The dream of revocation is pretty much dead

It’s never been anything more than a pipe dream. 2nd ref is all we can hope for. That is the only way to remain.

TBH, opposition should just see whatever extension is offered, VONC Boris, get this fabled ‘unity gvt’ in place and actively push through an amended version of this deal either making it softer or contingent on a ref, or both.

This. Not gonna happen though while the lib dems and tory ‘remainers’ (who keep voting to leave) continue to play games for their own political benefit.

Of course, no game playing for their own political benefit going on in Labour, is there? Actually, perhaps there isn’t, and they are just being outplayed by everyone else. Either way, it’s all very depressing.

Well they’ve agreed a delay – but how long remains to be seen.

Personally I would’ve kicked us out. I guess they see the change of feeling in the country but ironically don’t wish to interfere with our internal politics.

Personally I would’ve kicked us out. I guess they see the change of feeling in the country but ironically don’t wish to interfere with our internal politics.

That would be a shortsighted move I think, as an institution the EU wants to keep it’s members and the longer this drags on and on the less likely any other government across Europe will succumb to any future pressure from it’s own population to hold a similar referendum. A couple of years ago one would hear talk of sections of other countries electorates being unhappy with EU membership. There is none of that now.

Boris continues to push for Brexit. pic.twitter.com/EPQT9eAf3W

— Tjeerd Royaards (@Royaards) October 22, 2019

Hope they go for 2 years.

I had a sudden revelation a couple of days ago, and I’m cross that I didn’t see it earlier.

Boris has been keen not to rule out ‘no deal’ as it weakens his bargaining position. And I thought, “well, the EU won’t care, they probably assume that we won’t be daft enough to actually do it and if we do then it’ll cripple us a lot more than the EU27.”

But it’s not about that at all, is it. Removing no deal weakens his bargaining power internally. If parliament is presented with Boris’ offer with the alternative – rejecting it – meaning we’re going to crash out then a lot of politicians will potentially be terrified enough to just hold their nose and vote for it.

Hope they go for 2 years.

Best way to deal with it.
Tell the UK it’s a 2-yr extension during which all normal EU membership rules, responsibilities and benefits continue as normal.

It whips the rug out from under the feet of the Government, puts the EU very firmly in the driving seat and brings an end to Boris’ relentless “end of October” rhetoric.

Hope they go for 2 years.

Only options being discussed are 15 days and three months.

What the ____?!?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/oct/24/majority-of-voters-think-violence-against-mps-is-price-worth-paying-for-brexit

Duff survey questions – click bait headline – only idiots have fallen for it

But it’s not about that at all, is it. Removing no deal weakens his bargaining power internally.

That’s all it has ever been about. Under May as well as Johnson. Apart from the few “total deregulation screw manufacturing, farming and non-financial services” ERG type MPs… the rest of parliament is always being told “this deal is the only way to avoid no deal”… but it has never been true.

Boris has been keen not to rule out ‘no deal’ as it weakens his bargaining position

Of course. It’s been his only bargaining power really.

only idiots have fallen for it

Whatever you say oh superior one. The results of the other questions, as regards economic sacrifices etc, seem to be very much inline with other similar surveys.

How about Boris stops shaking the Magic Brexit Money Tree on a cult that blatently makes the country worse off, revokes A50 and then offers £5k to every UK adult citizen that states their allegiance to Remain?

His rule in the first line is a very sound one.

What a load of nonsense.

I’ll bite… no one is claiming that any significant portion of the population want violence, or think it will happen, or actively seek it… so that unherd piece sets up a series of strawmen to knock down.

The survey (and similar surveys) just show the price that many are willing to put up with, if need be, to get the ends they want… not that people want that price to be paid, or think that it will be paid.

Unherd’s target audience is soft right leaning idiots looking for justification for their own woolly thinking.

no one is claiming that any significant portion of the population want violence, or think it will happen, or actively seek it… so that unherd piece sets up a series of strawmen to knock down.

So what point were you trying to get across by posting “What the ______?” an article headlined

Most voters think risk of violence against MPs is ‘price worth paying’ over Brexit

There really is no sanity left on this thread.

Because, it isn’t a price worth paying, and thought more people would agree with that. I thought a dead MP would make people more cautious.

Removing no deal weakens his bargaining power internally. If parliament is presented with Boris’ offer with the alternative – rejecting it – meaning we’re going to crash out then a lot of politicians will potentially be terrified enough to just hold their nose and vote for it.

The EU are probably playing for remain via a 2nd ref – it’ll make them look good and boost both our economies.

The best way to do this is to let the process run long enough to demonstrate that a 2nd ref is the only option; and as more problems come out of the woodwork to let remain sentiment build with the public.

