All the Labour MPs who will vote for Johnson’s shitty deal tomorrow are Corbyn’s natural allies, his career-long, Bennite, anti-EU fellow travellers.

If he hadn’t inadvertently found himself as the accidental leader you can bet Jeremy the Brexiteer would be right there with them, voting it through.

Hence them all getting tipped the nod that it’s fine to do so.

Getting to do whatever the hell you like if you’re a friend of Grandads isn’t just restricted to being anti Semitic

I think Labour will do better in a general election if the deal goes through, it wont be a pure Brexit election so they will suffer less from their weakness.

He whipped for article 50. Why can’t he whip against a Tory Brexit?

Eh?

If the Labour Party can’t oppose this with any conviction, which it looks certain it won’t, then you have to ask yourself whether there’s any point there actually being a Labour party any more?

Forget the conviction, as long as they vote then that does the job.

You constantly embellish everything.

Labour will do well in an Election , people vote on lots of issues.

The idea of Corbyn being finished or a loser is bought about by people reading the polls they agree with.

On the ground he will do well.

My partner and I who enjoy a very middle class existence want to use our circles to push for Corbyn. Most don’t get him and want to shoot him or something shit. But when you talk policies they are keener.

Happy to redistribute our wealth here under a Labour government and it will likely affect us personally.

Labour will do well in an Election

Define ‘doing well’?

Winning a majority so that they can actually do something?

Or just a warm feeling of righteous justification, in (another) heroic failure, that they’re right about everything and therefore morally superior?

Got to say, as a life-long voter I strongly opposed the labour part when they basically said everyone who voted for them in the GE voted for Brexit. I reluctantly returned in support, partly because I believe in their domestic policies, and partly because they represent the only real opposition to the conservatives and a strong leave stance.

There does seem to be a lack of commitment to ensuring this deal doesn’t pass, which is especially significant when there is so little time for proper analysis and scrutiny on the details. They lost the leave voters a long time ago, and I think they’ll lose a lot of remain voters if the deal passes via rebel labour MPs.

Fabulous. No wonder the government aren’t publishing an economic impact assessment of Boris Johnson’s Brexit deal ahead of tomorrow’s vote.

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/The-economic-impact-of-Boris-Johnsons-Brexit-proposals.pdf

Anyone wondering what my own view is on this, I tend agree with John Lansman. I’m sure the usual suspects will be along in a minute to condemn him as a 6th form idealist.

Johnson's deal will be a wrecking ball through the lives & well-being of ordinary people across Britain. Labour MPs cannot and must not vote for it. If they do, the NEC will have no choice but to replace them with a new, socialist Labour candidate at the next election

— Jon Lansman (@jonlansman) October 18, 2019

Do you agree there’s a red Unicorn just around the corner?

I thought Lansman was against “parachuting in” candidates, and all for local constituency deciding the fate of sitting MPs? Glad he’s come around.

mefty

Member
I think Labour will do better in a general election if the deal goes through, it wont be a pure Brexit election so they will suffer less from their weakness.

polls say the opposite

Westminster voting intention
… if held after the deadline for Brexit has been extended beyond 31 Oct:

LAB: 25% (-3)
CON: 22% (-4)
LDEM: 21% (+1)
BREX: 20% (+3)
GRN: 5% (+1)

via @ComRes, 18 – 19 Sep
Chgs. w/ 06 Sep (same Q)

— Britain Elects (@britainelects) September 23, 2019

Westminster voting intention
… if held after the UK revokes Article 50 and remains in the EU after a period of extension beyond 31 Oct:

LAB: 26%
BREX: 22%
CON: 20%
LDEM: 20%
GRN: 6%

via @ComRes, 18 – 19 Sep

— Britain Elects (@britainelects) September 23, 2019

Westminster voting intention
… if held after the UK has left the EU without a deal on 31 Oct:

CON: 37%
LAB: 26%
LDEM: 18%
BREX: 6%
GRN: 6%

via @ComRes, 18 – 19 Sep

— Britain Elects (@britainelects) September 23, 2019

John Curtice on the BBC saying that this would give Johnson a boost at a GE

Ronnie Campbell is on Radio 4 now pointing out that he’s 100% leave, will still vote the deal tomorrow and that he’s consistently voted against every single piece of EU legislation, and pointed out who’s been alongside him every single time he has…

Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell

If Johnson can simultaneously sell his deal as “we have a transition period to reduce the immediate impact, but at the end of that we can have a clean break from Europe” and also as “this is delivering on the will of the people, but limiting the damage, as we move towards a new strong relationship with Europe” depending on the audience/voters/MPs he is addressing, then in the short term at least, it’s likely to result in him taking back control of parliament, and a further rise in support for his party.

