The next step is actually getting a deal

“No deal is better than a bad deal” etc. Actively trying to rapidly get the deals we need will be seen as undoing Brexit to some, and just boring and distant to others. I just don’t think he’d get the thanks, in terms of actual votes, that many expect. Voters will leak back to Labour, based on non-Brexit issues, and also to whatever nationalist party the Brexit Party morphs into next. I suppose in some areas (SW) he’ll get some votes off the LibDems, but Johnson could be making himself more and more toxic to those voters the way he’s carrying out the role of PM.

Fois-gras eating surrender monkey.

That’s the sort of racism light that got Britain into this mess. Part of a low regard for “johnny foreigner” and in particular “krauts” (as used in recent leave.eu propaganda). There are some dodgy papers in Europe, Germany’s BILD makes amusing reading. But nowhere comes close to the xenophobia splashed across Britian’s red tops. A lot of it based on that unhealthy British obsession, WWII. So yeah, that quote up top sums up how too many Brits view their European neighbours. And then they want a deal… .

That’s the sort of racism light that got Britain into this mess.

It’s a misquote from that well-known British institution, The Simpsons.

But yeah, you’re probably not wrong.

Free to make our own laws.

Secretary of State confirms to Brexit Select Committee that previous commitments to level playing field provisions on workers’ rights will no longer apply but appeals to MPs to trust the Govt’s intentions in this area…

— Pat McFadden (@patmcfaddenmp) October 16, 2019

^ Oooh look

Workers rights sneaking away under the grand auspices of ‘THE DEAL’.

…closely followed by environmental standrds

I think it is safe to say everyone trusts the government intentions in that area.
Its just the perception of whether those intentions are good or bad for the workers will vary.

Every time someone mentions the war in relation to Brexit I just tell them that we’re in the EU to stop all of that happening again, meaning we will not have to slaughter our younger generations in bringing it to an end. I know that’s very simplistic but it seems to work. I’ve even managed to get my dad to change from a solid leaver into a remainer using that as part of my arguement. The rest was won by pointing out on a journey to his chemo appointment from Crickhowell to Cardiff everything on the way that was only made possible by the EU Development Fund. This included BPW, multiple industrial estates and even the actual road we were travelling on! He saw the light, others can too.

Interesting news on BBC . It looks like the the likelihood of a deal is slowly fading away and No Deal getting stronger.

Come on TJ, that’s a very lazy stereotype and you know it. Sure, the sort of working class constituencies who voted to leave which Kinnock et al represent have a problem with racism, and are probably 20-30 years behind the big cities in their enlightenment, due largely to either having very small and/or very segregated non-white communities. But is it not possible they voted to leave for reasons other than racism? Do you think Kinnock and Lisa Nandy etc would put their names to whatever it is their constituents are telling them if it was just driven by racism?

You can call it what you want… the people of Wales probably just don’t want mass immigration be that English, European or anywhere else. This is what they have been told will happen unless we leave the EU.

and are probably 20-30 years behind the big cities in their enlightenment

It’s an interesting thing you speak of big cities as enlightened. “Big Cities” are a different culture to somewhere like Abergavenny or Hebden Bridge. I was in London today, and I most certainly don’t want to live there, if I did I wouldn’t have moved out.

Quite why they think Brexit will stop that is a bit of a puzzle to me but branding a whole set of people racist because they don’t want to live in another culture is not productive nor accurate. My reasons for not wanting to live in a London Culture are nothing to do with the religious or ethnic mix, quite the opposite that’s one of the few positives for me, I just don’t like the whole busy City culture.

Then you wonder why these people turn to Brexit/Leave ???

Workers rights sneaking away under the grand auspices of ‘THE DEAL’.

Come on guys , this is global Britain now. You have to compete with a Bangladeshi whose village now gets flooded every year and really doesn’t care what shit pay or conditions he has to work under.

We are all in this together.

Then you wonder why these people turn to Brexit/Leave ???

Because they don’t like living in a city? Or they think leaving the EU will make cities slower and quieter? I just don’t get your point at all.

Slow handclap for the ERG

We believe the Government's proposed Withdrawal Agreement is contrary to section 55 of the Taxation (Cross-border Trade) Act 2018 https://t.co/oZ5Jrkn9PR

— Jo Maugham QC (@JolyonMaugham) October 16, 2019

That QC has Basque linen (google images for “linge Basque”) as his site backdrop, is that significant?

