EU Referendum – are you in or out?

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  • EU Referendum – are you in or out?
  • Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    Without googling it wtf does Fiji produce that we want?

    ctk
    Member

    I wouldn’t have the Tories or UKIP in GEs.

    The referendum has been had , leave won (I voted remain) I just can’t get my head around people thinking it’s ok to not honour the ref result.

    Premier Icon slowoldman
    Subscriber

    I’m with Cougar. No 2nd ref, parliament should do it’s job, accept that Brexit would be a disaster and revoke Article 50. It wouldn’t be the first time a “manifesto pledge” has not been kept – or the last.

    The old folk/gammons who can remember this have felt disenfranchised,they voted to join a Common Market,that was it.

    Erm, I’m old enough to have voted to go in. I’ve never felt disenfranchised.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    The referendum has been had , leave won (I voted remain) I just can’t get my head around people thinking it’s ok to not honour the ref result.

    We have, been explained over and over again. Leave won, they have had near on 3 years to take the UK out of the EU, they have made a plan – no you don’t like the plan. Tough Shit. Sorry but that is how it is. This is the option to leave it’s take it or leave it.
    Another very democratic process is going on, it’s called parliament – they can’t decide if they want to take the deal but have voted to remove no deal as an option – it’s been removed by a democratic vote which means in your eyes it can never be taken as an option so it will never be an option until the end of time.

    So now after knowing exactly what the process would be and knowing it’s was a 2 year negotiation to do the first tiny part of leaving you don’t like the answer – well nobody does but that is where we are.

    What would you do next?

    Premier Icon slowoldman
    Subscriber

    The referendum has been had , leave won (I voted remain) I just can’t get my head around people thinking it’s ok to not honour the ref result.

    It’s only a problem because Cameron said he would honour the result. Otherwise a damn near 50/50 split would never have been considered remotely sensible grounds for such a massive change in policy.

    He shouldn’t have done it, he’s a very naughty boy.

    ctk
    Member

    So parliament voted to stop no deal and that has to be respected cos democracy.

    Leave won the ref but that doesn’t have to be respected, doesn’t compute Mike

    Nb I would respect both votes

    What would I do now- I liked the indicative votes idea to find a deal that would pass through parliament.With hindsight it could have been done before A50 but with hindsight this mess could have been stopped many ways.

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    The referendum has been had , leave won (I voted remain) I just can’t get my head around people thinking it’s ok to not honour the ref result.

    Three things:

    1) Spending three years (and vast sums of money) attempting to make brexit a reality is honouring the result, even if the ultimate conclusion is that it’s not possible to do so without massive self-harm in the timeframe we have.

    2) having another referendum doesn’t mean the previous one hasn’t been honoured. That’s how elections work, otherwise the Whigs would still be in government.

    3) Page two argument, it was $%^&ing advisory and there is no mandate to “honour” it in the first place.

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    Four things:

    (I voted remain)

    4) I’m not sure as I believe you.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    Leave won the ref but that doesn’t have to be respected, doesn’t compute Mike

    Sorry trying to use leave logic there…..

    Nb I would respect both votes

    A page back you wanted May’s deal vs no deal as an option… that isn’t respecting parliament.

    What would I do now- I liked the indicative votes idea to find a deal that would pass through parliament.With hindsight it could have been done before A50 but with hindsight this mess could have been stopped many ways.

    If that is the case you have to expect that remain could be the outcome

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    So parliament voted to stop no deal and that has to be respected cos democracy.

    Leave won the ref but that doesn’t have to be respected

    Parliament voted to stop no deal and that has to be respected cos representative democracy. Parliament makes our legislation, not the electorate.

    Leave won the ref but that doesn’t have to be respected because it was an advisory vote.

    Also, see my previous comment. It has been respected, way more that it deserved given the allegations of corruption surrounding it.

    ctk
    Member

    I don’t want May’s Deal vs No Deal, I am saying it makes as much sense democratically as Remain vs Mays deal. We voted to leave A50 has been enacted, we are leaving. Remain is no longer an option.

    ctk
    Member

    Article 50 Cougar?

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Nb I would respect both votes

    Things that have been voted against in the last three years:

    – keeping EU membership
    – being in the Customs Union
    – being in EEA
    – joining EFTA
    – staying in the Single Market
    – leaving the EU without a Withdrawal Agreement
    – leaving the EU with the Withdrawal agreement
    – being still in the EU after March
    – having another referendum

    Whatever happens, several of those will have to be, er, disrespected, by subsequent events, and, hopefully, votes.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    We voted to leave A50 has been enacted, we are leaving. Remain is no longer an option.

    See here is the tricky bit, there are no stone tablets, the plan was never really written down was it. A50 has an exit clause – did we ever say we wouldn’t do that?

    Why the desperation to harm the country?

    But to sum up, you don’t like May’s deal what are we going to do next to come up with a new deal, agree it with the EU get it through parliament, do all the other shit we need to do etc etc etc.

    Sorry but play time is over the grown ups are coming back.

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    Remain is no longer an option.

    How so?

    Article 50 Cougar?

    What about it?

    ctk
    Member

    Cougar I voted remain- get a grip.

    taxi25
    Member

    and there is no mandate to “honour” it in the first place.

    Apart from the 14.2 mil mandates.

