leave to the heart

Not much heart in the leave propaganda. Fear, racism.

@Kelvin

I fear this can only go badly for the union.

Thank you for the laugh, i read unicorns instead of union 😉

I think it is probably valid to have some concern for the unicorns too 🙂

Doesnt look like a referendum ammendment has been tabled yet? I’m beginning to think those in favour of a peoples vote are actually unkeen to have one

Looks like the Dom and Dommer double act is in action again

Joris Bohnson is on his feet in the commons doing his usual wiffle-waffle-piffle-paffle thing. Meanwhile ‘a source at number 10’ (who on earth could that be, I wonder?) has said he could pull the whole bill if it looks like its not going to get through and go for Tory MP’s calling a VONC in the government to force a general election

All fun and games

Dare anyone predict?

Dare anyone predict?

Vote for second reading will pass, Programme vote will fail . GE before xmas.

go for Tory MP’s calling a VONC in the government to force a general election

Hilarious. Just when you thought that things couldn’t get any more farcical, you have a Conservative Govt which may tell its own members of Parliament to declare just how shit it is.

Wouldn’t it be great if they did this and it got voted down?

Vote for second reading will pass, Programme vote will fail . GE before xmas.

Gammon for Xmas.

Nah Corbyn will bail on the GE and we end up with Johnson in government but not in power until term runs out?

I know will never happen, but oh how I will chuckle

—

Reality is that programme will fail, but enough Labour Mps have come out & said theyll vote for it on 2nd reading it will pass (even though its obvious to all that this version of brexit is a hard right wet dream & no left wing MP would touch it with barge poll)

unless of course they are involved with right wing think tanks…

"Prosperity UK" – the falsely named far right Brexiteers' propaganda group where Labour MPs meet with other members of the far right to sell out their constituents, their country, the poor and the working class.https://t.co/IRxIBpefc8 pic.twitter.com/j7rTxi3kZc

— Joe Reynolds #FBPE (@joeinlondontown) October 21, 2019

Autumn is here and the leaves are falling.

A blonde buffoon stands

Lies fall from his lips like leaves

Autumn of deceit

Beardy Grandad stands

Ineffectual response

We’re all bloody doomed

Project fear?

And yes, of course it did. We knew this three years ago, remain appealed to the head, leave to the heart. That’s why we lost. And we’ve not yet learned from this, which is why another referendum is dangerous.

Because leave isn’t concerned with facts, it’s all about feelings – it feels wrong for us to be “told what to do by Brussels”, it’s not hard to see how this is a compelling argument, the fact that it has no basis in reality is irrelevant.

The appeal of Leave was way wider… Brussels was just a convenient victim due to successive governments blaming anything unpopular on the EU and failing to acknowledge what we got from being in the EU.

The best way I can put this is the EU was made to represent “Snowflakes”… and Leave was made out to be Winston Churchill, the British Tommy .. the Queen as head of a commonwealth who are falling over themselves to be let back into an Empire.

What I’ve heard Leave say time after time is “they” can’t tell us what we can say, think or do…. and the second you point out that if “they” is the EU they are not telling us X,Y,Z its A,B,C …

An example is “they” are shipping in busses of Polish people and the jobs in the local warehouse/factory are all Polish… noone else can apply.

Of course the EU are not organising and laying on busses… and our government can easily prevent this not by defying EU rules but by actually embracing them. Many other EU nations create protection for local jobs.

“They are coming and using the NHS for free” …. again .. totally in our control… our governments have just not bothered to collect or bill…to a large extent because of what might be considered snowflake reasons “we don’t want to upset people by asking them to show ID before treatment”. (This is a different thing to saying we will refuse to treat people WITHOUT ID and EHIC ..) given the Tory’s didn’t implement this I am just assuming that the amount is quite trivial and not worth billing but Leave managed to convince them this is why we have waiting lists.

Effectively remain refused to engage their fears… if they had then it would be obvious Turkey didn’t join the EU (and would require a unanimous vote even if they actually wanted to)…. etc. but instead it was dismissed as “racist” or other negative terms.

