EU Referendum – are you in or out?

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  • EU Referendum – are you in or out?
  • Has he in this case ? The courts will decide whether he has or not.

    The Supreme Court has already stuck that label on him.

    Premier Icon jezzep
    Subscriber

    I’m in nough said 😉

    JeZ

    ctk
    Member

    Not in London.

    The papers and various leave figures keep saying variations on the people won’t accept it and there’ll be unrest, but its bollocks.

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    Has he in this case ? The courts will decide whether he has or not.
    All the criticism of BJ on here forgets that he was given the PM job with the single caveat of delivering brexit. He’s going to at least try to do that one way or another.

    He was also elected on a manifesto not to put customs checks down the Irish sea

    He even promised the DUP he wouldn’t at their conference

    Promised his own MPs he wouldn’t prorogue parliament

    Promised his constituency he’d lie before the bulldozers

    All those affairs and illegitimate kids

    He seems to break every promise he makes, why would anyone expect him to suddenly be true to his word now?

    taxi25
    Member

    The Supreme Court has already stuck that label on him.

    The supreme court said his prolonging of parliament was unlawful. But that wasn’t established untill after the fact. No law was ever broken.

    PJM1974
    Member

    The WA that Boris has is basically the same as May’s but with environmental, consumer and employment rights removed. It’s temporary and mandates a Jan 1st 2021 trade treaty otherwise we revert to WTO terms. Naturally, the latter is wholly unpalatable unless you’re a member of the ERG.

    squadra
    Member

    Parliament was not prorogued (or prolonged).

    squadra
    Member

    Johnson’s deal also breaches May’s self-imposed red line re. border in Irish Sea. Despite which, she voted for it today. For May, Brexit means any old shit.

    athgray
    Member

    Johnson’s deal also breaches May’s self-imposed red line re. border in Irish Sea. Despite which, she voted for it today. For May, Brexit means any old shit.

    To be fair, May’s red lines were set in part due to the ghost of Ian Paisley shouting ‘Never, Never, Never!” in her ear.

    Doris Johnson is less hamstrung by the neanderthal numb skulls of the DUP than she was.

    PJM1974
    Member

    Brexit was always about frenzied deregulation, setting up a sweatshop on the borders of the EU and flooding the market with deregulated tat via leaky borders.

    I don’t much care for realigning ourselves with the Americans, especially not under Trump or the GOP. Most people confronted with the cold facts would share those misgivings.

    Premier Icon mazdarati
    Subscriber

    Brexit was always about frenzied deregulation, setting up a sweatshop on the borders of the EU and flooding the market with deregulated tat via leaky borders.

    I don’t much care for realigning ourselves with the Americans, especially not under Trump or the GOP. Most people confronted with the cold facts would share those misgivings.

    It’s quite astounding how the Eurosceptic agenda has been promoted relentlessly through the redtops over the last 20+ years to the ordinary people in the UK.

    Brexit is most certainly not in the interests of the majority, but will make the privileged few wealthier and more powerful. The majority will suffer, with the most vulnerable being 1st in the queue.

    Read today in the Irish press that we now have net migration from UK to Ireland for probably the 1st time in history…

    Premier Icon dudeofdoom
    Subscriber

    Horrifying to say but we are one our way out with a Hard Brexit and then desperate pain and conflict for many years to come. Hell we still might crash out in 14 months anyway as the trade deals are always going to be the hard part after the “easy” withdrawal deal.

    Yep it’s why the erg are on-board with the ‘deal’, once Brexits‘done’ on 31 they’ll attempt to play everything Brexit related down.

    After all we’re out the eu and it’s all happy days for 14 months , he’ll get re-elected as saviour of Brexit and (as we’re really still in it)nothing has changed so no bad side effects yet and the erg have 14 months to vote down anything and can happily drop out on wto.

    kerley
    Member

    It’s quite astounding how the Eurosceptic agenda has been promoted relentlessly through the redtops over the last 20+ years to the ordinary people in the UK.

    Brexit is most certainly not in the interests of the majority, but will make the privileged few wealthier and more powerful. The majority will suffer, with the most vulnerable being 1st in the queue.

    Replace Brexit will Tory party and all you said is also true. How much difference that makes to voting it is probably not possible to say but it must make some difference.