Polls based on hypotheticals are pretty unreliable

John Curtice on the BBC saying that this would give Johnson a boost at a GE

Not necessarily contradictory, Corbyn will be much less exposed to losing votes to the LibDems

Regardless of how shit or otherwise this deal is (and its shit) this is a tactical win for Johnson.

If he gets the deal through then he has “Delivered Brexit” and he can call an election with the Brexit party neutralised, resulting in a Tory majority.

If he doesn’t get the deal through then he can label the opposition as traitors, saboteurs and ignoring the will of the people. Unlike last time it probably won’t be the ERG stopping Brexit as it looks like they are mostly onside. He can distance himself from the DUP, who probably will vote against it, which given he has already thrown them under the bus isn’t a stretch.

“I have no choice but to call an election. Vote for me and I’ll deliver Brexit”. Another probable Tory majority.

There are few ways to neutralise Johnson’s advantage here… if Labour were cunning, they’d be pushing to put this deal to the people, and let voters either be the block or the enablers. Perhaps they still will.

last minute DUP uturn

No chance the DUP change their mind. It destroys their entire reason for existence. It would be like the SNP voting against Scottish independence.

I may be underthinking this but:

– UK leaves the EU, however that happens, all EU Regs will cease to be law and so will be brought into UK law overnight as a oner – you can’t redraw 30 years of legislation instantly. This happens either on 1 November 2019 or 31 December 2020.
– the government of the day then sets to work putting in new legislation to repeal the stuff they don’t like and give powers to whatever policy objectives they want to pursue going forward.
– the Withdrawal Bill/Deal – whatever you want to call it – is for this transition period, until December 2020, to ease us through the more complicated stuff.

So, surely the government of the day gets on with what they want to do – what is in the deal is only transitional.

I just don’t get how you can have a “for the workers” vs a “disaster capitalist” deal. All these things can be subject to UK law once we have left, whenever that is.

(for the record I am an enthusiastic remainer – just thinking it through)

I also still think the Sinn Fein might turn up and take their seats – just to really get one up the DUP. They have been doing press calls this week !!

You can have a Withdrawal Agreement that promises not to undercut the EU on standards (workers, environmental, food safety, animal welfare, whatever) even after transition. To a certain extent you previous Withdrawl Agreement did just that… and Labour would like an Agreement that went even further. Not only does it protect us, it makes a subsequent trade deal easier, quicker and likely be more in-depth.

I just don’t get how you can have a “for the workers” vs a “disaster capitalist” deal. All these things can be subject to UK law once we have left, whenever that is.

. @OwenSmith_MP asks if the Secretary of State will provide Parliament with a yes/no vote on future trade agreements given their potential impact. @trussliz responds that this is not appropriate in the UK, as treaties are an executive prerogative. pic.twitter.com/9AL2YsO6Mx

— International Trade Committee (@CommonsIntTrade) October 16, 2019

Mays deal had regulatory alignment for workers rights and environmental standards written into the withdrawal agreement, which makes that a legal commitment.

Johnsons deal has taken that out of the (legally binding) withdrawal agreement and put it in the political declaration instead, so there is no legal comeback and they can diverge from EU standards on both whenever they like

I wonder why they did that? hmmmmmmm…….?

I’m far from an expert either but,

all EU Regs will cease to be law and so will be brought into UK law overnight as a oner

The problem with this to the best of my knowledge is you cannot simply do this unilaterally. Any arrangements we have via the EU will need to be renegotiated with the appropriate third parties.

Like, say you get a 15% discount at your local bike shop because you’re a Singletrack subscriber. You cannot then just cancel your membership, write “15% off!” on a Post-It and then expect the shop to honour it, the discount was negotiated with Singletrack not with you.

Now of course, it may be possible to arrange a similar discount with the shop yourself, you’re a regular customer so they might offer you something but perhaps not as good because you don’t have the clout of ST, let’s say 10% off, but you’d have to go and negotiate that with them rather than just assume it automatically still applies. Y’know, make some sort of deal.