So you think it is better to Brexit because Farage has been milkshaked

I had a sudden revelation a couple of days ago, and I’m cross that I didn’t see it earlier.

Boris has been keen not to rule out ‘no deal’ as it weakens his bargaining position. And I thought, “well, the EU won’t care, they probably assume that we won’t be daft enough to actually do it and if we do then it’ll cripple us a lot more than the EU27.”

But it’s not about that at all, is it. Removing no deal weakens his bargaining power internally. If parliament is presented with Boris’ offer with the alternative – rejecting it – meaning we’re going to crash out then a lot of politicians will potentially be terrified enough to just hold their nose and vote for it.

We never had any external bargaining position …
Internal … I don’t think Boris cared until he was given his explicit instructions more recently.
I’m guessing not long before the “dead in a ditch” line.
the explicit instructions seem to be no-deal or no tax avoidance

We never had any external bargaining position …

No, the nice Mr Gove said we held all the cards!

Just a shame his card pack neglected all the high ranking cards in favour of a busted flush and a couple of jokers…

A majority of U.K. lawmakers opposed a no-deal Brexit, likely rendering the threat a bluff, for now. But European leaders such as Ms. Merkel thought such a scenario could become a bigger risk later, if Mr. Johnson won a national election with the parliamentary majority that he lacks now.

Thus, “Boris’s threat of a no-deal worked,” a senior EU official said Thursday.

Ms. Merkel soon overruled Brussels’ insistence that reopening negotiations was impossible. In her pragmatic view, Germany and Europe need the U.K. as an ally after Brexit, including on foreign and security policy. A train-wreck Brexit could generate deep and lasting acrimony that would weigh further on the unity of the Western world, already tested by the EU’s fractious relations with President Trump.

From this article

No, the nice Mr Gove said we held all the cards!

Just a shame his card pack neglected all the high ranking cards in favour of a busted flush and a couple of jokers…

Wasn’t that “the day after the referendum we will hold all the cards” perhaps he meant for 24 hours only … he wouldn’t be lying would he and that just leaves stupid?

Agreed removing No Deal upsets the ERG & theyve been in the driving seat for some time

Yes EU reopened talks but Johnson gave up some hefty concessions to Ireland (completely betrayed DUP) to get it reopened

meanwhile

It seems if Parliament (Labour) dont agree an election in the next 11 days

it will be February before we do get one

With all the talk of an early election, it's crucial to be clear on the possible timings. Here is a quick thread on the key points:

(1/7)

— Alan Renwick (@alanjrenwick) October 25, 2019

as for ‘we hold all the cards’

this tweet nailed that bit of Gove stupidity….

EU lays down a royal flush. UK looks at own cards: Mr Bun the Baker, Pikachu, a Shadowmage, a fireball spell, and the Fool

— Thomas Cogley (@JohnnyPixels) September 23, 2016

it will be February before we do get one

Not sure that follows Parliament is unlikely to go into recess until the school holidays so plenty of time to vote for an election in January. But this is the correct analysis which is why the SNP saying they wanted a VONC so they could have an earlier election was so funny.

Never gets old, thanks @kimbers.

pic.twitter.com/eeV5U6rNS5

— Simon (@SimonHeath1) March 21, 2019

So, when’s the referendum? I’m still thinking we leave in May, with a WA, after a vote of some kind.

Or after two, or even three votes.

kelvin

Subscriber

So, when’s the referendum? I’m still thinking we leave in May, with a WA, after a vote of some kind.

We’re not leaving and never were.

JP

Oh look Johnson lied

I’ve been leaked a recent Dexeu document setting out in black & white how UK plans to diverge from EU on regulations despite Johnson assurances on workers rights etc

Read it here on @FT https://t.co/FsUovcc2Cq pic.twitter.com/I33fZ85l0f

— Jim Pickard (@PickardJE) October 25, 2019

The more it snows

tiddly-pom

The more it goes

tiddly-pom

The more it goes

tiddly-pom

On snowing

And nobody knows

tiddly-pom

How cold my toes

tiddly-pom

How cold my toes

tiddly-pom

Are growing.

If there is one thing Brexit has shown, it’s how few principled politicians there are in the major parties, and how rampant corruption is.

We need to hold our politicians to the same standards of conflict of interest as local councillors, not to a lesser one.

how few principled politicians there are

The problem you have there is, that a big chunk of the population have a very different idea about what a ‘principled politician’ is, and how they should act, to another big chunk of us.

Nice to see a vote of confidence in ‘Global Britain’ from those enthusiastic Brexiteers and owners of the Brexit mouthpiece the Daily Telegraph as they offload all their British Businesses

Looks like it : https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50192912

Hang on, they have their man as PM… everything is going their way in the UK right now…

Maybe Andrex will buy the telegraph.