EU Referendum – are you in or out?

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  • EU Referendum – are you in or out?
  • Premier Icon zippykona
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    Mattyfez plus 1.

    chewkw
    Member

    Meanwhile back on planet earth, GE votes are legal, unlike brexit and May’s WD minus the backstop.

    Well, if there is No majority and No party gives way then you will definitely need a “confirmatory vote”, otherwise there will be “no” govt.

    We might even see a multi party agreement between labour, lib dem and green, if if it keeps the bloody tories out.

    Yes, that is a possibility but if that is still Not enough then what?

    A multi party government might be quite good for keeping the fascists at arms length.

    All depending on the outcome of the vote.

    Premier Icon cookeaa
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    As as instinctively right leaning voter I am coming to the same conclusion from the opposite direction. Very sad.

    Is it sad? Or is this actually the “new politics” Brexit allegedly triggered? People starting to question old (perhaps a bit entrenched?) main party habits? And actually start to vote for policies and candidates not party colours…

    Fine for the euros as they’re completely meaningless. How will you vote in the approaching general election though?

    As I said, I’m now more of a “floater” so by definition I can’t tell you today who I’ll be voting for in (anyone know?) N months time at a GE.
    Can you tell me what the respective parties will be campaigning on for the GE once they’ve finished Brexiting and have to come up with opinions on other topics again?

    chewkw
    Member

    And actually start to vote for policies and candidates not party colours…

    Problem with policies are the faces behind them. You can have the best policies in the world but if the politicians have no intention of implementing them, then those so called policies are merely hot air. In that case they should be taken to court? No?

    Can you tell me what the respective parties will be campaigning on for the GE once they’ve finished Brexiting and have to come up with opinions on other topics again?

    Nahh … it will be the same issue again. Some still want to remain arguing that they can change again to be in good terms with EU and want to join them again while others continue to Brexit.

    mattyfez
    Member

    Nahh … it will be the same issue again. Some still want to remain arguing that they can change again to be in good terms with EU and want to join them again while others continue to Brexit.

    I disagree, the flip flopping between red and blue for all my life isn’t really helpful or progressive.

    Let’s open up the field a bit, yes we’ll get a few farage types as MPs, but we’ll also get a lot more social -liberal MPs. On balance I think it’s worth upsetting the rinse/repeat of the labour and Conservative apple cart that we’ve been stuck in for decades.

    Premier Icon cookeaa
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    those so called policies are merely hot air.

    Thus was it ever, but my point stands if the last three years have taught us anything its to apply a little more critical thinking when we’re promised the earth perhaps?

    Nahh … it will be the same issue again.

    Anyone still banging on about Brexit in their GE campaign (either for or against) will not attract my vote then… Post Brexit voters should be looking for substance and evidence that parties and their members are actually thinking about the future.

    I’m not bothered about “backing a winner” only the candidate who I believe is closest to my own values… Or nobody meets expectations and I spoil my paper…

    Premier Icon kelvin
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    Post Brexit … do mean the day after we have left, or after the first 15 years during which it will still dominate the business of government as it patches up the agreements and working arrangements it needs with 80 plus countries, as well as cleaning up the domestic fallout?

    Premier Icon Speeder
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    I can’t help thinking that the LibDems would be doing a whole lot better out of this than even they are if they had a leader who wasn’t so successful at getting no-one to pay any attention to him.

    mattyfez
    Member

    I can’t help thinking that the LibDems would be doing a whole lot better out of this than even they are if they had a leader who wasn’t so successful at getting no-one to pay any attention to him.

    The problem the lib dems have is they are very sensible and almost boring.

    The media like to market car crash politics as it gets more views =advertising hits for them.

    I’d love to have a sensible and boring government.

    tjagain
    Member

    lib dems probloem is they have lost their USP of being truthful and safe. Once they lost this they have nothing.

    Thus speaks the self-proclaimed political geek.

    willard
    Member

    Sadly, I think you are right there TJ. Either of the two main parties can simply point to the LDs and say “Tuition Fees” and people will remember the shafting they got from that.

    Also sadly, that’s politics now. Just like people have said up there ^^^and echoed in every primary school playground in the world.

    Premier Icon binners
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    I’d love to have a sensible and boring government.

    Amen to that. Remember the good old days where all you had to get your petticoats ruffled about was their duck-houses and moat cleaning, and things just seemed to tick along. Seems like a halcyon golden-age in the dim and distant past now, doesn’t it? Replaced by chaos, ridiculous ideological posturing and rank incompetence across the board (see Chris Graylings latest billions-spanking cock-up-fest)

    I did my postal vote for the EU elections last night. The remainer tactical voting website said the Green Party was my best bet to keep the Brexit Party nutters out, so thats what I did.

