Surely anyone in favour of a second ref will want the deal to be as crap as possible, no?

From the polls I’ve seen, amongst leavers, no deal is way more popular than May’s deal (which I presume this is broadly similar to) so leavers are happier with the crappiest of ‘deals’. At least if the deal isn’t terrible then the vote will be between a good option and a not too terrible option. About as good as we can hope for

So apparently goods that enter NI that have no risk of entry into the ROI/ Single Market, will fall within UK customs regulations.

With the exception of Rangers strips and Union Jack flags, pretty much everything that enters NI is at risk of entering the ROI and Single Market.

This is laughably bad.

It’s May’s dog shit with some glitter sprinkled on it.

The nicotine-stained man-frog is screaming ‘betrayal’ already.

@stevextc I agree about conflating xenophobia with racism, but I equally dislike either driving government policy.

As for culture, I still don’t get your point. If you don’t like to live surrounded by people of “another culture”, you need to define what that culture is to explain your concerns and motives for others to decide if that is born of racism, xenophobia, or something else. Just waving around the word “culture” is meaningless… and doesn’t magically transform concerns to “not racist” or “not xenophobic” without looking at what is meant be a culture different to your own.

I don’t like it when my neighbours are _________ ?

From the polls I’ve seen, amongst leavers, no deal is way more popular than May’s deal …

Indeed, because reheating May’s deal is just like signing another treaty (surrender) that make UK worst off without a veto voice yet needs to comply with EU rules (I think all but may be wrong).

If PM BoJo thinks he can misled Leavers he will have a shock to his system …

I am going to wait for more details …

The nicotine-stained man-frog is screaming ‘betrayal’ already.

It is a betrayal is it not if the deal makes UK worst off?

If it is a betrayal then Tories is history as simple as that.

p/s: Oh ya … Either way I want to see at least one traditional or main UK political party (doesn’t matter which one) decimated in the next GE with NO Chance of revival and consign to history forever. I want to this happening in my lifetime coz I want to see history in the making.

^^^^^ thats not the real chewkw. it’s readable…

If you look back at the previous page you’ll see I noticed the pound move up 57 minutes ago and made some prredictions based on that, but the deal news broke 31 minutes ago. I smell a rat, some people knew about the news and went long pound short Euro and had half an hours warning – enough people to move the market a little before the news broke. Some people are making a fortune out of Brexit with what would be illegal insider trading if it were share trading.

It is a betrayal is it not if the deal makes UK worst off?

every single version of Brexit makes the UK worse off!

Some people are making a fortune out of Brexit with what would be illegal insider trading if it was share trading.

Absolutely Possible.
Market gamblers are gluing to the news for sometimes now trying to make a quick £££.

If PM BoJo thinks he can misled Leavers he will have a shock to his system …

Seriously? They’ve been doing this for years. The very fact that “no deal” is popular with anyone who isn’t Aaron Banks, Crispin Odey or Putin very ably demonstrates just how difficult it isn’t to mislead leavers.

every single version of Brexit makes the UK worse off!

I wouldn’t go that far as it is impossible to consider all possibilities.

But with re-heated May’s deal UK will be in for a rough ride.

Seriously? They’ve been doing this for years. The very fact that “no deal” is popular with anyone who isn’t Aaron Banks, Crispin Odey or Putin very ably demonstrates just how difficult it is to mislead leavers.

Because most leavers are just not that vocal to express their views (can’t be arsed) so they just let the politicians alone … most of the time they leave them alone because of the No hope situation of being sold out.

Now it is different … they ain’t getting their bone back and the dog is not letting it go. 😁

Sorry for engaging with the Troll, but if any deal that makes the UK worse off is a betrayal, and not leaving the EU is a betrayal, what is not a “betrayal”? As all outcomes other than keeping EU membership makes the UK worse off than keeping EU membership. And, secondly, who or what is being betrayed in any of these outcomes?

But with re-heated May’s deal UK will be in for a rough ride.

What’s Chewkw on today? Both readable and realistic about the consequences.

Bruno Waterfield of the Times was indicating deal done nearly two hours ago so way before your graph, Brussels is leaky

Ta, Mefty, not so cloak and dagger then, just some media are more on the ball than others. But why do you say Brussels is leaky? It might equally be Boris and Co. You’ll note I didn’t accuse either side in my post above.

… what is not a “betrayal” …

Logically?

Get out with No Deal first.

Try it out then see what happens.

Then decide on next cause of action.

Try it out then see what happens

is no way to run a country.

It’s probably okay if your passport and personal situation lets you leave the country and work elsewhere at the drop of a hat if it all goes tits up.

But anyway, how is “no deal” not a betrayal if any deal is a betrayal, based on any deal making us worse off, and who or what would any deal be a betrayal of?

Get out with No Deal first.

Try it out then see what happens.

Then decide on next cause of action.

I can see no risks to this approach whatsoever, seems perfectly sensible.

Where’s that sarcmark I was promised.

Try it out then see what happens.

Can be a good idea sometimes.
However not normally when working with a production system unless you have really run out of ideas and it is already so screwed it cant really get worse.