Interesting news on BBC . It looks like the the likelihood of a deal is slowly fading away and No Deal getting stronger.

FAKE NEWS! OBVIOUSLY NOT THE REAL CHEWKW!! NO MENTION OF PM BOJO

Even so it’s all a bit shit do I find myself wandering more often to my happy place with Katie Sunshine…

This is my happy place.

Warning, there’s cursing and Dumbojo being beheaded.

Top song as well.

That QC has Basque linen (google images for “linge Basque”) as his site backdrop, is that significant?

He doesn’t. it is the rather dubious warming stripe graphic developed at Reading

I think a lot of people are being a bit mean about the current Membership of Parliament. Whilst there is obviously an element of careerism in it, i’d like to think it’s not as significant as is being made out here.

Everyone is trying to make the best of a badly dealt hand, i think that has to be our starting point.

My MP – Jeremy Lefroy – is a superlative case in point – campaigned for Remain in what turned out to be a very Leave constituency. Has teetered precariously between ‘honouring’ the 52% and ‘betraying’ the 52% in almost equal measure, becoming one of the Mail’s targets at one point as a ‘traitor’. I think he might even have had his mugshot on the front page.

He’s actually decided to stand down because of all of this sh*t, so our Conservative candidate for the next one will be Jacob Cream-Cracker’s niece of all people.

Prior to ’97 it was a safe seat that returned Bill ‘F**king’ Cash to Parliament in perpetuity, but after a boundary change, the dash for Cash was to a safer seat in Stone.

In ’97 the seat was lost to Labour, the Conservative candidate had been one Cameron, D.

I never voted for Lefroy, but he is the exact opposite of what you all seem to think is a bog standard MP – he went into the House hoping to make a difference. He’s an advocate for support for African development via targeted aid, for example, which kind of makes you think. well why did you want to be the Conservative candidate? Seeing the Party he represented being no longer representative – let’s not forget a long history of a more compassionate conservatism than is currently in favour – he’s said goodbye – no flip-flopping, no tortuous leaps of logic, just a brief farewell.

Because nobody has a monopoly on what is right, we can only believe that what we think is right is so.

One thing i can be absolutely sure of is that Lefroy was never in it for himself.

Bear in mind that in Staffordshire, 96% of the population are White British.

No wonder, then, that they felt so threatened by the ‘swarm’ of immigrant ‘cockroaches’ blighting their homeland.

It was obviously a measured response to the crisis that engulfed them.

“… it is the rather dubious warming stripe graphic developed at Reading.”

@mefty

It so obviously isn’t. Is the infrequency of your involvement in any way related to the frequency of it being called out as bs?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50079385

Can’t work out if this is a deal, can be ratified by all concerned before Saturday and we leave on 31st or if it can’t be ratified by Saturday, does that mean another extension or…??

In the last 5 minutes on the BBC News website they proclaimed that BJ has agreed a deal with the EU, followed 30 seconds later with “the DUP say they can not support it”.

BJ might get sufficient support from Labour MPs that the DUP vote isn’t required.

I’m also reading on Twitter that the DUP have been offered a fortune for their co-operation …. so they may suddenly decide they can accept it after all ….

I think he’s throwing the DUP under the bus and hoping enough of his former Tory colleagues and anti-Corbyn labour MPs (assuming Corbyn whips against it) vote for it to get it through.

I guess it all hinges on whether the ERG are willing to throw the DUP under the bus too.

The currency markets think no deal isn’t going to happen and a customs union for all the UK is looking more likely even if Brexit ever happens:

https://www.onvista.de/devisen/Euro-Pfund-EUR-GBP

One thing that could make the deal pass despite the DUP's opposition would be if the EU said the choice was between this deal and no deal

— James Forsyth (@JGForsyth) October 17, 2019

So now he needs to calculate whether he needs to offer the DUP something or not. He won’t want to offer them anything if he doesn’t need to, but he’d kick himself for losing the deal because we didn’t offer them something when he could have. How big is his pot of money currently?

It’s also possible that this is all a bit of a gambit to prevent him from having to send the Extension letter.

I guess it all hinges on whether the ERG are willing to throw the DUP under the bus too.

They seem very happy to throw anyone under a bus except themselves.

I'm calling it The Crap Thursday Agreement

— The Irish Border (@BorderIrish) October 16, 2019

Roumors that Labour will whip for the amendment on ‘Super Saturday’ to include a second ref for the presumably now known deal Vs remain.