    I’m 49 years old, have voted in every single election (GE, EU and local) of my adult life and its the first time I’ve voted anything other than Labour. I suspect I’ll be among millions abandoning the two main parties who are both no longer fit for purpose. In fact, its difficult to see what purpose either of them serve other than perpetuating their own closed shop/chuckle brothers ‘to me – to you’ routine

    Two cheeks of the same ‘Will of the People’ arse. A plague on both their houses

    Premier Icon cookeaa
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    the first 15 years during which it will still dominate the business of government as it patches up the agreements and working arrangements it needs with 80 plus countries, as well as cleaning up the domestic fallout?

    Same thing innit? The day after A50 is finally executed I’m more interested in the party that have a plan for the next decade… Right now they are all equally deficient IMO but we’re not quite in GE mode yet.

    Premier Icon zippykona
    Subscriber

    Post Brexit … do mean the day after we have left, or after the first 15 years during which it will still dominate the business of government as it patches up the agreements and working arrangements it needs with 80 plus countries, as well as cleaning up the domestic fallout?

    The day after, I will be hassling my Leave mp to know why the roads aren’t fixed and why the hospital  back log isn’t cleared.

    mattyfez
    Member

    lib dems probloem is they have lost their USP of being truthful and safe.

    That does seem to be the case, but what I don’t get is why the tuition fees let down stays in public conscious, but other bigger things don’t, like with the tories we have devastating welfare cuts, the Windrush scandal, police cuts, greyling wandering around in a daze hemorrhaging public money like it’s not important and couldn’t be put to better use elsewhere .. to name but a few…

    … But oh no… The tututions fees are far more scandalous… Apparently.

    retro83
    Member

    mattyfez
    That does seem to be the case, but what I don’t get is why the tuition fees let down stays in public conscious, but other bigger things don’t, like with the tories we have devastating welfare cuts, the Windrush scandal, police cuts, to name but a few…

    At least we got this gem out of it

    Instead of apologising, they should have just blamed the tories and denied/lied their way out of it like that teflon-coated **** Boris.

    scotroutes
    Member

    The tuition fees thing is just a convenient excuse for those that vote Labour but are full of guilt and remorse for doing so and so feel they need to justify it to themselves and others.

    BruceWee
    Member

    The problem with the Lib-Dems is that their raison-d’etre is to be in the government. Not to be the government but to be in the government. Any policy they claim to hold dear to their hearts is up for grabs in aid of their only true policy.

    If they want to be a juniour player in government they should take a look at what the DUP are doing. Basically, wander around the halls of Westminster with a can of petrol and a lighter screaming ‘I’ll do it, you just see if I won’t!!’ until you get your way.

    Amen to that. Remember the good old days where all you had to get your petticoats ruffled about was their duck-houses and moat cleaning, and things just seemed to tick along. Seems like a halcyon golden-age in the dim and distant past now, doesn’t it? Replaced by chaos, ridiculous ideological posturing and rank incompetence across the board (see Chris Graylings latest billions-spanking cock-up-fest)

    And now on top of the risk of hard brexit, we have the risk of Corbyn nationalising the energy grid without paying the shareholders the market value for the company and flouting international law.

    We either have people who don’t know how to appropriately privatise things and who damage our reputation internationally. Or people who don’t now how to nationalise appropriately and also like to damage our international reputation.

    Definitely voting lib dem.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    And now on top of the risk of hard brexit, we have the risk of Corbyn nationalising the energy grid without paying the shareholders the market value for the company and flouting international law.

    To be honest, I think that the Labour party are now like the Lib Dems of the old pre-coalition days. They can basically say what they like. They know their never going to be in a position to ever have to deliver it. See above re: tuition fees

    Team Jezza has looked at their (frankly unbelievable) total failure to make any impact at all on the most shambolic, incompetent government this country has ever seen, in the middle of an unprecedented national crisis, and thought ‘**** it!”

    Magic Grandad can basically promise to hand deliver a gold-plated unicorn to every household in the land, a week in Benidorm for everyone, and a kitten. He’s never going to get the keys to number ten, so it really doesn’t matter, does it? Its all academic

    scotroutes
    Member

    It must surely be time for yet another Labour Party commitment to abolish the House of Lords. Funny how they’ve never got around to it whilst actually in government.

    mrlebowski
    Member

    Lib Dem here – like last time & the time before that etc etc etc…..

    God loves a trier! 🤣

    Maybe those Labour peers got upset at that plan.

    Premier Icon Del
    Subscriber

    Which is basically what Vince Cable said they would do.
    Edit: this in response to Bruce wee’s comment re the dup.

