I don’t think many of us admire the racists in the other EU countries, apart from the Tories who are supporting them in the parliament.

In some sort of defence of Nadine Dorries, what she said in that interview has been spun. She was referring to the transitional period, where the UK leaves but not leaves, still pays “club fees”, but looses all privileges of full membership. A situation that could go on indefinitely and one that will infuriate the leave, and leave now brigade.

I can’t believe I’ve just defended her. Shoot me now FFS!

Couldn’t agree more Andy8442. I’m absolutely ****ing livid!!!

For myself, but mainly for my 11 and 14 year old daughters, who are going to be deprived of life opportunities, and  grow up in a poorer, less diverse, more insular, meaner and smaller country, on the say so of a shower of cynical, lying, self-serving opportunists, and hard right zealots, and the bunch of petty, bitter, small-minded little-England idiots and racists who were stupid enough to listen to them

I wake up every day thinking about Breshit, and go to sleep thinking about Breshit. As the day goes on, it makes me feel angrier and angrier. Now my wife has just said maybe we should think about stocking up on a few things, and my 15 yr old daughter is genuinely scarred by it all.

This is one of the saddest posts I’ve read on here for a while 🙁🙁 Don’t you think its your somewhat over the top Brexit paranoia thats scaring your daughter ?

Whatever the future holds, bright, educated young people will do just fine. It’s old uneducated people like myself, without the skills to be mobile who are stuck with this mess. And still I force myself to be optimistic, because there’s F all else I can do.

*what she said in that interview has been spun.”

It doesn’t need to be spun, she just doesn’t understand the facts. The UK *will* have left, the interim period is simply an arrangement to help the UK in lieu of a formal trade , no deal.Hence no MEPs.

 Don’t you think its your somewhat over the top Brexit paranoia thats scaring your daughter ?

Really, over the top? we have a government at war with itself, 2 factions that can’t get close to agreement, half of them hell bent on crashing the UK out with no transition and there seems to be no plan in action at all.

Where is the positive news, the “it will all be all right” stuff might get you through but you know what it won’t be if we crash out.

Whatever the future holds, bright, educated young people will do just fine.

Or to put it properly, just better than

 old uneducated people

And still I force myself to be optimistic, because there’s F all else I can do.

I prefer to be realistic about what will happen and try and engage where I can to make sure this does not drift away as “The grown ups are sorting it out, no need to worry your pretty little head about it”

That retiree just believes the nationalistic propaganda of war, rather than understanding the reality of history. European integration has honoured those who fought and died by bringing peace and understanding, allowing people to travel freely and understand our neighbours cultures. It is the small minded isolationists who disgrace the sacrifices made during the war.

And I think that half the problem now is that most of those who bang on about the sacrifices made, didn’t actually live through the war, they didn’t experience it, they learned about it from post war comic books and Hollywood movies extolling glory and heroism while whitewashing the real suffering and fear. Those that lived it, took us into Europe for a reason, that the poppy mafia now ignore.

Absolutely spot on, and well said!  It’s not just me that’s noticed that the most vocal of the poppy mafia aren’t old enough to have lived through WW2.  My grandfather was a regular infantryman at the outbreak of WW1 and fought and (just about) survived many of the major battles.  He was invalided out of the Army, couldn’t work after the war and had to live on a very meagre army pension.  He couldn’t stand the whole poppy thing (apparently, he wouldn’t allow one in the house!).  He used to say that the British make more of a fuss of the dead than they do the living, and I think he saw the poppy campaign as Earl Haigs blood money.

My wife’s grandfather saw action with the 8th army in the Western Desert and then France, and again, I guess because he’d seen the results of war at first hand, he didn’t want to remember it – and I think he could see through this Nationalist sh*te.  My wife said she once asked him why the returning troops voted Churchill out, and he said “ we’d just spent the four years fighting fascists, we weren’t going to vote the buggers back in here”.

There was a programme on the radio a few years back that was about ‘end of empires’, and the guy had researched the dying throes of several big empires, and he’d picked out patterns of behaviour that were common to all.  One of these was the ‘celebration’ of previous military successes, and the over veneration of war dead by people who were separated by age from the actual events.  Seem to remember the researcher describing the harking back to ‘golden age’ and over veneration as the final death rattle of empire.

i don’t think Brexiters appreciate what a stabilising influence the EU has been.

binners

…but mainly for my 11 and 14 year old daughters, who are going to be deprived of life opportunities, and  grow up in a poorer, less diverse, more insular, meaner and smaller country…

Just move to Scotland.

