On a technical point: EU regs are direct law in member states. Directives are transposed into member state law, and there are derogations in both, which are choices for member states. The role of the European commission is to assess compliance. Lecture over, but my point is that divergence from any of this will be done via legislation

I’ve been banging on about this, they’ll be able to do whatever they like with no EU oversight.

we have been expecting a hard or no deal Brexit for a long time precisely because of Corbyns labour

There was a lot the defeated remain side could have done in the time since the referendum. They could have engaged with moderate leavers to ensure a soft brexit. Did they do that? No, they’ve spent the last 3 years coming up with every trick in the book to reverse the decision, and focused their ire not on Farage, May and Cameron, but on Corbyn. They have only themselves to blame if this goes through today.

They could have engaged with moderate leavers to ensure a soft brexit.

Which moderate Leavers?

Yes, the population is full of them… but in politics generally, and in Parliament more specifically, all those who presented the argument for a moderate Brexit during the run up to the referendum flipped to Hard Brexit once the public vote was won.

Farage, May and Cameron, but on Corbyn. They have only themselves to blame if this goes through today.

Rubbish, ive emailed my local remain now leaver Tory MP, multiple times, made no difference.
Johnson
Farage
May
Cameron All equally complicit in this & they’ve been rightly criticised

Corbyn has a choice today, he can put actual pressure on his leave minded MPs not to help Johnson get a hard brexit & a resultant big majority at a GE. Or he can just give them a pass….

Corbyn has a choice today, he can put actual pressure on his leave minded MPs

And I’m sure he will be doing. Trouble is most of the labour rebels are long-standing centrist critics of Corbyn so I doubt he’ll get very far. Or are we still pretending that they’re all rabid lexiteers like Campbell?

It’s very interesting how the backstop became the frontstop and Boris is actually using the getting rid of the backstop ‘they said couldn’t be done’as a selling point. When in reality he’s just triggered it.
(I get it doesn’t affect the whole uk but it was an insurance policy so would have only been bought into play in the event of FTD Failure).

He’s pretty much tied us into another time critical 14 months of trade negotiation or no-deal, Same shit different side of the wall.

Corbyn has been ambiguous, inactive and complicit, that’s why people don’t like him. The others you mention have served this country badly but they’ve been upfront about their goals even if they’ve lied about the detail.

Corbyn has got himself into a position where Boris Johnson may well be our prime minister for the next 5 years with a landslide majority, that’s on Corbyn.

Brexit capitulators are truely awful people.

Corbyn has got himself into a position where Boris Johnson may well be our prime minister for the next 5 years with a landslide majority, that’s on Corbyn.

No. That will be on the people that choose to make that vote.

Jesus. Even remainers are attacking each other now. What the actual ****? Why make this tribal with such sweeping statements? Get a grip.

Brexit capitulators

Get a bloody grip man. This is not a war, it is a policy decision on trade and international working rights. The language of war and conflict only plays into the hands of the nutters at the extremes.

Get a bloody grip man. This is not a war, it is a policy decision on trade and international working rights. The language of war and conflict only plays into the hands of the nutters at the extremes.

Sums it up.

It has identified the anti-democratic fascism enthusiast amongst us. Which was interesting.

Hmm… again and again we were told that if our membership if the EU was “just about trade” then there would be no need to Leave… by people asking us to vote Leave in 2016.

No need for the war time language though. Leave that to the PM.

Most of the MPs need to be voted out in the next GE as simple as that.

I predict the two main parties will get hammer in the next GE which they deserve.

Both govt and opposition are so weak they look like silly.

Watching the debate (such that it is) live on German TV, no dubbing, no subtitiles, think about that. When has there ever been anything in German presented on British TV under the same conditions?

Oh look. Dominic Grieve has just stood up to speak. I wonder if he’s going to join his remain hero mate Ken Clarke in opposing Johnson’s deal? What’s that? They’re going to vote for it? The very people the lib dems have promised to support and who thought would be good candidates as interim PM to stop brexit? Politics is a weird world. The only lesson to be learned from this whole sorry saga is that you can never trust a tory, or their lib dem lapdogs.

^ Allo Allo. Pretty sure that was in French and German 🙂

What a car crash.
Our government is an international joke.