    Premier Icon binners
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    As its all been so quiet for a while, you should generally fear the worst, but it looks like Jezza’s stitch up is go

    After face-to-face talks between Mr Corbyn and Ms May, Labour said it would not support the bill without a compromise agreement complete with safeguards to avoid it being unpicked by a future Tory leader. “We are not in the business of getting into a car when we don’t know where it’s going,” said one source.

    But senior Labour sources refused to rule out the party’s MPs being whipped to abstain in the crucial second reading vote, potentially saving the PM from defeat at the hands of Leave-backing Tory rebels and the DUP.

    Premier Icon zippykona
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    The Donkeys are back.

    Premier Icon kimbers
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    Labour Abstention was a danger last time but they didnt in the end, wuld be madness if they dead

    good work Donkeys!

    I see that Farages dodgy money harvesting scheme is working well he claimed 16000 donnations on day 1, records show 1200 website visits, so either he’s lying or hes doing his very best to shield hs donors from scutiny AGAIN!

    piha
    Member

    It’s great to see LBD’s back.

    Premier Icon dissonance
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    you should generally fear the worst, but it looks like Jezza’s stitch up is go

    It really doesnt.
    You have to be spectacularly stupid/frothing cultist to think that Labour would whip for abstaining considering that a)people would just disobey them anyway and b)then they would get the blame.
    They might have an unwhipped abstain but even that is unlikely.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Morning Comrade. Hows the glorious revolution coming along? Are the proletariat ready to throw off off their chains, take on their capitalist oppressor and embrace a bold socialist future*?

    * Via the medium of abstaining from crucial parliamentary votes

    kerley
    Member

    but it looks like Jezza’s stitch up is go

    In your head maybe and that is the only place it has ever been. You are as stubborn about it as this guy would be.

    .

    See what I did there with a Monty Python reference.

    Premier Icon dissonance
    Subscriber

    Morning Comrade.

    I am sure all that made sense in your head. I now realise your talk of 6th form politics is actually a compliment being something you want to eventually reach from the primary school playground level.
    Are you seriously mad enough to believe that they would go for a 3 line whip abstain? Please explain your reasoning given the recent(ish) whips and without resorting to childish insults.

    MSP
    Member

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/16/labour-brexit-remain-voters-european-elections

    Just for those few who still don’t get why labours non policy isn’t working.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Are you seriously mad enough to believe that they would go for a 3 line whip abstain?

    Lets just have a quick refresher as to what he’s three line whipped his MP’s to support so far shall we comrade?

    1. Triggering article 50
    2. Leaving the EEA and the customs union
    3. Leaving the single market

    No, you’re right. With that track record, theres no way he’d do anything to help facilitate Brexit, is there?

    My apologies

    Carry on…..

    kerley
    Member

    Just for those few who still don’t get why labours non policy isn’t working.

    Without any data on the effect of any different policy/approach to it it tells us nothing. The current approach is not working but then any other approaches may not work either.

    For example, I no longer support Labour but it has nothing to do with Brexit so don’t jump to conclusions.

    Premier Icon dissonance
    Subscriber

    Lets just have a quick refresher as to what he’s three line whipped his MP’s to support so far shall we comrade?

    Yes lets. Personally I like using up to date information unlike cult members like yourself.
    So lets have a look at the recent indicative votes shall we?
    For Customs union – 3 line
    For customs union membership – 3 line
    Labour brexit plan – 3 line
    Confirmation referendum – 3 line
    Common market 2 – support but not whipped.

    Oh and again Stop being a primary schoolkid with your “comrade” bollocks. Just because not everyone is as binary position as you doesnt mean they have to be in the opposite camp.

    Now carry on being a useful idiot for the hard right.

    Without any data on the effect of any different policy/approach to it it tells us nothing. The current approach is not working but then any other approaches may not work either.

    This is just silly bollocks, it would take months to carry out a study with that level of detail. Meanwhile labour would still be haemorrhaging support, so they need to change track now.

    You don’t need a methodologically and statistically rigourous poll if you know that only one in 8 brexiteers were working class labour. Look at the bloody defections. It’s blindingly clear that labour should be remain

    Premier Icon martinhutch
    Subscriber

    You have to admit that Farage is schooling the rest of them on both dog-whistle populist politics and obvious (in retrospect) stuff like this,

    I mean, that is clever, particularly given the impairments, physical, emotional and intellectual, that many of his target voters will carry.

    Premier Icon kimbers
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    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/16/labour-brexit-remain-voters-european-elections

    the stupid thing is that Labour couldve prevented this if theyd come off the fence sooner & be sitting pretty right now

    In the 2016 referendum, Labour supporters divided two to one in favour of remain. Today the ratio is three to one. This means the number of Labour remain defectors to remain parties is three times as large as Labour leave defectors to leave parties – and has continued to grow.

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