Because Bruno Waterfield is well plugged into the Brussels corridors as he is a Brussels correspondent, I have been following him for some time because he is consistently ahead of the game on EU movements. Tony Connelly is best plugged in for the Irish side and if I had to choose a UK correspondent it would be James Forsyth, but he isn’t as consistent as the other two.

So its all about numbers

Grieve not looking keen on deal but several ERG holdouts have said they will, DUP saying no

It all comes down to the Labour rebels & I think theyll scrape it for Johnson

surely “no deal” is a betrayal to all the people who were told and subsequently believed that this would be “the easiest deal in the history of easy deals”?

Roumors that Labour will whip for the amendment on ‘Super Saturday’ to include a second ref for the presumably now known deal Vs remain.

That would be amazeballs!

not so cloak and dagger then

If I had a couple of hundred Mil available to make a killing with, I would most certainly have a team of people with their ears to the ground watching everything – in the UK and in Brussels. People like that don’t wait to find stuff out “on the BBC”.

Tony Connelly is best plugged in for the Irish side and if I had to choose a UK correspondent it would be James Forsyth, but he isn’t as consistent as the other two.

James Forsyth just repeats whatever press release cummings/CCHQ tell him to

My local MP is a full fat ERG no deal Brexit headbanger.

He’s all over his facebook / twitter triumphantly claiming a “Great new brexit deal”, with Tory central office produced graphics of BoJo standing statesman like against a union jack flag.

So it seems like Bo jo has somehow got the Tory headbangers into line at least. The same MP, who recently was lauding the DUP Stalwarts is also now syaing their a roadblock to the Brexit dream.

They’re going under the bus.

Apparently they’re going to ask the EU not to back another extension – leaving parliament to choose between this deal & no deal…

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/17/corbyn-refuses-to-confirm-backing-for-second-referendum-on-johnsons-deal

Of course he won’t. If he did he wouldn’t be able to get his Red Unicorn Brexit.

So as I understand it on Saturday there will be a debate with a potential amendment added to the deal for a 2nd referendum which as off a couple of days ago there wasn’t a parliamentary majority for , then a vote on Boris’s deal which could be very close if the ERG vote with him and enough labour rebels do to . Is that about right ?

Of course he won’t. If he did he wouldn’t be able to get his Red Unicorn Brexit.

I still think this could move… and this week. Watch this space… a referendum followed by an election could well be coming… with Labour making it happen… and I still think this means us leaving May next year… but obviously will be voting against that myself, given the chance to do so.

Of course he won’t. If he did he wouldn’t be able to get his Red Unicorn Brexit.

Why would labour support a deal which is worse than the one they previously rejected?

Seems like a stitch up, on saturday they want the vote to be an either BoJo deal or No deal. THat doesnt seem rgith to me, and not the normal way the parliment works

Why would labour support a deal which is worse than the one they previously rejected?

So Labour won’t support a second referendum until they’ve had their chance at the unicorn?

There is no better deal. Corbyn knows it. Everyone knows it. It’s yet another way of avoiding putting it back to the people.

Why would labour support a deal which is worse than the one they previously rejected?

Your regular reminder that supporting a referendum on any particular deal is not the same as supporting that deal.

There is no better deal.

May’s deal was better. Yet everyone agreed that it was still not good enough and it was rightly rejected. So why should this one be voted through? Would you not prefer the choice between a better deal and remain in a new referendum?

Would you not prefer the choice between a better deal and remain in a new referendum?

When?

It might be time to bring this to a head. Especially if the alternative is the current deal getting passed in parliament without a referendum.

If it genuinely was a choice, now, between a referendum on this deal, or a referendum on a deal with closer alignment on customs and workers rights etc, then obviously the second is preferable. That’s not the case though, is it.

Would you not prefer the choice between a better deal and remain in a new referendum?

You mean a choice between a Unicorn deal and Remain? Sure, I would prefer that but guess what, it ain’t going to happen.

Or am I just thinking too negatively?

this round of negotiation has further proved that in order for the Good Friday Agreement to be honoured we need customs union across all of the UK. Theresa’s WA didn’t fly, Johnson’s agreement won’t either and a GE will deliver another stalemate. time for a people’s vote on the options

Can’t see this deal passing, Farage says it shit, but I fancy he would because he fancies an 8th (or possibly 9th?) Crack at becoming an MP. Not that he directly matters, but he’s a decent barometer of what the ERG think.

The DUP don’t like it, well they’re the DUP they don’t dislike anything, they jump straight to hate every time.

The SNP won’t vote for it.

Plaid & Greens won’t vote for it.

Labour won’t because the Centrists are remain and it’s the wrong kind of Brexit for the Socalists.

Which only leaves the Tories with their -42 majority… some of the ERG might vote for it, Lord only knows why, it’s meaningfully the same as the May deal on the bits they care about. The Party faithful might vote for it, you can bet they’ll whip for it.

Of course Corbyn is the bloody kingmaker again, I do wish he’d **** off for a bit, we could have this Brexit BS nailed in a box a fortnight if he’d just give up on this Red Unicorn Brexit idea, his Party doesn’t like it, the Country doesn’t like, Parliament doesn’t like it. the EU don’t know about it (well officially) yet. Still Momentum won’t let him go, they’d rather risk another 5 years under Boris, rather than 5 years under another Leader who’s not quite as Red as Corbyn, but that’s idealists for you.