And another filthy rich brexiter runs away rather than live with the mess he wanted.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sir-jim-ratcliffe-the-uks-richest-man-quits-country-to-save-billions-35x6jphxn

Utter vile scumbag. He couldn’t spend what he has in a thousand lifetimes, but still wants to keep more instead of paying his dues to a societal structure that he has benefited most from.

If isn’t helping the filthy rich just who the **** is it helping?

I actually think these morons believed their bullshit, they actually though the UK was in the driving seat and would win all these fabulous deals and would become nirvana. But now reality is biting, they are not man enough to stand up and say “sorry we were wrong” and instead are just running away, leaving the masses who don’t have the option to move their wealth to tax havens, to suffer the consequences.

And again it just goes to prove, in most cases wealth and sucsess is based on opportunity and luck, and not on intelligence or any other fantasies that the those at the top tell us took them there.

I’d include questionable ethics and an absence of moral fibre with opportunity and luck.

It was always been said that irrespective of the outcome the rich are in a position to insulate themselves from it.

Post regulatory and legislative bonfire they will sit at arm’s length and reap the benefits to the detriment of those left behind.

The people who were always going to be effected by the whole process are the most vulnerable in our society but the ‘haves’ prayed on their fears for their own gain.

Capitalism won’t look so bad after a few decades of slavery.

If isn’t helping the filthy rich just who the **** is it helping?

It is helping them. But, that’s because they can shift stuff around to take advantage of the “changes” ahead. See also those politicans pushing for a no deal Brexit, while setting up in rEU countries and encouraging their investors to do likewise (JRM & Redwood). See also those politicans with a foot in American business interests pushing for us to drop standards for them (Fox). See also, those politicans with interests in American companies looking for a drop in “protectionist” tariffs that keep Europe’s ability to feed itself (Davies). See also those who are also citizens of Belize… they all have somewhere else to be when they’re counting the money made from the “changes” ahead for the UK public (Banks, Wigmore etc).

Brexit is not a far right takeover, although that is the most likely end product. First and foremost it is a heist.

The ERG is not a faction within the Tories (as even some of the dimwits like Leadsom and Fox are starting to realise). They are a disaster capitalist sleeper cell. They are not wedded to a right wing ideology for any other reason than personal gain. They are a cancer that should have been cut out long ago.

Next on the continuum are the likes of Leadsom, Fox et al. These are complacent idiots who are wedded to a right wing ideology as they think the nation needs its resolve stiffening and some jolly hard work is all we need to succeed. They are stupid and have been played by the ERG.

And finally, we have the gammons in the street. They think we are getting National Socialism. We may well, but they’ll be nothing but expendable cannon fodder as they always are.

Ho ho it’s the Sun

But key documents quietly slipped out by the EU chiefs have debunked these hysterical predictions as the nonsense they always were.

They show scheduled flights and normal road traffic should be uninterrupted even if this country leaves without an agreement, as long as the UK returns the favour.

So in contrast to Remoaner propaganda, a No Deal Brexit would actually be far smoother than the doom-merchants would have us believe.

And Brexiteers who argued EU chiefs would ultimately act in their own self-interests by minimising disruption are proved right.

These crucial preparations have only been taken seriously in Brussels because the prospect of a No Deal has become increasingly realistic.

So the idea of taking No Deal off the table, as many MPs are demanding, would be madness.

Everything’s fine we don’t need to agree or plan just return the favour.

Assume that’s the EUs no deal offer from a while ago, saying they are prepared to offer some continuity to protect their concerns which has the bonus of making our lives easier. A bit like saying “if you are foolish enough to jump off a cliff we’ll grab you and share our parachute, but it’s up to us when we let go”

Surely no border checks with EU means no border checks with the rest of the world?
We must satisfy the rules of the WTO.

Everything’s fine we don’t need to agree or plan just return the favour.

I can see it working out exactly like that. The impact of no deal is largely what the UK makes of it.

The impact of no deal is largely what the UK makes of it.

Anything that crosses our borders (goods, services, knowledge, people, data) relies on an agreement between us and wherever it goes. No deal means there’s very little continuity in our arrangements with the EU or any of the nations we have agreement with via the EU. All we can do is make an offer/request/plea regarding a way to continue – the rest of the world can choose how to respond.  We’ve already seen how some nations are setting out their position on what they’ll be wanting from us in return. I can’t see that this qualifies for ‘what the UK makes of it’ – more like how far we’ll bend over.

I can’t see that this qualifies for ‘what the UK makes of it’ – more like how far we’ll bend over.

We’ll see.

We’ll see

Hopefully we won’t have to! 😉

Government ministers have already managed to derail the UK:Japan trade deal… FFS.

SENSATIONALIZED HEADLINE

Porsche in price fixing horror….but only if your buying in the UK

Price fixing or just being honest? Prices will go up if we go out badly expect the £ to tank and 10% increase seem like a bargain. If we have no deal then the tariff kicks in. You could call it a simple attempt to drum up sales but this will be on existing orders – that’s right just because you ordered for a price don’t expect to pay that in April!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.autoexpress.co.uk/porsche/105997/porsche-buyers-to-pay-10-more-in-event-of-no-deal-brexit%3famp

Yep sounds perfectly fair – you need to commit to paying the actual costs before they build and ship it. They would much rather pull a RHD car from the line right now than have a glut of them to sell in a UK downturn.

At work we have been asked to ship stuff 2 months early to get it out of the UK before the end of March, I’m sure that is not uncommon at the moment.

SENSATIONALIZED HEADLINE

Porsche in price fixing horror….but only if your buying in the UK

That’s one going to affect the poor.

That’s one going to affect the poor.