We welcome incomers and we’ll be independent soon.

I remember seeing a Polish politician on tv the day after the referendum.

He was furious and I also think really saddened by the result. His father had been a pilot fighting over the skies of Britain during the war.

He said something like “let the British fly their own planes next time”. Of course we did do that too but you could see his point. I felt deeply saddened at the time and now so just as much.

As far as stockpiling, I will be doing so and no, I’m not a tin foil hat type normally.

I’ll be attempting to get my 89 year old mother an extra month of her extremely important meds. Will definitely be getting a few Jerry cans of fuel sorted too. Lots of canned goods also.

I really think if we crash out it’s going to get very bad very fast.

If I’m wrong? Who cares. If I’m right….

Of course, the horrible reality is that if it goes pear shaped things could be very, very bad for far more than a month or so.

Don’t they say that civilisation is only a few missed meals away from anarchy and chaos? Though it’s not just food anymore. It’s petrol and blackouts too.

Whatever the future holds, bright, educated young people will do just fine.

You do know that for the most part because we do shorter degrees these are classified one down or not at all in many other countries.

So a masters is classified as a bachelors etc. Now there are a few universities that have some weight and if you look at global top 20 UK normally has 4-5 which if you want to work abroad these will help with visas.

as with our negotiating stance with the EU we have assumptions above our station. The rest of the world has caught up and we are standing still. It’s **** depressing

Just move to Scotland.  We welcome incomers and we’ll be independent soon.

Do we? Last I checked we had just as many insular folk, they just aren’t part of the narrative. You can pretend they don’t exist if you like but you can’t change facts.

One of the more disturbing elements of the ongoing clusterf**k that is Brexit is the yawning rift it has opened – where open abuse has become the normative form of address between each and the other.

My Mum will turn 80 next week, and she remembers hiding under the stairs as bombs rained down on Salford, terrified and clutched in a huddle with her Mother and Brother. She voted to Remain btw, even though she is old.

Now barbed insults rain on us from everywhichway and we have lost a communal huddle to clutch to.

As hard as it might be, can we at least be civil?

You do know that for the most part because we do shorter degrees these are classified one down or not at all in many other countries.

Our masters are a bit different, not being two years. But the value of a lot of the world’s 4 year bachelor’s is really quite terrible, the 1st year in American universities is a generalist year that is no tougher than IB. Some European and international courses I’ve seen have a seen have really quite easy exams in the first and second years. Don’t get me started on Asia, outside of Japan, eg China the university and academic systems can be utterly corrupt.

Overall except for the USA, I have never seen foreign companies turn there noses up at a good UK degree. Our middling universities are as highly ranked as a lot of top universities from other nations.

Problem is we are dealing with this- from another forum….

If we crash out and lamb exported to France gets 40% tariffs, would New Zealand lamb imported into the UK also have 40% tariffs under wto rules?

If so, just use the tariffs collected from the NZ lamb to subsidise the UK farmer who exports to France.

Am I correct in thinking that UK lamb export volumes broadly equal our imports?

I can’t be arsed to explain this to the individual who wrote this why the above does not work like that. Its difficult to remain civil when faced with this level of stupidity. The vast majority of these people just simply dont understand the reality of what is going on. The person above is a ****ing sheep farmer who voted leave.

Overall except for the USA, I have never seen foreign companies turn there noses up at a good UK degree.

Companies don’t issue visas governments do.

i will admit that our short system is generally no worse than other countries long system but if you are a government mandating the long style we don’t check all the boxes. Forms, faceless officials and AI don’t reason…

The crux of the conversation comes from what is a good degree. One guy I worked with said get a first from a top 10 uni and you will be fine… I didn’t get a first btw…

It’s not easy, to be sure, but whichever way the cards fall we’re still going to have to live with each other.

Deep breaths before typing?

Well i dont need to live with them, my family, colleagues, friends are all on the remain side of the fence and you need to have a degree in IT to work in my business and probably be under 30 so little chance of me employing a swivel eyed brexitter.