This is the unicorn in the room that the “no deal” brigade either don’t realise or refuse to acknowledge. Go stand in your LBS shouting “you need me more than I need you” and see how far it gets you, they’ll laugh you out of the store.

Boris Johnson’s Brexit dream is to shred workers rights and social protections

I also still think the Sinn Fein might turn up and take their seats – just to really get one up the DUP. They have been doing press calls this week !!

The Irish are happy to sign this deal and I’m sure they consulted with Sinn Fein. Even if NI officialy remains in the UK customs zone the deal puts it under EU customs responsibility and under ECJ jurisdiction. what’s not to like for Sinn Fein? NI becomes more European and less controlled from Westminster than for hundreds of years. So not just to get one up on the DUP.

This is what happens when you go for broke and lose.

A lot of people are going to be broke, and not figuratively.

Shame, shame, shame on Labour MPs who run scared of racist constituents and enable this abomination.

At least they might feel a bit dirty, though. The Tories are almost climaxing right now, just reaching the vinegar strokes as they think about dismantling all those workers’ rights…..

Ironic, isn’t it?

The far right of the ‘Conservative and Unionist party’ have just made a bigger contribution to a United Irrlsnd than the men in balaclava’s managed in 30 years of bombings, shootings and punishment beatings

I also still think the Sinn Fein might turn up and take their seats

I read an interview with them a little while back on this very subject. And whilst a day can be a long time in politics, I have little doubt that this absolutely will not happen. Their reasoning for not taking their seats runs far, far deeper than anything as trivial as brexit.

Don’t know whether asking my leave army/raf brat friends whether all the dead squaddies were worth us just basically giving Northern Ireland back.

Or whether that would be going too far.

I get the feeling it might result in a bar fight.

Ah, here you go.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/06/sinn-fein-mp-british-parliament-irish-republicans-brexit

And I just found this, from a few weeks ago.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/sinn-fein-will-not-review-abstentionist-policy-as-pm-bids-to-suspend-parliament-38445178.html

“Without getting into the argument about our mandate and the platform we were elected on, this day of all days when the British Government decided to set aside parliamentary interests, decided to ride roughshod over the Parliament and force their own position, then the argument that Sinn Fein should be sitting in there, as impotent as the rest of the MPs, I think is a nonsense.

“If they (the Government) have that regard for their own political institutions what regard have they got for Irish interests – and our clear view is they have none.

“Irish interests will not be defended at Westminster, they will be defended by the Irish Government, by the European Union, by the Americans on Capitol Hill – those are the people who are defending Ireland’s interests, it’s not being found in Westminster.”

So Sinn Fein smell blood again.

This is going to end well.

Labour should definitely call for a referendum on this deal. This deal vs remain and that’s the end of it.

Hopefully if this deal doesn’t go through thats an option

Hels, I believe most EU law (directives) are transposed into member state law, in the Uk’s case Acts of Parliament and Regulations. Therefore EU ‘law’ is effectively UK legislation anyway.

Directives may be transcribed in to UK legislation. EU Regulations aren’t necasserily so…

Some EU law is by way of directive which requires Member States to introduce compliant legislation, but the vast majority is made by way of regulation and decisions which automatically apply in member states and it is those that will need to be brought into UK law.

dannyh

Shame, shame, shame on Labour MPs who run scared of racist constituents and enable this abomination.

ctk

Labour should definitely call for a referendum on this deal. This deal vs remain and that’s the end of it.

Hopefully if this deal doesn’t go through thats an option

Well, I’m hoping the same thing, the problem is apparentlythe traditional labour voters are “racist”, “misogynist”, “homophobes” (led by a racist) meaning we will need to rely on Tory’s.

Of course we might find out later that the bloke calling his wife “Luv” was just a term of endearment and he doesn’t hate ALL women or that Corbyn is really against the Zionist movement not actual Jews… and that REMAIN have been casting these terms around with abandon.

At some point in the distant future our children may sit with theirs (quite possibly in the ruins of a once proud nation) and they might find out that non of this EVER had ANYTHING to do with the EU…

Stevextc – hah! **** bang on there buddy. I like your brand of cynicism.

Gauke, Boles and now Sarah champion are now for the deal which gives fat boy a plus one majority

They can see the escape route… “a deal”… well, “their escape route”… we won’t have one if they let Johnson push on with this.