Leave created a load on monsters under the bed… and Remain just said “there are no such things as monsters – discussing them is forbidden” – sure factually correct but when my kid was younger actually taking the time and going and showing them under the bed etc. instead of just repeating facts would have been more effective. Or perhaps its like saying that grass snake is harmless… stop your stupid reaction…. ???

I think this may be right

A wild guess at what happens next: @BorisJohnson wins second reading, MPs who feel guilty about backing the deal then block programme motion; EU grants extension of a few weeks. Johnson accepts (and doesn't pull bill). Brexit happens. No election till 2020. Lab changes leader.

— George Parker (@GeorgeWParker) October 22, 2019

Labour have blown it and they are going to spend the next few months in bitter leadership fight while Johnson chuckles his arse off

By the sounds of the coverage from parliament, a fair number of labour MP’s are going to vote with the government tonight. I think its absolutely insane that they’re actually going to support a far right wing project which hands a Tory government the power to do away with workers rights and whatever else they fancy

In response to them standing up and saying that, Grandad took the opportunity to reiterate, helpfully, that they wouldn’t lose the whip for doing so

A few Tory MP’s, including Iain Duncan Smith, stood up to remind him that he has shared anti-EU platforms with them on numerous occassions, and consistently voted with them against EU legislation

I think this may be right

Other than Labour changing leader, I would agree. Can’t see Corbyn not being given a chance in the Election

Effectively remain refused to engage their fears… if they had then it would be obvious Turkey didn’t join the EU (and would require a unanimous vote even if they actually wanted to)…. etc. but instead it was dismissed as “racist” or other negative terms.

Funnily enough, every leaver I tried to engage, gently, with the facts of what you wrote ended up telling me (and I’m paraphrasing, here): La la la, I’m not listening, I’ve had enouh of facts, this is about feelings and immigrants…

And I just do no know how to counter that level of willfull denial

By the sounds of the coverage from parliament, a fair number of labour MP’s are going to vote with the government tonight.

It’s tricky though – there’s 2 votes, no?

The withdrawal bill itself, and a vote for or against the 3 day timetable.

The latter I cant see getting through.

The withdrawal agreement, well, I dont think it’s that simple, doesn’t it have to be voted through so amendemnts, such a a second ref. can be made?

With the 3 day deadline put to bed, Bojo will have to accept the extension that the EU will offer – I’m sure they (EU) are just waiting for this event before they offer an extension, why else would they wait to make a decision?

That’s if my understanding is correct?

 I think its absolutely insane that they’re actually going to support a far right wing project which hands a Tory government the power to do away with workers rights and whatever else they fancy

I think maybe there is an element in the Labour party that now really believes a general election will result in a Tory majority and an even worse deal that would inevitably follow. So the least bad option is to support what is in front of them now.

Mattyfez – Thats right (as far as I can tell).

He’ll win the first vote (with a chunk of labour support) But he’s also then saying that if he doesn’t win the second vote (on the 3 days) then he’ll refuse to pursue the original bill and go for bringing about a VONC in his own gobvernment, then its an extension to allow for a general election

Just when you thought politics in this country couldn’t get any more hatstand

**** me – I’m not going to link it here cos that’s the whole point but the Tories have just used Comic Sans on Twitter.

Are the DUP voting or abstaining on teh programme motion

if abstaining I think Johnson will do it

I still cant see Corbyn sticking around much longer, if Johnson gets this deal through he’s set to romp home in any election before the damage has time to filter through

Grandad can’t go anywhere until the sixth formers let him. And they look like they’ve still a healthy appitite for living under permenent Tory rule

Are the DUP voting or abstaining on teh programme motion

Well they’ve got huge issues with the WAB,

https://twitter.com/dupleader?lang=en

so it stands to reason that they’d vote against government on the programme motion too?…

so it stands to reason

This is the DUP though. Best not to try and figure out their plans based on reason.

I reckon Johnson will edge it

https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1186673512783716357

those 9 ‘labour’ MPs tho, WTF?

Corbyn in commons just refused to say he’d remove the whip from any that helped Johnson get it through

those 9 ‘labour’ MPs tho, WTF?

Yes, quite, quite so.

Corbyn in commons just refused to say he’d remove the whip from any that helped Johnson get it through

He went further than that. He actually stated, quite catagorically, that they would not have the whip removed if they voted with the governemnt. So he’s given the nod that its effectively a free vote.