Even if we don’t leave the EU, the UK will never be taken seriously again, it’s not parliament, it’s a kangaroo court.

Ok anyone care to explain what the Letwin amendment means,doexBoris have to write the letter now?

Re: that Led By Donkeys video that kelvin put up.

We’ve got a Whatsapp group at work that has been running since the vote was announced. Someone totalled up all the people that declared their vote at the time and it came out as 27 Leave out of 40 (group is roughly 50-odd in total). Someone linked to that video and another round was done as to how people would vote knowing now what we do. The new count is 31 Remain out of 43 replies. That’s a strong swing, especially as a lot of us live in the Welsh Valleys that were strongly for Leave!

I despair.

Ok anyone care to explain what the Letwin amendment means,doexBoris have to write the letter now?

In ordinary times, yes. But nothing Is guaranteed in these times.

think it means blowjo doesn’t have the votes

Classic Cummings/Trumpism now. Throwing out deliberately conflicting messages about writing the letter and what that might mean.

Yeh but the law is the law.

They’re just blustering and spinning, it’s pathetic and embarrassing.

opposing Johnson’s deal?

capitulate
verb [ I ]
UK /kəˈpɪtʃ.ə.leɪt/ US /kəˈpɪtʃ.ə.leɪt/

to accept something or agree to do something unwillingly:

Get a bloody grip man.

Get a bloody dictionary man.

Today’s events… the Tory Party have come together, but many still don’t trust their leader. This is all sliding towards this Withdrawal Arrangement being entered into, but with the PMs feet held to the fire to make sure he sticks to it. Not good for the country in the long term, but better in the short term than leaving this month without any agreement at all. There are still paths that can be taken to get this “deal” voted on by the public, but it seems highly unlikely, doesn’t it? We’ll see. “Not yet” is soon to become “never”… as many probably hoped, as regards a referendum before we leave.

So MPs back a delay and Boris says not.

Ha ha love it.

Well done Labour – yet again “magic grandad’s useless brexit enablers” block another critical Government move.

He’s just so useless isn’t he Binners?

On a serious note of the Labour Brexiteers there were only 6 against the Letwin amendment.

Blustering and spinning the way truly desperate people do when they are in a corner.

These guys and their mates between them have millions of pounds resting on Brexit happening. They literally can’t afford for it not to happen.

The tory Party just consists of Johnson and Cummings.

The rest of the tories don’t have a clue what’s going on. They are either laughing or trying to figure out how to keep thier jobs.

Welcome to UK government 2019.

It’s a disgrace.

Looking at how the DUP have voted… they may be willing to try and block this Withdrawal Agreement, come what may. Which would have some logic to it, wouldn’t it? Very pro-Brexit… but not at any price. But even if they do decide to try and kill the Withdrawal Agreement… I don’t think there’s any realistic chance enough “Tories” Will join them. Who knows… 🤷🏻‍♂️

Also Ken Clarke backing the deal … Swindleson’s suggested PM caretaker.

Those of you obsessed with Swinson and the LibDems at this time come across as a bit screwy, you do know that, yes? They keep voting with Labour, and not the government.

think it means blowjo doesn’t have the votes

On the contrary looks as if he does based on division lists, amendment vote was lost by 16, 8 of those who voted for it back the deal so that wipes out the majority and there are a number of abstentions who say they will vote for the deal which takes him over the line.

Indeed. All the additional delay gives him is time to cement his support. Not sure why the amendment was getting cheered to the rafters outside by the crowds.

Boris will have his deal by the 31st, his election victory shortly afterwards.

I can’t wait until Scotland finally decides to get out of this shthole of a union.

Westminster is an embarrassment

Well done Labour – yet again “magic grandad’s useless brexit enablers” block another critical Government move.

In this case I think we can thank the DUP rather than Corbyn. If it wasn’t for them then Letwin would have been defeated and the deal voted through today.

The deal would have been voted through without the amendment to put it to a people’s Vote that Corbyn opposed.

Like I said, it’s difficult to tell what is due to Corbyn’s intentions and what is due to his incompetence.

Doesn’t the Ben law kick in though?

Yes but the intent is to have a further vote on Monday if that passes through the Houses of Parliament, he is entitled to withdraw the request under Section 1(4).

So by 11 pm tonight BJ has to write/send that letter if I am correct?

Let’s see.