You think the Gammons give a toss about NI???

You think the Gammons give a toss about NI???

“they’re nothing but blind fascists, brought up on hate and given lives to waste.”

Exactly, the fact that he’s negotiated a frontstop rather than a backstop matters not to them.

He will call it a victory & they’ll lap it up

You think the Gammons give a toss about NI???

By ‘Gammons’ do you mean somebody who doesnt agree with your point of view?

“they’re nothing but blind fascists, brought up on hate and given lives to waste

SLF for the win!

Didn’t a recent survy of gammons enthusiastic Brexiteers say that the economy taking a massive hit, Scotlandshire leaving the union, Oirland leaving the union and having their own grandchildren disemboweled in front of them with a rusty hacksaw blade would all be prices worth paying to leave the EU?

This is where we are going

Lets be ultra realistic. 19 Labour MPs backed Johnson and will again, vetoing a referendum. Britain is leaving the EU – all that is left is detail- and an interminable damaging Brexiternity stretches ahead and a 2nd rate trade deal.I hope I am wrong; but this a sad tragic night.

— Will Hutton (@williamnhutton) October 22, 2019

This Brexit thread is going to run for the next decade?

They think of everything………

Assuming some of you will have picked this up. But if not, worth a read. It’s a short enough article.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/22/operation-yellowhammer-brexit-preparations

Some schadenfreude for us all

Don’t forget – clocks go back this weekend. https://t.co/iReniFg3wP

— Tom Peck (@tompeck) October 23, 2019

Cleverly is a proper bell-end

clocks go back this weekend.

It’s a terrifying weekend for dyslexics though…..

By ‘Gammons’ do you mean somebody who doesnt agree with your point of view?

I mean the racist/xenophobic git brext dun at any cost leavers. Like my parents and a sad majority of my colleagues on the shop floor at work.

This Brexit thread is going to run for the next decade?

Probably.

http://peterjnorth.blogspot.com/2019/10/brexit-eyes-to-near-future.html

As a Brexitier he rules out the extension/election/furtherextension/referendum/remain path, but then his reasoning about why that is shrinkingly unlikely are probably sound. He highlights the clashes ahead after “Brexit Day”… clashes that exist because we still haven’t chosen what we want to replace membership with, or weighed up that alternative against keeping membership.

Theres a spectacularly dim Tory MP on five live at the moment (Gillian Keegan – MP for Chichester) telling us that all the economic forecasts showing a negative impact on the economy from Brexit are all wrong because they don’t factor in…..

robotics and artificial intelligence

She’s not expanding on this as to how this is going to change everything. She just keeps repeating the 4 words `robotics and artificial intelligence’

Seems a lot like David Davis’s statement ‘the Irish border won’t be an issue because….. technology’

One thing thats been genuinelly shocking over the past few years is the intellectual capacity of our elected representatives. They seem to have absolutely no understanding whatsoever of how a modern economy actually functions and be under the impression that you press a magic button called ‘technology’ and it miraculously sorts everything out for you.

doomaniac

I mean the racist/xenophobic git brext dun at any cost leavers. Like my parents and a sad majority of my colleagues on the shop floor at work.

Are the vast majority of these shop floor colleagues not immigrants?

That’s a loaded Q … I’m just making the point that what THEY fear (true/likely or not)
Fearing for your job when there are numerous examples of shop-floors worked almost exclusively by immigrants isn’t racist or even xenophobic.
Thinking that voting for Brexit will change it … is at best naive.

Moreover, I truly believe that ERG/Rees Mogg’s idea of a Points based system” would be to allocate points based on how cheap they can import unskilled/semi skilled workers.

But it’s official, Priti Patel does have a resting smirky face. The BBC acknowledges.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-50150993

1) Eastern Europeans being shipped in to take jobs

…

The first 1 is real…. but our own government could actually prevent this

Is it though? Are we actively “shipping in” anyone?

To the best of my knowledge, the last time we shipped in foreigners was shortly after WWII when we were desperate for skilled labour like doctors, and that was mostly from the Indian sub-continent.

But it’s official, Priti Patel does have a resting smirky face. The BBC acknowledges.

Oh dear, then I apologise unreservedly (fingers crossed behind back).

Are we there yet?

I have actually had enough

I think opposition parties should go hard on the point that Bojo’s deal does not mean Brexit is done it means PT1 is done.

Fearing for your job when there are numerous examples of shop-floors worked almost exclusively by immigrants isn’t racist or even xenophobic.

I think they need to be more worried about machines than immigrants. Perhaps they could start smashing them up, post-Brexit. I believe that was quite popular during the industrial revolution

Actually… with the Brexiteers desire to return us the halcyon goden age of empire, thats probably next on their itinerary

Surely you mean “robotics and artificial intelligence”?

Nobody’s factored that in you know. 😉

Cougar …

Is it though? Are we actively “shipping in” anyone?

To the best of my knowledge, the last time we shipped in foreigners was shortly after WWII when we were desperate for skilled labour like doctors, and that was mostly from the Indian sub-continent.