However down the pub its good fun winding the real dumb arses up.

My questions include ” WTO how do you spell that”

Had one local rabid brexit nut job complain about the cost of diesal and i said ” well uncertainty and the exchange rate dont help,” and i was told that the exchange rate had nothing to do with fuel prices…. apparently he told me the price of a pint had not changed from the last time he was in Tenerife- i shit you not.

It’s all such a mess.

I wish i could see a way out of it, but i can’t.

What do you do when you have donkeys led by donkeys?

It’s not easy, to be sure, but whichever way the cards fall we’re still going to have to live with each other.

Deep breaths before typing?

Sorry, but no. The triumph of the EU has been substituting in debate and argument for shooting and bombing. The Brexiteers will be lucky if there isn’t physical violence if we crash out and tip the country into anarchy.

They deserve to be offended.

A lot of hysteria and a lot of hate on this thread!

My take is got to keep a sense of perspective, I reckon despite this mania very little will change when Brexit goes through.

(Before the pitch fork mob comes along, I voted remain. But I respect the population that didn’t)

May is going to be saying this today too to over…. well, you know the types.

“It will no longer be the case that EU nationals, regardless of the skills or experience they have to offer, can jump the queue ahead of engineers from Sydney or software developers from Delhi.

“Instead of a system based on where a person is from, we will have one that is built around the talents and skills a person has to offer.”

So, I take from the above, this:

1) We only sent over to the EU the best of the best Brits then? I wonder if UK experts thought they were jumping queues when working/living over there…?

2) Who exactly shall we get to pick our crops then? The brain surgeon from Melbourne?

3) I can’t help but think many Brexiteers actually don’t get realise that many of the immigrants we shall be prioritising from over seas….. Will actually be “worse”** than the EU citizens we currently allow in. By that I mean that a great many of them will not be white…. and though we are always told Leavers aren’t racist…. I can’t but keep this fact has so far eluded them which is bloody genius in my book.

** Worse based on skin colour as per the (hush,hush) Leaver rule book 101. I’m sure not all Leavers are racist but I’m also sure most racists are Leavers!

My take is got to keep a sense of perspective, I reckon despite this mania very little will change when Brexit goes through.

OK…

I currently pop to the eu for work, how will that work post brexit?

Some on my colleagues sell equipment into the eu, what should eu customers allocate for tariffs?

How will we manage the port of Dover in the new brexit regulations (which we have not written down yet)

My take is got to keep a sense of perspective, I reckon despite this mania very little will change when Brexit goes through.

Whatever happens prices will go up and big businesses will squeeze their supply chain to get more profits.

As long as I can still live and work in the EU as I can do now visa free we will be all good.

Still you are right though in some respects nothing will change. Manufacturing still won’t be coming back here and depressed areas that have been ignored for decades will still be ignored… none of the issues that caused this will be addressed or fixed…

(Before the pitch fork mob comes along, I voted remain. But I respect the population that didn’t)

I really did try to do that at first but when you are faced with such mindless abandon to negatively affect my family’s life in the future I find it increasingly hard to find any forgiveness. I now take it pretty bloody personally in fact.

Mike, net flow of trade is 70 billion from UK to EU.

They want to sell to us, we want to buy. I don’t see how this changes in any sort of Brexit

I’d like to remind all that I voted remain, and am married to an immigrant.

They want to sell to us, we want to buy. I don’t see how this changes in any sort of Brexit

I’d suggest you read up on that then.

I’d like to remind all that I voted remain, and am married to an immigrant.

If they don’t have a UK passport best read up some more….

This is exactly what needs to be agreed by a UK government who can’t agree with each other and then agreed by the rest of the eu.

They want to sell to us, we want to buy. I don’t see how this changes in any sort of Brexit

That principle won’t change. The costs to either party might and therefore the supply/demand. Plus if we go to WTO other people get to decide our tariffs and industry subsidies for us…

still basic trade is just a minor part of what we have with the EU. There is of course the movement of people but also the collaboration of research, safety standards to name a few. Some we lose entirely, some we will have to follow but without any say and for others we might be able to access the systems as s third party at greatly increased effort/cost.

