very difficult to get much beyond ‘stupid’ in trying to sum the whole thing up succinctly.

Cougar, Danny h,thanks for your response, I’ll put this to you:-

“The eyes they say are the first gates”

It’s an old saying I came across it in a book about renaissance painting. It means that we trust what we see much more what we hear in terms of rhetoric and argument.

Imagine this, you are walking around Hyde Park and there signs everywhere saying ‘There are no tigers (or cougars!) in this park’ All good you think. Then you see a tiger but tell yourself it can’t be a tiger because there’s signs everywhere saying that there are no tigers in this park. You’re going to get eaten.

Someone simple like me, who puts appearances first, would trust my eyes and recognise that if it looks like a tiger, it probably is a tiger, I wouldn’t put my trust in a sign saying there were none.

So yes, I’m superficial in my adherence to aesthetics over argument, moreover, If I saw such a sign I would be quite suspicious and either not enter the park, or make sure I had a shotgun with me just in case.

I am a remainer, of the liberal left, never voted Tory in my life, brexit is bad news for me and most, if not all of my friends and family. I signed the petition right after the referendum to try and halt brexit. Nearly all on here seem to think I’m some kind of Tory brexiter, you couldn’t be more wrong, in fact I’d go as far as to say you’re not even wrong.

There’s a difference between intentions and outcomes, the former are irrelevant, the latter are what we call reality. We know the road to disaster is paved with good intentions, Saying what you’d like to happen, or what should happen is often quite different to what actually happens. It’s the differences between being right and getting it right.

In order to achieve desirable outcomes we have to be pragmatic and nuanced, not idealistic and begin to recognise that human nature supercedes ideology.

Edukator-

You mention the long gone Brexit voters, well done all of you who’ve chased them away, helping to make this forum a purer space, a more glorious and perfected echo chamber of righteousness. Just like Momentum.

We don’t need discussion or debate here. What we need is more self aggrandizing, let’s make this place a safe space. If people share a similar moral compass and similar desires for society but aren’t prepared to sign up for the full ideological package, if they’re not prepared to shun those with different perspectives, let’s call them red tories, lets get the pitchforks out and shoo them away.

Let us rejoice in the misery soon to befall those who voted brexit in their ignorance, let us wallow in a little schadenfreudde, the phrase ‘ I told you so’ echoing through our brains as we nod off to sleep. Zzzźzzzzźz

For someone keen on reality that’s as divorced from reality as any STW post I’ve read recently.

I did understand you’re not a Brexiter, inkster, that much was clear. Good.

Edit: to reply to reply to the second part. Yes I’ve come to consider every bit of Brexit bad news as good news, that’s where three years of Tory lies and Labour fence sitting has led me. Maybe one day the people who voted for it will understand that they’re responsible for what happened – but most of the old fools will be dead by then.

You mention the long gone Brexit voters, well done all of you who’ve chased them away, helping to make this forum a purer space,

I actually find leave voters not being on this thread quite sad.
It might have felt like a pile on at times, but pretty much every time they popped up, their pro Brexit arguments have been debunked usually with pretty well researched & sourced articles.

dannyh

Member

I’ve got my #rejoin message on Facebook locked and loaded for 23:01 next Friday night.

… likes of me will be here, pointing out every fail, every broken promise and every unintended consequence.

This is never going to go away.

A message on Facebook! the keyboard warriors weapon of choice!

Poopscoop

Subscriber
Never had a tattoo.

I’m seriously considering having something with the Rejoin message and perhaps the EU flag on the top of my arm…

Very good idea. Can I suggest instead of having it on top of your arm – you have it across your forehead; that way more people will be able to see what an intelligent man you obviously are.

Fair play. Only a few hardcore Remainers on here nowadays. And real beauts they are too!

And just as I type it mooman pops up slinging some random insults rather than bothering to counter any points .

Im sure that their are reasoned arguments for leaving but instead we just get this ^^^

In order to achieve desirable outcomes we have to be pragmatic and nuanced, not idealistic and begin to recognise that human nature supercedes ideology

I’m not sure what use nuance & pragmatism is

I actually find leave voters not being on this thread quite sad.

Totally agree with that. I have one Facebook friend who would ever discuss Brexit at any length, I’m sure there were more keeping schtum and not getting involved, I’ve got remainer friends saying they’ll never talk to anyone they know voted Tory (which I have sympathy for) or to leave (which I don’t). What I value the most out of the above are my conversations with my leavey friend – even though we will clearly never agree, the division will never heal without dialogue, and it’s too important to allow contrary views to go unchallenged. And by the by, it ain’t worth falling out over.

inkster
Member

Imagine this, you are walking around Hyde Park and there signs everywhere saying ‘There are no tigers (or cougars!) in this park 349m pw for the NHS’ All good you think. Then you see a tiger moron but tell yourself it can’t be a tiger moron because there’s signs everywhere saying that there are no tigersmorons in this park. You’re going to get eaten voting.

Someone simple like me, who puts appearances first, would trust my eyes and recognise that if it looks like a tiger, it probably is a tiger, I wouldn’t put my trust in a sign saying there were none would believe almost anything if you repeat it enough.

So yes, I’m superficial in my adherence to aesthetics over argument,

I think I understand

In order to achieve desirable outcomes we have to be pragmatic and nuanced, not idealistic and begin to recognise that human nature supercedes ideology.

How would that help to produce desireable outcomes?

@mooman

Sling all the insults you like old chap.

Nothing is going to stop you having fail after dismal fail pointed out to you every time one pops up. And that is going to be a lot.

You seem to be getting very sweaty about a bit of ‘keyboard warriorship’, you aren’t getting a delayed form of buyer’s remorse are you?

You own the consequences.

You won, get over it.

#rejoin

mooman

Very good idea. Can I suggest instead of having it on top of your arm – you have it across your forehead; that way more people will be able to see what an intelligent man you obviously are.

Ohhhh cutting!

I can imagine what you’d have tattooed on your forehead as a result of what’s behind said forehead. 😉

It’s not about having intelligence, rather it’s about lacking stupidity. You don’t need to be a genius to understand the many flaws within Brexit.

I can imagine what you’d would have tattooed on your forehead as a result of what’s behind said forehead.

And it would be misspelt, naturally.