Yes …. and I heard it from both sides.
As in I have Polish relatives who have told me about the job adverts and bus and OH is Polish and knows plenty of more qualified people who have relatives/school friends etc. who have signed up and basically it’s slave labour.

It’s also quite complex … the industrial town my OH grew up in has suffered themselves.
The big employers have struggled to provide employment due to competition (Fiat and a shoe factory being 2) so one way or another the low skilled are doing a “Tebbit” but the Polish unemployment is far less than the UK so they have to do something.

It’s 1 1/2 hrs at best to Krakow … 4-5 to Warsaw… and despite this being a traditionally German speaking area (FIL used to work in Germany) for whatever complex reasons the UK is the destination.

Surely you mean “robotics and artificial intelligence”?
Nobody’s factored that in you know. 😉

Given the quality (lack of) of most Government Procured IT projects, they’ll probably accidentally create a version of Skynet which will wage war on itself for eternity.

binners

I think they need to be more worried about machines than immigrants. Perhaps they could start smashing them up, post-Brexit. I believe that was quite popular during the industrial revolution

Don’t disagree but then what derogatory term shall we apply… ? Luddites?
Let’s not forget we can run these all off the fusion plants Boris has promised!

The point is it is VERY easy for Leave to manipulate scared people.
Remain make it even easier by just dismissing them as racist… when most of them are just scared for their jobs or way of life.

As in I have Polish relatives who have told me about the job adverts and bus

Adverts as in, what, UK companies advertising in Poland, going “hey, come here and work for us”?

Bus?

Remain make it even easier by just dismissing them as racist… when most of them are just scared for their jobs or way of life.

I totally agree that it’s unhelpful to scream “racist” every time someone mentions people of a different ethnic background. But you’re as guilty as anyone of rash generalisations here.

I’ve said before, I live in an area with a high Asian population. There’s Fatima Fabrics just down the road, and a mosque round the corner. I have no doubts that my grandparents would have been appalled and yes, I don’t particularly enjoy the call to prayer being blasted out at all hours. But a fear of it affecting my “way of life” is hyperbole at best, the fact of the matter is that it’s affected my way of life not one jot. British civilisation didn’t crumble the day Abdul opened up a kebab shop in town.

I was cutting my hedge back the other day, the beardy Pakistani bloke two doors down insisted that his two 20-something sons helped and wouldn’t take no for an answer. They properly put their backs into it with nary a complaint, filling maybe eight bin-bags full of cuttings. They’re great neighbours, it’s the few white families on the block that are shits.

I’d posit that perhaps it’s not really a fear of losing their job, it’s a fear of having to do some bloody work in order to compete with those wanting to do it.

filling maybe eight bin-bags full of cuttings

you must have a big bush

I’d posit that perhaps it’s not really a fear of losing their job, it’s a fear of having to do some bloody work in order to compete with those wanting to do it.

But your rash generalization is better than his rash generalization?

It’s alright, Brexit will safeguard their jobs and protect their “way of life”, whatever that may mean. [sarcasm]

and despite this being a traditionally German speaking area (FIL used to work in Germany) for whatever complex reasons the UK is the destination.

There are over 2 million Polish people in Germany (3 million if you include 2nd generation immigrants which the Germans don’t), 900,000 in the UK. Germany is very much the destination of choice for Polish immigrants.

But gullible people are easily misled by false statements such as yours into believing that everyone is heading to the UK. It feeds into the racist narrative of British exceptionalism, but it just isn’t true.

Johnson’s withdrawal Act passed last night by 329 to 299. Unbelievably that’s 52% to 48%. it’s fast becoming the defining numbers of our time

It didn’t pass.

It was just start of the process.

As in I have Polish relatives who have told me about the job adverts and bus and OH is Polish and knows plenty of more qualified people who have relatives/school friends etc. who have signed up and basically it’s slave labour.

That’s an agency problem, nothing to do with the fact they’re Polish. Agency workers get treated like shit even if they’re British too. Remember the Morcambe Bay cockle pickers? They were Chinese, not really an EU problem either.

Not sure what the point is about ‘bussing them in’ other than scaremongering? The suggestion seemed to be that ‘they’ were in fact the government organising the imported labour. I don’t think this is the case?

Chris Byrant “scaremongering”

There are over 2 million Polish people in Germany (3 million if you include 2nd generation immigrants which the Germans don’t), 900,000 in the UK. Germany is very much the destination of choice for Polish immigrants.

It is a rate of change issue, we went from having a pretty small Polish community to a very significant one in a relatively short space of time. Germany has always had a large community.
Similar issues are arising in Germany in relation to their recent influx of immigrants from Muslim countries, only the other day Merkel made a speech saying their experiment in multiculturalism was failing.

only the other day Merkel made a speech saying their experiment in multiculturalism was failing.

You mean this?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11559451

The other day in this case being 2010?

you must have a big bush

Not any more, do pay attention. (-:

But your rash generalization is better than his rash generalization?

Yeah, fair point.

Cougar….

Adverts as in, what, UK companies advertising in Poland, going “hey, come here and work for us”?

Who knows … (not being facetious)…. but

Molgrips

That’s an agency problem, nothing to do with the fact they’re Polish. Agency workers get treated like shit even if they’re British too. Remember the Morcambe Bay cockle pickers? They were Chinese, not really an EU problem either.