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    The ref has hardly been ignored:
    biggest increase in civil servants since the war.
    £2bn wage bill just for them, £bns more spunked on prep, the NHS has become worlds biggest buyer of fridges (from Germany) to stockpile medicines in **** peace time!
    Nearly £1trillion moved out of the city (including Moggs own funds) that alone is taking 1% of the government’s annual tax take- way more than we spend on EU membership.
    Every other bit of parliamentary business put on hold for the last 3 years, with another 5-10 years of this to go, meanwhile the country continues to crumble under austerity.
    The brexiteers that sold us it have to a man & woman failed to come up with a plan, their negligence & dishonesty bordering on criminal.
    No one has a clue how to proceed, May’s deal is the only realistic option we have yet polls as the least popular in every group….

    It is the very definition of a shitshow and looking at the last three years you’d be **** insane to think it’s suddenly gonna get better as we head into the much trickier future arrangement talks…

    Common Sense left the country someyime in 2016, I can’t see it coming back anytime soon.

    I’m also very very tired of seeing comments of social media that blame Brexit being a shitshow on Barnier, Juncker, Remainders, May, Corbyn…. not one of them thinks to take a bit of responsibility for what they voted for.

    Respecting the result? I’m trying but it’s not easy.

    Premier Icon slowoldman
    Subscriber

    We voted to leave A50 has been enacted, we are leaving.

    Not necessarily. The mechanism exists to revoke A50.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    So what we can sum up from all of this is the only thing leave doesn’t want to talk about is what their plan is to get a majority onside to agree a leave plan.

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    Cougar I voted remain- get a grip.

    You don’t sound like you did. My grip is just fine, what caused you to change your mind?

    Apart from the 14.2 mil mandates.

    14.2m what now?

    ctk
    Member

    Cougar you’ve accused me of lying. You’re grip is not fine.

    With a magic wand – yes remain.

    Without the softest Brexit possible.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    With a magic wand – yes remain.

    Without the softest Brexit possible.

    Well that is easy, campaign for remain or a 2nd ref then vote remain in that.

    mattyfez
    Member

    shake that magic money tree….

    Shake it shake it shake it.

    Ohhoo.. Where did all that money come from? Not from offshore tax free bank accounts that’s for sure.

    It comes out of the tax payers pockets via reduced public spending. Austerity innit.?

    Nothing to see here. We’re all in this together. Apart from the really rich people who aren’t.

    taxi25
    Member

    @ctk
    This thread is impossible. The only view tolerated is one of hatred for brexit and those who voted for it, real or imagined. Any defence of the result or that the people who voted leave aren’t morons is shouted down by the same posters, posting the same bitter views over and over again. 🙁🙁🙁

    mattyfez
    Member

    Yet you are still here, lips a flapping.

    What are the benefits of brexit?

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    What are the benefits of brexit?

    Stop bullying the poor brexies

    mattyfez
    Member

    Sorry Mike. I’ll make every effort to stop bullying the poor and soon to be poorer brexiters that actually have to work for a living.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    We could do multiple choice
    Is it
    A)

    B)

    C)

    D)

    E)

    F)

    Best of the **** best

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    couple of extra ones they are classics



    I’m hoping somebody can remind me why this is all going not as predicted…..

    taxi25
    Member

    Yet you are still here, lips a flapping.

    What are the benefits of brexit?

    And it carries on same people with their veiled insults. I voted remain you **** prick, there are no benifits that I can see but we lost get the **** over it !!!!

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    I sure as hell won’t get over it.

    Premier Icon zippykona
    Subscriber

    I can see but we lost get the **** over it !!!

    If the planners decide to put a chemical waste plant next door to your house do you object or “just get over it”?

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    Cougar you’ve accused me of lying.

    Well, no, I said that I wasn’t convinced that I believe you.

    Now I’m accusing you of lying however, for claiming that I’ve said things I haven’t.

    This thread is impossible. The only view tolerated is one of hatred for brexit and those who voted for it, real or imagined.

    All views are tolerated. It’s just that some people disagree with other people. Do you want to stifle that? Why do you hate democracy?

    scratch
    Member

    I’ve been trying to think how this could pan out in the few years ahead, next GE is before May 2022, I’m expecting to go out on May’s crappy deal.

    It won’t please remain, we’ve been utterly ignored, and it’ll maybe please half of leave as they’ll see we’ve left, but I’d doubt it’ll go much deeper than a DM headline, a smile, and a carry on in thier own bubble

    So 75ish% of electorate unhappy, then what? I Cant see the major pledge at the next election, I did think it might be Labour getting rid of grandad and aiming to get back in to the EU, but the more I think about it who knows, the potential unknown is a bit bonkers.

    Weirdly, a year ago I sat next to grandad on the train from Paddington to Bristol, me or him weren’t sat on the floor, I’d just literally sat on the last seat availableand found myself next to him, he read a magazine on trains while a couple of people at least came up for selfies, I couldn’t really bring my self to say anything, a year on I would have asked what the F he was playing at (I know..but FFS…)

    mefty
    Member

    One of the reasons I’ve come round to the view that we can’t dismiss the views of brexit voters is the fact that many remainers barely disguise their condescension and ignorance of the people they are so quick to call gammons or idiots.

    Quite right, this is also the view I have come to so in the event of a second referendum I will change my vote to leave, the result needs to be respected.

    ctk
    Member

    Here’s me expecting an apology. But more mealy mouthed words.

    I wasn’t convinced that I believed you! Ffs

    scratch
    Member

    But Meft, thats just another silly protest vote? based on getting one up on someone else? Is that it?

    mefty
    Member

    All views are tolerated. It’s just that some people disagree with other people. Do you want to stifle that? Why do you hate democracy?

    Yet you repeat the same arguments again and again and again and again and again …., you never have anything new to say, it is just the same old bleating, the flaws in which have been pointed out. But do you recognise those arguments, no of course not, you just go back to saying the same thing again and again, ironically that is what you accuse the Brexiters of.

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