- EU Referendum – are you in or out?
Giving the far right an inch lets them take a foot. They have to be faced down. Hopefully within a parliamentary setting.
Having said that, they look quite fierce, but they’ve always been the same: a handful of donkey jacketed hard lads being egged on by a rump of micro-cocked, ruddy red old tossers. When push comes to shove they usually get their bottoms smacked and put back in their box.Posted 5 days agobinnersSubscriber
You cannot reason with these people. They are zealots who simply refuse to compromise, and consider others pragmatism as weakness to be exploited.
That’s why we are where we are. It was the far right headbangers of the Tory party who wrote Mays totally uncompromising red lines for her, then demanded more.
They represent a very noisy, but tiny minority yet are repeatedly getting their own way, and driving us towards catastrophe, because spineless cowards refuse to face up to their ‘Enemies of the People’ nationalistic bullying.
It’s going to have to be done at some point, because if we don’t then god only knows where they’re dragging us!
I certainly don’t want to live in the type of society that Rees Mogg, IDS, Peter Bone, Bill Cash, Liam Fox and John Redwood would like to see.
And as for far right protestors taking to the streets? As someone wryly commented the other day:
“Where are they going to march too? The first open pub?”Posted 5 days agocrazy-legsSubscriber
Delivering the policies of the Far Right, to stop “their people” gaining power, has got us to where we are today. And it will keep sliding that way… it will never stop… unless you take a stand.
This – and the first thing you do is stand up and say that the referendum was (to all intents and purposes) illegally “won” and it was enabled by Leave.EU and Vote Leave combining forces, breaking electoral rules and there was the small matter of various Russian-based psyops and Cambridge Analytica.
So declare it all null and void, prosecute the lying shits like Johnson and Farage for treason and there could probably do with being a few heads at the BBC that roll too for enabling it all with their biased coverage and wall-to-wall Farage and JRM interviews.
And then spend quite a long time apologising to the EU as well.Posted 5 days agodudeofdoomSubscriber
I’m more than happy to listen to reasoned arguments why Brexit will be good for the country, it is just that in the past (nearly 1500) pages, I cannot recall a single compelling reason why Brexit is a good idea.
Yep that what makes it so bizarre that our leaders are full steam ahead on this, we couldn’t have boaty mcBoatface but we can have economic oblivion.Posted 5 days agoEdukatorMember
I was reading a German paper the other day, SDZ, and they were weighing the negatives of the division of Europe and the positives of those troublesome Brits **** off. There’s more and more a feeling that apart from potential trouble in Ireland BREXIT isn’t such a bad thing.Posted 4 days ago
Who’s talking about giving an inch to the far right? Certainly not me. The far right need political chaos in which to thrive, which is the very thing I’m suggesting the leaderships of both parties are trying to avoid. If labour and the tories split, we’ll be in an Italy situation with coalition govt held to ransom by minority interests. Much as I like her I’m afraid that’s not going to be Caroline Lucas.Posted 4 days ago
Who’s talking about giving an inch to the far right?
Both main parties are led by people claiming that we MUST end FoM. Not just insisting we leave the EU, but also ruling out any new close relationship with our neighbours that allows FoM to continue.
As for political chaos… if your think carrying out a Hard Brexit avoids this… well… let’s be honest… I don’t think for a second you do believe this at all.Posted 4 days ago
Well that was always likely, not in a mood to listen to anyone or take a consensus view.Posted 4 days agooldnpastitMember
There’s more and more a feeling that apart from potential trouble in Ireland BREXIT isn’t such a bad thing.
I recall reading a blog by that Andrew Lilico brexit dude, where he listed the upsides of Brexit.
Most looked like total nonsense, but one of them was that a more united Europe would have higher growth, and since Europe is our main trading partner, this would result in more growth for the UK as a result.
Yes, really.Posted 4 days ago
if your think carrying out a Hard Brexit avoids this
You really should read my past posts on this thread if you seriously believe I want a hard Brexit. I’m about as remain as you can get. However, despite this I have come to think recently that hanging on to faint hopes of Brexit being reversed is, to use a topical phrase, wishing for unicorns.
The only hope now of avoiding the chaos of a no deal or hard Brexit is for a compromise deal between the tories and labour. Labour have made a move toward that yet now you’re all crying betrayal. Let me repeat again, Brexit is happening. The only choice is which type.Posted 4 days ago
“Which type” has been broadly decided by both party leaders when they rejected FoM. May has had to come to terms with what that means, where as Corbyn is still blowing bubbles of deceit about it. We’re heading for a hard Brexit… but both parties will accept the WA in March to ensure we get a transition period, and a softer landing to our Hard Brexit reality.
I’m aware you don’t want a Hard Brexit… you need to drop the denial and accept that is what Corbyn is enabling. And then, once we’re free of Single Market rules, we move closer to the Britain the international Hard Right are pushing for. And they won’t stop there. Wait ’till the UK/USA trade deal happens.Posted 4 days ago
The only hope now of avoiding the chaos of a no deal or hard Brexit is for a compromise deal between the tories and labour. Labour have made a move toward that yet now you’re all crying betrayal. Let me repeat again, Brexit is happening. The only choice is which type.