I’m surprised anyone’s surprised.

Once a brexiteer…

“They are coming and using the NHS for free” …. again .. totally in our control…

Moreover, they’re coming over here and staffing our NHS.

Leave created a load on monsters under the bed… and Remain just said “there are no such things as monsters – discussing them is forbidden”

You keep saying this, and I don’t believe it to be true. Or at least, it may have been an element but it’s not wholly the case.

Sure, people not wanting Turkey to join the EU may well have been born from racism / xenophobia. But the only response I ever gave (or saw) to the claim that “Turkey is set to join” was “no it isn’t.” I very highly doubt that anyone ever said “sure, let Turkey join the EU, it’d be racist to even discuss opposing it.”

Looks like it’s a no from the DUP on both counts:

Sammy Wilson MP
The Prime Minister has lost my respect. Instead of owning his decision to capitulate on Northern Ireland to get his deal through in a hurry, he is implying that none of us can read the detail. It creates a border in the Irish Sea and the @duponline will not support it.

What I really cannot get my head Round is the fact a Labour leader cannot stand there, demand silence and simply say.
The Labour Party has analysed the BJ deal in depth.
It is bad for the UK as whole, nothing will be better than what we have under the EU umbrella.
It is worse for jobs
It is worse for industry
It is worse for every tax payer in the UK
We predict a recession lasting at least 5 years
2 million more unemployed
Hospitals short of essential drugs and staff
Schools with no cleaners
Voting for this deal will be beneficial to a tiny minority who stand to gain greatly whilst the majority of the population will suffer under it and the labour party will not support it in any way

So he does none of that and wonders if his rhubarb is ready on his allotment

sobreitry

Funnily enough, every leaver I tried to engage, gently, with the facts of what you wrote ended up telling me (and I’m paraphrasing, here): La la la, I’m not listening, I’ve had enouh of facts, this is about feelings and immigrants…

And I just do no know how to counter that level of willfull denial

Unless you just happen to be a politician there is only so much you can do…
The first step I have taken is actually to listen though….

la la la … immigrants … and I say (names are just made up)
“You mean like Dr. Patel ?”
well no of course not ….
“Oh so like my boss who’s a lovely bloke?”
well I don’t know him but no….
“or my OH then?”
well no of course not…
“my mate Isaac the american Jew?”
oh no he’s lovely…. such a nice family

ultimately this repeats and in 90% of the time it’s down to 1 of 2 things… (or both)

1) Eastern Europeans being shipped in to take jobs
2) Ghetto’s of pretty much anyone else….

This is 2019…. that’s not to say there aren’t any real racists left… but it’s certainly not 51% of the population. Just not wanting people shipped in to take jobs isn’t racist … not wanting a ghetto of people who are different where you live isn’t racist (any more than when I go on holiday taking pains to avoid being stuck in a cluster of English) …

The first 1 is real…. but our own government could actually prevent this

The second ? It’s a bit difficult… Imagine if Wales was a bit sick of English people buying houses and instead of burning perfectly good houses down just said there can only be X% English owned homes in each borough or ward ??? (oops sorry that was the 80’s) I don’t really see how in or out of the EU really changes this?
Funny enough the conversation I’m thinking of was a Welsh lady who’d moved to England… to be fair the NE and not into a “Welsh Ghetto” but when I turned this around and asked her “so if you wanted to move to England… but you got told you couldn’t move into a specific area because it had too many Welsh people … she partially got it… then again would it be preferable anyway? I’m pretty sympathetic to people in Spain saying “we love you but please don’t come and buy more houses” (One of my kids insta followers posted something from spain in that vein)

This is 2019…. that’s not to say there aren’t any real racists left…

There are real, genuine racists left, all over the place. Thinner in numbers, but still hanging on in there. Enough for Farage to play to.

singletrackmind, he said all that today in Parliament

Beardy Grandad stands

Ineffectual response

We’re all bloody doomed

No Kigo reference (seasons), bad Hiaku

I was at work…

Bloody Hell! Boris has won a vote!

That’s better.

Bloody Hell! Boris has won a vote!

Crikey …

Bring on the GE and drain the swamp. 😆