EU Referendum – are you in or out?

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  • EU Referendum – are you in or out?
  • Edukator
    Member

    He did specify electric cars, Matt. Sunderland is where the Leaf battery is put together I believe and the car assembled, that plant has benefitted from huge subsidies while Britain has been in the EU:

    Company Report: Nissan UK’s £800 Million Worth of Corporate Welfare

    Premier Icon AD
    Subscriber

    Lying bastard – I’m sure he said this would be easy…
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49445607
    Who the hell votes for this shower?

    eskay
    Member

    I heard him say in an interview in the run up to him being voted in as PM that we just needed to ‘get stuff done’ for a brexit deal. Perhaps the stuff is not as easy as he thought.

    dannyh
    Member

    Your facts won’t counteract his “feelings” … but it’s so nice that people still try. Oh, and if Johnson thinks that when it comes to a post Brexit trade deal he can ignore the smaller nations in the EU… reality will bite him in the arse.

    It is kind of sweet that people still try, but the result will always be the same if anyone tries to construct a logical argument for the benefits of something that is:

    a) Illogical
    b) Of no benefit to anyone but a cynical and tiny clique.

    It was a bit half-arsed in any case, and got immediately and conclusively refuted with facts.

    Premier Icon oldnpastit
    Subscriber

    Who the hell votes for this shower?

    People who are desperate for someone to tell them they haven’t made a terrible mistake.

    Even if it’s not true.

    dovebiker
    Member

    I haven’t read the Nissan report, but you also have to balance this against the economic contribution that a higher-skill, more productive, higher-earning workforce brings, plus the local economy and supply-chain impacts. How much would the welfare and social impacts costs be for Sunderland without Nissan? I know for a fact that most Government Departments don’t cost this because it’s other departments responsibilities – it’s firmly in the ‘too difficult / too hard’ box. I used to sit in meeting with DTI/BIS Officials asking this question and they’d just ignore it because it wasn’t their responsibility.
    An alternative is the likes of all the big supermarkets and much of our retail, hospitality and social care sectors are simply subsidised by paying minimum wage, zero hours contracts supported by welfare / benefits? Where do you draw the line?

    thebees
    Member

    Land Rover owned by Tata.
    Nissan Leaf is Japanese owned.
    I’m talking about state sponsoring of our very own electric car industry not making
    batteries for another nations established industry.
    But yeah, carry on with your half-a**ed fact checking and mutual back slapping if it makes you feel better.

    Edukator
    Member

    I’m not against the government investment in Nissan, dovebiker, I was just demostrating that brexiter thebees was talking rubbish about the EU blocking government investment, see previous page, and directly above.

    dannyh
    Member

    I’m talking about state sponsoring of our very own electric car industry not making
    batteries for another nations established industry.

    British batteries for British cars eh? Naturally.

    Dang it. Why don’t Rolls Royce build complete aeroplanes too? Then we wouldn’t have to build our lovely engines just to have them put in a dirty forrin plane.

    We might be on to something here……

    Handily, if a no deal occurs, in the immediate term we are going to have to get a lot better at producing british goods for british people. Things like fruit, for example. This could be just the kickstart we need to rediscover our buccaneering spirit and stick it to the world.

    This, of course, is the real trick of the populists. People don’t like the fact that the world is too complicated and interconnected to be fully understandable by anyone. So along come the populists and tell everyone it IS simple. You just have to believe. Just drink the Kool Aid.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    I’m talking about state sponsoring of our very own electric car industry not making batteries for another nations established industry.

    Hey, @thebees, which company did you have in mind? Singaporean Dyson? Morgan have canned their EV, haven’t they? Who does that leave? And would these entirely British electric cars be exported, or would we just keep them to ourselves… like some Brexit Electric Trabant?

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    I’m not sure what thebees is saying – are the EU blocking state aid of ecar manufacturing or something ?

    Cox that’s bollox

    The European battery intiative is the EU (belatedly) getting on the bandwagon

    I believe Sweden is the favourite for the first joint battery gigaplant

    https://ec.europa.eu/growth/industry/policy/european-battery-alliance_en

    Anyway 27 days left bojo , where’s the plan ?

    He’s had 3 years so he’s obviously got it all worked out then….

    Premier Icon dudeofdoom
    Subscriber

    I’m not actually against

    British batteries for British cars

    But Bit of a problem when the rest of the world owns all the British iconic car brands.

    Rolls-Royce,Mini,Land Rover and Aston Martin gasp all owned by foreigners , bit late to be banging the patriotic drum.

    dannyh
    Member

    where’s the plan ?

    And that is the same question that has been being asked for three years. Problem is (and always has been) that to admit enough for people to be able to plan effectively is so toxic that it would be political suicide, even in these stupid times.

    Oh, but it is never too late to bang the patriotic drum for some people.

    Brexit is self-inflicted damage, always has been and always will be.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Of course the government has a plan… it just has to keep it secret, otherwise they’d be showing their rEU opponents what their hand is… etc. Wink wink. And businesses, universities, councils, hospitals, ports, farmers, and families need to just crack on and prepare… government has published all those “you may have to” bits of advice on their website… so there you go, in the absence of a published plan, just prepare for all eventualities and everything will work out just fine. Honest.

    dannyh
    Member

    ^^^^

    I suppose it is the international politics equivalent of the spiv…. there’s a watch in every box, you can trust me cor blimey.