We have 7 weeks, there are 3 options open to do something on the 29th that the UK can do on it’s own
1) Leave No Deal
2) Take the Deal
3) Stop Brexit
Option 4 applies if the EU want to play which is to extend – something I understand they are not keen on
There is no time to negotiate anything different unless it’s very simple and basically what we have now for more cash and less say.
So no matter what cross party talking happens unless it delivers a Majority for May’s deal then the options left are no deal or cancel it.
Want to actually call odds on those?Posted 4 days ago
you need to drop the denial and accept that is what Corbyn is enabling
Now I’m really confused. Labour (not Corbyn on his own) are offering a deal which is by definition a soft Brexit. Or at least as soft as is possible. If by soft Brexit you mean no Brexit then no I don’t think that’s possible.
I suppose there’s a very small chance that faced with a no deal, May will unilaterally revoke A50 but that will almost certainly result in a collapse of the govt and Corbyn as PM so I doubt that will happen.Posted 4 days ago
Or at least as soft as is possible
They are ruling out FoM.
Ruling out EEA.
Ruling out operating in the Single Market.
Ruling out staying in the Customs Union.
This is a Hard Brexit.
Corbyn is still asking now for what May was seeking before she hit reality… trading on similar terms as we do now, but stopping the movement of workers. Not going to happen.
There were ways to Leave that were “soft”, but it’s too late for that now… thanks to May’s FoM redline, which Corbyn has supported since the Referendum. The options now are…
1) Hard Brexit with no transitionPosted 4 days ago
2) Hard Brexit with transition
3) No Brexit
I suppose there’s a very small chance that faced with a no deal, May will unilaterally revoke A50 but that will almost certainly result in a collapse of the govt and Corbyn as PM so I doubt that will happen.
She is gone if no deal happens along with her government, this also relies on her being in charge on the 28th. Another round of votes, another deadlock and another confidence motion? Want to be the remain tory that enabled hard brexit?Posted 4 days agoransosSubscriber
Well that’s as soft as you’re going to get I’m afraid. The alternative is no deal. And no deal is much easier to achieve than the alternative, as all they have to do is nothing.
Quite. We can argue over semantics but Labour’s proposal considerably softens May”s deal.Posted 4 days ago
Well that’s as soft as you’re going to get I’m afraid.
Yes, because of the FoM redline that both May and Corbyn have stuck to for the last three years. If we leave, we get Hard Brexit, because of the choices made by the political leaders of our two main parties. Hard Brexit is not “the will of the people”, it is the choice of politicans. Primarily two politicans that are happy to damage these countries for their own narrow political ambitions (in my opinion).Posted 4 days ago
Plenty of surveys showing that if you explicitly link FoM to the Single Market… then respondents are heavily in favour of keeping FoM to stay in Single Market. Ending FoM is a choice made by our party leaders. Yes, Leave would not have won without the votes of people wanting to end FoM, but most people would be happy to keep FoM to stay in the Single Market.
Ignoring all those that voted Leave to be like Norway, or like Switzerland, or for our own “bespoke” arrangement keeping us operating in the Single Market (or exact same benefits, or keeping frictionless trade and movement), is a mistake that politicans make all the time (after, but strangely not before the referendum). Don’t be like them. The only decision made to end FoM was made by politicans… the people didn’t make that call.Posted 4 days agobinnersSubscriber
Boris Johnson has just been interviewed on Radio 4
Its fine. Don’t worry. Everything is going to be ok in the event of a no deal/crashing out Brexit, because….. erm….unicorns
In other news Deputy assistant commissioner Richard Martin has said that after Brexit policing would be where we were in the 1950’s. I’m presuming this is good news to most brexiteers as it’ll mean bobbies back on the beat, able to give young rapscallions a clip round the earPosted 4 days agoRusty SpannerSubscriber
While we’re laughing at that lot… what about the people we voted for…
I am told @Keir_Starmer is not the happiest member of the frontbench. According to multiple sources, he had agreed that the final part of Corbyn’s letter to May would say “if you do not accept this [Brexit offer] there will be a People’s Vote”. One source…
— Robert Peston (@Peston) February 11, 2019
reaction has not been one of unbridled joy. And even erstwhile Corbyn loyalists are becoming grumpy at what they see as his refusal to follow the revealed will of Labour members and supporters that their should be a referendum. One said: “the only interest”…
— Robert Peston (@Peston) February 11, 2019
…are Corbyn’s team useless or Machiavellian?
Posted 4 days ago
As @Peston tells it, Corbyn agreed to put the “if you don’t agree, we’ll back a people’s vote” paragraph in the letter. It was then taken out before it was released. And Corbyn’s office claimed it just…forgot.
Utter, utter, farce.
— James Ball (@jamesrbuk) February 11, 2019mrmoMember
good news Assos shorts are safe
oh, forgot rules of origin……Posted 4 days ago
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