    Premier Icon dudeofdoom
    Subscriber

    Tbh when someone’s selling you a ‘great new deal’ you know there full of shit.

    Especially when that great new deal starts out shafting workers rights and the environment and you’ve got a PM telling you it allows them to implement greater rights than the EU, although the EU rights are a minimum requirement and the members can go above them.

    Gotta love taking back control you never lost.

    Edukator
    Member

    Have just returned from Parliament Square where I was protesting along with others.

    Thank you for being there, PMJ1974.

    Premier Icon epicyclo
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    squadra

    Does anyone believe that Brexiteers could muster a peaceful demonstration in the hundreds or even tens of thousands?

    No problem at all.

    Oh, you were talking about people, not pounds….  🙂

    spekkie
    Member

    Nail on the head 🙂

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    I really don’t think Johnson has thought through the implications of stabbing the DUP in the back.

    Those guys really know how to hold a grudge

    Theyre still getting fired up about 330 year old battles

    If we end up with johnsons border down the Irish sea- ever closer to reunification of Ireland , could we end up seeing Johnson effigies on those big bonfires?

    All the criticism of BJ on here forgets that he was given the PM job with the single caveat of delivering brexit.

    Not by the electorate 🙄

    andypaul
    Member

    Especially when that great new deal starts out shafting workers rights and the environment

    What are where is your proof that leaving the EU will automatically be worse for workers rights and the enviroment?

    Onzadog
    Member

    Workers rights, consumer rights and the environment are all things they felt needed to be changed between May’s deal and Boris’s deal.

    Are we supposed to believe that was just for shits and giggles?

    kerley
    Member

    What are where is your proof that leaving the EU will automatically be worse for workers rights and the enviroment?

    It is not automatically worse. But when the government in power consists of Johnson, Raab, Patel and co do you seriously think they are going to look to improve workers right or remove them?
    Same for environmental policies, better or worse?

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    @andypaul

    What are where is your proof that leaving the EU will automatically be worse for workers rights and the enviroment?

    Johnson specifically removed them from the legally binding WA into the meaningless political declaration

    The only reason that was done, was because the ERG want to rip them up & despite what Raab says today- he has for example said several times that he wants out the working time directive & to remove ‘burdensome’ protections for agency workers.

    During the ref Patel gave a speech saying she wanted to halve the ‘burden’ of workers rights

    Who let the cats out? Priti Patel suggests we could lose half our EU work rights after #Brexit

    We also need to lower standards if we are to accept American farm produce as part of an FTA etc

    andypaul
    Member

    Workers rights, consumer rights and the environment

    So what worker rights are you afraid we are going to loose completely?

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    So what worker rights are you afraid we are going to loose completely?

    Specifically working time directive, & extending ft benefits to agency workers as Raab has said previously https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/dominic-raab-brexit-eu-workers-rights-uk-talks-brexit-secretary-a8438706.html

    And whatever Patel views as a burden, which according to her is half all the regs from the EU!

    kerley
    Member

    So what worker rights are you afraid we are going to loose completely?

    Probably most of them over 10 years. And then when a party (i.e Labour) want to bring them all back there will be cries of “how can you do this to the hard working small business owners that are the backbone of our economy”

    If you haven’t seen this shit before or can’t see it happening I am guessing you are in your 20’s.

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    It must be a strange existence on planet Leave.

    3 years ago:
    Leave: “We don’t want to be told what to do by Brussels.”
    Remain: “Which laws do you want to remove, specifically?”
    Leave: “Umm… ?”

    Today:
    Remain: “The UK is going to remove EU laws.”
    Leave: “Which laws are we removing, specifically?”
    Remain: “These ones, look.”
    Leave: “Got any proof?”

    This is what you voted for remember, now it looks like there’s a chance you might get it and you don’t want to believe it. **** me gently with a chainsaw, the day you lot work out what you actually want there will probably be a parade. What’s it going to take, at this point I’d almost believe that you could literally set a leaver on fire and they’d still stand there shouting “project fear, it’s just a bit warm.” Open your damned eyes, man.