    Hardly a good way to run a country, though.

    dovebiker
    Member

    I like the British batteries for British cars idea, particularly if we come up with a totally unique charging adaptor such them foreigners can’t come over and steal our leccy! Of course the problem with making stuff like batteries is that whilst the pound is taking a hammering on the change rate, all the materials will need to be imported and tariffs added to all exports…but of course that’s all part of the great plan…

    There may also be issues if the leccie to recharge is from those French EDF plants and distributed by Hong Kong owned networks, probably no chance of our China owned windfarms being tarrif free either…

    Premier Icon oldnpastit
    Subscriber

    We can make British batteries from British potatoes.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Everyone who said something along the lines of “no, I cannot point you to a plan for Northern Ireland in the event we vote to Leave, but it’s not an issue really, just vote Leave”… should be barred from public office of any kind, never mind allowed to be in the government.

    tjagain
    Member

    Johnson also stating if its no deal he is not going to pay the money owed. Really? That will do so much to help us getting any treaties with anyone won’t it. EU will certainly not do any sort of trade deal until its paid.

    Bye bye city of london financial centre.

    Premier Icon thepurist
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    Nah he said he’s not going to pay all of it, but the 39B was the amount due to cover funding from the march leave date, so 7 months of eu membership later we’ve already paid some of it and the balance owing on brexit day is reduced. Hence BoJo can claim he socks one to the EU by not paying the full 39B.

    It is staggering how stupid the cabinet is (or at least how stupid they think the public is). I still maintain that Labour are only still fielding Corbyn because they do not want to win an election at this point. The ones that are running Labour obviously want the tories to completely own the mess from start to finish.

    kerley
    Member

    Plus not sure he could actually choose not to pay it. Bit like ending your mobile phone contact early by just not paying it anymore and keeping the phone. People will be coming round to get the phone…

    tjagain
    Member

    Do you think anyone will do any deals with us especially the EU if we renege on legally binding obligations?

    Premier Icon Neb
    Subscriber

    I still maintain that Labour are only still fielding Corbyn because they do not want to win an election at this point. The ones that are running Labour obviously want the tories to completely own the mess from start to finish.

    I think the conservatives are going full no deal in the hope that someone steps in to stop them and give them an excuse. It’s a ridiculous situation to find ourselves in.

    cchris2lou
    Member

    Now Bj saying US will have to compromise to get trade deal with UK ….. Yeah right 😂😂

    Premier Icon doomanic
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    And Corbyn still wants to head the caretaker government and call a GE with a referendum to follow. Why not just go for the referendum first? I don’t trust him as far as I could throw the chip on Binners shoulder.

    tjagain
    Member

    going for the referendum first means a long caretaker government. going for a ge first means a short one

    cchris2lou
    Member

    He can’t be interim PM though.

    Premier Icon doomanic
    Subscriber

    Unless it’s written in stone that I will get a chance to vote in a Referendum for revoking A50 I’m not voting for him in a GE.

    tjagain
    Member

    Its been labour party policy for ages and made 100% clear a couple of weeks ago. Referendum with remain as an option.

    You problem now is the lib dems who refuse to play with labour

    scotroutes
    Member

    Unless it’s written in stone that I will get a chance to vote in a Referendum for revoking A50 I’m not voting for him in a GE.

    That’s been Labour Party policy for the past couple of weeks. That doesn’t mean that they will campaign for Remain, just that they would offer it as an option in a referendum.

    We’re crashing out*. End of.

    *Source: Slowest car-crash in history.

    Premier Icon doomanic
    Subscriber

    I guess you missed the bit where I said I don’t trust him?

    Have we discussed the power interconnectors – UK/Europe and UK/Ireland – which provide both import and export.
    Back in 2015 the imports accounted for c7% of UK’s power requirements with an objective of getting to c22%.
    Tariffs anyone?

    BruceWee
    Member

    A ‘Remain Option’ or an ‘Option for Remainers’?

    Genuine question. The last quote I read said ‘Options for remainers’. If there has been new wording since then I haven’t read it.

    And if someone does show me a quote where he says ‘remain option’ which one should I believe?

    Premier Icon dudeofdoom
    Subscriber

    I think the conservatives are going full no deal in the hope that someone steps in to stop them and give them an excuse. It’s a ridiculous situation to find ourselves in.

    Tbh it’s the only option they have left. Which is why they are playing it so hard.

    After the Brexit date they are able to commence talks with the eu without any time restraint/parliamentary oversight and they’ve done Brexit so all boxes ticked an none of those annoying tax avoidance directives to enforce.

    tjagain
    Member

    With Remain on the ballot paper

    . simple, direct and no quibbling. Its a slight shift in position. Its been that way for weeks.

    tjagain
    Member

    dude of doom – the problem with that is before we leave any deal is subject to qualified majority voting, after would need to be unanimous and of course after brexit and we go to the EU for a deal which we will need they will ask ” where is our 39 billion, what about the NI border adn what about the rights of EU citizens in the UK” – or in other words the same issues will exist and our bargaining position will be worse

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Its been that way for weeks.

    11 days.

    And very few people know… because it has in no way been communicated to the public by a leader who struggles to even spit the words out.

    after would need to be unanimous

    A key point. Trade deals are far harder to arrive at than the temporary retention of EU benefits in the withdrawal agreement. And the details of a trade deal as far reaching as we need with the EU will take years… yet we are throwing away the safety net they are offering to us to bridge that time. What on earth will happen in the meantime? I keep hearing intelligent people I trust now use the word “certainty” about a No Deal Brexit… utterly depressingly gaslighted group of nations that we are.

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