Had to cancel my 911, not happy here at Taxi mansion

All the stuff about Labour losing power if they back remain – they aren’t exactly in control under their current leader/stance are they?

New party being set up, do you reckon?

Looks like both parties are about to go into meltdown. Rumours are that a number of labour MP’s are about to resign – jumping before they’re pushed no doubt, given the not-at-all-Stalinist approach of ‘The Leadership (Jeremy Corbyn demanding loyalty pledges surely has to set a new benchmark in irony?)

Radio 4 was saying there’s a sort of right wing momentum equivalent of UKIP entryists that are trying to get the few non-mental Tory MPs deselected.

Who knows what’ll happen? At the 59th minute of the eleventh hour, it’d be nice to have a political party that wasn’t under the control of complete brexiteer maniacs. I live in hope…

So Steve Barclay who has achieved the impossible & made raab or Davis seem not the most useless Brexit secretarys is in Brussels to find a backstop solution- We’re saved !

As for splitters, won’t end well for any of the parties or the splittees!

Labour had been catching up in the latest polls too, I suspect thanks to the ergs latest antics

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 37% (-4)
LAB: 37% (+3)
LDEM: 8% (-)
UKIP: 7% (-)

via @OpiniumResearch, 13 – 15 Feb
Chgs. w/ 01 Feb

— Britain Elects (@britainelects) February 16, 2019

“Do you approve or disapprove of the way in which the Government is handling the Brexit negotiations?”

Approve: 20%
Disapprove: 80%

Record low for % approval.

via @ORB_Int, 01 – 03 Febhttps://t.co/UZ1QTx6Ui5

— Britain Elects (@britainelects) February 12, 2019

Ahead of @theresa_may's #Brexit statement to @HouseofCommons today, latest #KantarPublic UK voting intention data shows: if a new referendum was held on the UK's membership of #EU 35% of public say that they would vote Leave, 43% say they would vote Remain https://t.co/WUwRmhY3ul pic.twitter.com/EPHiVQfYMn

— Kantar Public (@KantarPublic) February 12, 2019

Surely no border checks with EU means no border checks with the rest of the world?

There is a difference between a border check and a customs declaration. Currently most (not all) EU goods don’t’ require a customs declaration but I think (and I may be wrong) that they are subject to the same sort of border checks as non-EU goods. This is because the biggest risk to UK duty revenues are through intra-EU smuggling of booze and fags.

So that article in the Sun isn’t that daft. If the UK waves through EU goods with minimum customs declarations at the border and the EU does the same with goods coming from the UK, it will minimise any disruption.

I have a feeling that in the short term at least this might happen, as there is no practical alternative.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cszOp1BPp8M

I guess this is relevant to both threads.

**** idiots, quit because of the handling of brexit I understand, but bringing up the bullshit antisemitism charges just shows their real motivation is not about doing the right thing for the electorate.

Corbyn needs removing, but for the right reasons, not some blatantly false charges trumped up by the tories and the right wing press, the quiters are just supporting the erg and their cronies by the way they are handling this.

Is it relevant to this thread? Doubt it. And aren’t some of the “charges” from long standing Labour people under attack? I think I should avoid whatever other thread you refer to.

Is it relevant to this thread?

You think that labour mp’s quitting with a major issue stated as labours brexit stance, isn’t relevant? You will have to explain that to me.

Hopefully some sensible tories will be tempted to up sticks as well.
I know passionate remainers who voted Tory as they hate Corbyn more than May.
Why the stupid **** didn’t vote lib I don’t know.

You will have to explain that to me.

By relevance I was talking about bringing lines such as … “bullshit antisemitism” … into this thread. It’s quite a suspicious and specious thing to claim in any circumstances, never mind in a thread about how we organise how European countries should cooperate.

Why the stupid **** didn’t vote lib I don’t know.

Because it’s pretty pointless to vote for a party whose sole principle is ‘We want to sit at the table.’

Vote Green. **** it, vote UKIP. But vote for something.

you seem quite happy to ignore the fact that a large majority of Labour voters voted to remain. Why is that?

If you use certain polls yes eg the YouGov one. Note those arent hard data.
However, you can equally say majority of Labour constiutencies voted leave. Again its worth noting there is some fudging and guesswork about the overlaps.
The problem is the split between the urban areas (mostly pro remain but heavily clustered) vs the traditional heartlands (pro leave). Please one and you piss off the other.

Mildly interesting take on Brexit in the Guardian today based on the need for a complete reality check for the UK brought about as a result of Brexit.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/18/britain-brexit

good read mariner

Im not convinced that a no deal brexit dumping on the poorest is every going to be worth it though

However, you can equally say majority of Labour constiutencies voted leave.

Psst… “Labour constituencies” aren’t just made up of Labour voters. They are not one party seats. Should Labour policy be led by the UKIP & Tory voters in Northern Labour heartlands? Seats where the BNP were doing pretty well not that long ago it should be noted.

Psst… “Labour constituencies” aren’t just made up of Labour voters.

Ah I know that. I also know what the average Labour vote is in those constituencies vs those who voted out. Guess which figure is bigger?
Also guess if Labour save the tories from their own mess will the tories say thanks or run a campaign blaming Labour for not leaving in those regions.

Dissonance dissonance again.

Labour should not try and stop the Tory policy agenda, for fear of being blamed for stopping the Tories/UKIP getting their way.

O… kay…

Struggling to come to terms with ‘winning’ a war and then realising that one of the more immediate things that would come after was a bumping down in the world pecking order has been happening since 1945. Maybe Brexit will finally make that sink in, but the unforeseen possible consequences worry me a lot.

There were plenty of people in 1920s Europe who would have laughed away any suggestion that Armageddon was 10-15 years away.