I can see it passing if thats the case, then it’ extension and 2nd ref time.

Time for parliament to do the obvious … accept the new Withdrawal Agreement, subject to a referendum. I still think this will result in us leaving in May 2020… but with the consent of the voters. Obviously, I hope a referendum will go the other way, but I doubt it will. Still a better result than either leaving with no deal, or leaving without consent for the way we are doing so.

It so obviously isn’t. Is the infrequency of your involvement in any way related to the frequency of it being called out as bs?

It isn’t the strip or dubious? It is and I think it is better to present data with a idea of scale which this doesn’t

No it is a function of having a life so didn’t look at the forum again for a few days by which time it is pretty pointless returning to an old post, anyway it was called out as bs by TJ which is probably one of the best sources of confirmation one can.

Seems like it will all boil down to how many labour mp’s rebel and how many of the ex tories get back on board.

It’s going to be close on Saturday.

Surely anyone in favour of a second ref will want the deal to be as crap as possible, no?

Surely anyone in favour of a second ref will want the deal to be as crap as possible, no?

Why?
Anyone in favour of remain might take that approach.
Anyone in favour of a second referendum should be hoping for the best possible leave choice to be put against remain.

Then you wonder why these people turn to Brexit/Leave ???

kelvin

I just don’t get your point at all.

Obviously not (and I mean that kindly).
Leave have managed to create a story that it’s the EU setting UK immigration.
Obviously some EU nationals do choose to come and live and work in the UK on a temporary or permanent basis but that wasn’t the way Leave presented it.

What many people see and experience was described by Taxi… so say someone from Abergavenny (David Davis’s constituency) goes to Cardiff and see’s ghetto’s specifically created as ghetto’s and the policy of creating them specifically placing and forcing immigrants into ghetto’s (which is UK policy nothing to do with the EU).

Quite honestly I see nothing wrong with someone not wanting to live as the only non Somali/Bangladeshi or Spanish/French or EVEN ENGLISH person in an estate ghetto. It’s not racist to want to live mainly with people of your own culture.

I’m I’ll admit unusual in that when I have lived in various places round the world I’ve actively tried to avoid being in a English ghetto or White Ghetto… (for example you can go to Paris and live in a dominantly English/American area round the British school … I know many that did .. I just chose not to) and I hardly need to mention the Costa del English …

Because they don’t like living in a city? Or they think leaving the EU will make cities slower and quieter?

No .. what I’m saying is LEAVE have conflated immigration with the EU and further conflated ghetto’s with immigration and then created a narrative that if we stay in the EU these brown people will come and invade where YOU live until YOU are the only Welsh racial representative left.

My whole point is that if these slightly xenophobic people wish to say “but I don’t want to live in the middle of a Somali (or whatever) estate” they get branded racist by REMAIN… and get greeted with open arms by LEAVE.

The truth is that the ghetto-isation is UK policy, nothing to do with the EU but one refuses to even address this “because they are racist” whilst the other promises “control of our borders”

I don’t think it is productive to call someone racist and refuse to discuss immigration because “discussing immigration is racist” when someone’s fear is a ghetto will be built next to them.

My personal opinion is we have loads of room for immigrants but we use the space VERY badly and create ghetto’s and ghetto’s are almost universally bad. I just don’t blame the EU.

My reference to the “city culture” is not wanting to live in a ghetto isn’t really any different to not wanting to live in a city or not wanting to live in a rural setting. Equally I quite honestly know people who are terrified by the prospect of not living in a city centre.

Well well I just checked BBC news and apparently a deal is done.

Let’s see if PM BoJo has sold Britain out but since the detail is not known I am just going to wait and see.

One wrong move from PM BoJo and Tories then they will be history …

Surely anyone in favour of a second ref will want the deal to be as crap as possible, no?

I would like the best deal possible (this Withdrawal Arrangement isn’t that) to be put up against Remain in a referendum. But the Brexitiers with any influence (be that MPs or their backers) will only allow a Withdrawal Agreement to be proposed by a “real Leaver”, so that isn’t going to happen, is it?

If we’re leaving, we need to do so with a Withdrawal Agreement… and we, ie the public, can only accept or reject what the politicians cook up, unfortunately. But we need to be given that chance, otherwise people who want us to Leave will be moaning about the manner of our leaving being unacceptable, just as much as those of us that think we shouldn’t leave at all.