I don’t disagree … I’m not saying it IS a EU problem, I’m saying LEAVE are saying it’s a EU problem!
Leave are also saying the same people are taking your jobs and claiming your benefit and using your NHS and your schools…
It’s all bollox… but that doesn’t stop people being scared!

Not sure what the point is about ‘bussing them in’ other than scaremongering? The suggestion seemed to be that ‘they’ were in fact the government organising the imported labour. I don’t think this is the case?

No, their perception is the government perhaps… but that’s not the point???
The point is Leave blame the EU … governments/remain have never actually corrected that and indeed have to some extent been happy to blame the EU. (Incl. Pro EU Govt’s) whilst lying scum like Boris were writing editorials crap… and Tory’s defending ZHC’s.

The issue I see is that ZHC’s are pretty much an abomination anyway…. banning those would be a start to addressing… and there is plenty of EU legislation that would SUPPORT this… we (UK) are pretty much pushing the limits.

The UK governments could also just prevent immigrant workers into specific local industries. Again pushing on an open door… (The French do it) so long as it means what it say’s (local).
You can’t say someone from Durness as a right to apply for a job in Folkstone but someone from Calais can’t…. but you can specific applicants must be local.
Again, it’s another cop-out ‘blame the EU’ when it’s a UK govt problem and leave had a field day.

Cougar

I totally agree that it’s unhelpful to scream “racist” every time someone mentions people of a different ethnic background. But you’re as guilty as anyone of rash generalisations here.

Quite possibly but it’s not a crime (yet)

I’ve said before, I live in an area with a high Asian population. There’s Fatima Fabrics just down the road, and a mosque round the corner. I have no doubts that my grandparents would have been appalled and yes, I don’t particularly enjoy the call to prayer being blasted out at all hours. But a fear of it affecting my “way of life” is hyperbole at best, the fact of the matter is that it’s affected my way of life not one jot. British civilisation didn’t crumble the day Abdul opened up a kebab shop in town.

I was cutting my hedge back the other day, the beardy Pakistani bloke two doors down insisted that his two 20-something sons helped and wouldn’t take no for an answer. They properly put their backs into it with nary a complaint, filling maybe eight bin-bags full of cuttings. They’re great neighbours, it’s the few white families on the block that are shits

Again, I’ll differentiate between neighbours and neighbourhood.
It doesn’t bother you but that doesn’t mean anyone it does bother is racist.
I spent most of my working life living in other cultures, it’s not a big deal for me either… but I can understand if people are scared or feel uncomfortable.

It’s also specific areas… and again “integration” most of my pakistani friends in the SE live in multi-cultural places (I can’t actually think of any who don’t). Most of the ones from the NW from the 80’s lived in enclaves…. quite a few of them moved away and now live in multi-cultural places after uni, others got trapped.

MSP

There are over 2 million Polish people in Germany (3 million if you include 2nd generation immigrants which the Germans don’t), 900,000 in the UK. Germany is very much the destination of choice for Polish immigrants.

But gullible people are easily misled by false statements such as yours into believing that everyone is heading to the UK. It feeds into the racist narrative of British exceptionalism, but it just isn’t true.

Reread what I wrote…. I’m talking specifically about the ones going for un-named ZHC’s.
I don’t think Germany would even allow the level of slavery the UK supports!

The issue I see is that ZHC’s are pretty much an abomination anyway….

#1 Cash in hand.
#2 ZHC.

Two differences, as far as I can see.

ZHC can be taxed.
ZHC looks like “employment” therefore no more benefits for you sonny jim.

I didn’t I saw a report of a more recent speech, but I certainly used the word failing because of that article because when I googled to check I didn’t pick up the date. However, I don’t think it is controversial to say that immigration has led to significant concerns about integration in Germany as they have done here, but it would be fair to say Merkel is much more upbeat about them than my wording suggested.

Who knows …

I rather assumed you did as you were the one saying that Polish friends had told you all about it?

It’s all bollox… but that doesn’t stop people being scared!

Sure. It’s perception vs reality, which was kind of what I was getting at.

It doesn’t bother you but that doesn’t mean anyone it does bother is racist.

Yeah, but it doesn’t mean they aren’t either.

But we’re going round in circles now, I agreed in a previous post that it could be xenophobia rather than outright racism. But I’d like to bet it’s not as one-sided towards the former as you seem to be asserting.

If I polled the good, upstanding white people in my home town and asked them if they didn’t want to live near Asian families and why, I rather doubt I’d get many saying that it was because of a lack of cucumber sandwiches, Morris dancing and croquet on the lawn.

There’s a report from a few hours ago online saying that Merkel has said that “multi-kulti” has failed. Some of the quotes are verbatim from that 2010 speech – maybe she’s just given the same speech again somewhere? Of course, that’s not quite what she said.

Then there’s the story about one of her political allies having to have police protection because of death threats from Far Right extremists.

Oh sorry, I didn’t mention where I read the report from three hours ago…

Fox News.

(Not somewhere I go for news, but I guess plenty of people do.)