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    Had this argument with my dad yesterday

    He just regurgitates what the Sun/ Mail / Farage tells him

    Before Ref, Farage on QT : “we can be an independent successful nation out of the EU, just like Norway” – Big cheers from the leavers in audience

    After Ref, Farage on QT “Norway deal isn’t Brexit, it’s a betrayal” – Big cheers from the leavers in audience

    Brexit has caused me to lose a lot of respect for my dad

    Premier Icon moonsaballoon
    Subscriber

    So from a remainers point of view whats the best case scenario ? It looks like the votes are there for the bill so is our only hope now a 2nd ref amendment attached to it ? I thinks its to late for the whole VONC thing and government of  unity , to many egos getting the way to get it done , should of done it weeks ago .

    andypaul
    Member

    If you haven’t seen this shit before or can’t see it happening I am guessing you are in your 20’s.

    I wish i was in my 20’s!

    Premier Icon onewheelgood
    Subscriber

    So from a remainers point of view whats the best case scenario ?

    I am getting to the point where I think it’s time to join the Brexodus and just leave the **** to it. I’m 60, so whatever happens I’m not going to live to see this mess sorted out. I’ll take myself and my money somewhere else and watch it from a distance.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    If you’re in any doubt what the present Tory party want to do with workers rights then take a glance at the book Brittania Unchained Written by Liz Truss,Dominic Raab and Priti Patel.

    It’s all there in black and white. They want to basically do away with the stuff we presently take for granted. Paid holiday, maternity leave, sick pay, restrictions on working hours, the minimum wage.. the lot, gone, if they get their way

    brakes
    Member

    onewheelgood – that’s the kind of selfish view that has got us where we are today.

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    So from a remainers point of view whats the best case scenario ?

    Nigel farage to pull a rubber mask off on question time to reveal the Jeremy Beadle has pranked the entire nation?

    mbl1
    Member

    I just had 3 police cars fly past me so I foolishly switched to my local radio station. Radio Kent, and somewhat randomly a call in hosted by Lembit Opik.

    It has been a thoroughly depressing experience. Caller after caller of retirement age singing the praises of Johnson, ranting that MPs and “Remainers” are traitors and harping on about what a great deal Johnson has negotiated.

    It scares me that this particular generation is so sure of themselves and are so blind to the damage that is being done. Someone once told me that this voting group would be incredibly powerful if they could ever get organised. That turns out to be very true.

    I’ve no idea of Opik’s take on Brexit but I certainly admire his patience with dopey people though.

    TiRed
    Member

    There is the obvious workers right that will be removed, and that is the right to take ones labour freely to any other EU nation without issue.

    As for regulations, I’ve already mentioned how I believe the UK will become a second tier country when it comes to access to new medicines.

    The MHRA is not leading the clinical review of any new medicines in the EU now. Either they will work like Switzerland (submission after EU approval a year or so later) or we will accept the EMA decision as given.

    Premier Icon dudeofdoom
    Subscriber

    What are where is your proof that leaving the EU will automatically be worse for workers rights and the enviroment?

    Where’s your Proof they’ll be better then 🙂

    Explain why you think they were moved from the withdrawal Agreement (legally enshrined in law )to the Pointless Decleration then ?

    They were minimum standards that our government could improve upon them if they ever wanted but now they’re going to be something that can happily Be dropped without any interference from that pesky EU.

    Premier Icon moonsaballoon
    Subscriber

    What are where is your proof that leaving the EU will automatically be worse for workers rights and the enviroment?

    from Kier Starmers speach

    <p lang=”en” dir=”ltr”>The Pm's letter to President Tusk of 19th Aug, said the point of the exit was to allow the UK to diverge from rights and standards of EU. &quot;Let's nail this one. You don't need that if you want to go up and have higher standards.&quot;</p>&mdash; Ian Dunt (@IanDunt) October 19, 2019

    <script async src=”https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js&#8221; charset=”utf-8″></script>

    <p lang=”en” dir=”ltr”>&quot;So anyone who wants to change the rule, is not doing it to have the freedom to have better standards. The only reason you need to diverge is if you want to go down.&quot;</p>&mdash; Ian Dunt (@IanDunt) October 19, 2019

    <script async src=”https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js&#8221; charset=”utf-8″></script>

    Premier Icon colournoise
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    Starmer is (and has been) one of the few clear voices of logic and reason through all of this. Shame more people aren’t listening.

    Sadly, I feel a Starmer-led Labour party would not be in the sorry place the current one is. He’s clearly got that on his mind though, since he categorically denied having thought about leadership on Marr this morning…

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