. Plus if we go to WTO other people get to decide our tariffs and industry subsidies for us…

We would need to become members first.

They want to sell to us, we want to buy. I don’t see how this changes in any sort of Brexit

That basic will doesn’t. But the devil’s in the detail……as Mike says, I suggest you have a read up on that and quite quickly. It might make you rethink on your

very little will change when Brexit goes through.

“It will no longer be the case that EU nationals, regardless of the skills or experience they have to offer, can jump the queue ahead of engineers from Sydney or software developers from Delhi

I think we can translate this as  “ cheapest gets to come in”.

As for “very little will change”, a bloody lot has already changed and none of it good.

I’d like to remind all that I voted remain, and am married to an immigrant.

If they don’t have a UK passport best read up some more….

Here’s the relevant information, I don’t see anything of concern for ugarizza’s wife. Point to the bit where she or anyone else already living here will get kicked out ?

https://www.gov.uk/settled-status-eu-citizens-families

Depends whether she is eligible for…

– pre settled status

– settled status

– ILM

– citizenship

…and whether she wants to keep her rights to her “other country”, or has to, or wants to, leave the country for a lengthy period of time any reason (for work or family reasons) and then return. If he’s earning 1.5 times the average UK earnings… she should be fine no matter what. Anything that gets you involved with the home office, just to keep your right to live somewhere, is best avoided though. Speak to anyone that’s been through it.

If you’re a European Union (<abbr title=”European Union”>EU</abbr>) citizen, you and your family will be able to apply to get either settled or pre-settled status. This will mean you can continue living in the UK after 31 December 2020.

What is the reason for writing “apply” it’s not a given.

It’s also part of ongoing negotiations, not sure if it gives the same rights to current EU citizens.

But yeah nothing changes….

Still nobody can tell me what the visa process will be for working on the continent, or which tariff model we will be using in about 4 months time. How should people be budgeting for that in capital projects?

Yeah agree with what someone said above re collective over reaction.

Brexit is a major issue but it is now the emotions of anger, hate and fear which poses the grestest threat. These are threatening to get out of control which means things could turn nasty eg major civil strife. These have been building for a long time and the main challenge facing the country is the lack of inclusive economic growth thats plagued us since the 70s.

Theresa Mays brexit deal is actually a great unifier. Everyone in parliament is united against it. But peoplr do need to take a step back, get some pespective, this isnt helped be a headline grabbing media and some reckless behaviour by MPs.

Yeah agree with what someone said above re collective over reaction

My job is at threat. Am I allowed to be a teensy bit upset?

Yeah agree with what someone said above re collective over reaction

This has real and substantial impacts on my life, my work, my family and many other things. I am having rights and freedoms removed from me and there is no leadership at all on the issue, no consensus and very little time to sort all of this out. If I’m not allowed to be angry over this then what can I get angry about.

Ok so after hearing all the arguments from maybot 1.0 in her press campaign and now she’s had a firmware update  i reckon we should all leave and stop being silly

What is the reason for writing “apply” it’s not a given.

In the same way as I’m entitled to a passport, but still have to apply for one.

Anyway I know this is the Brexit moan thread. I hope it helps for some to let of a bit of steam about the whole mess. But that only works up to a point, the level of bile, negativity and actual hatred on this thread is borderline  poisonous. For your own well being I’d recommend some of you reign it in a bit. Me I’ll duck out of this thread for now untill things are a bit clearer.

I do hope you are as insulated from this debacle as you assume.

Hopefully we will see you safe and well on the other side.

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A lot of hysteria and a lot of hate on this thread!

My take is got to keep a sense of perspective, I reckon despite this mania very little will change when Brexit goes through

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really depends on the sector you are in

Here in cancer research 3 big things are the loss of EMA meaning that Pharma is shifting (actually already shifted) certfication work  to continenet, leaving us at a dissadvantage,

Funding,>10% of all accademic funding is via EU, government have pledged to match existing projects, but science has to plan 3-5 years ahead to keep teh money coming & access to EU grants has become much harder, even Welcome are threatening to cut UK funding which would be very bad for my sector</span>

FOM, weve already seen big drop in EU students at universities & that is not good for fininaces & EU job applicants have definitely dropped off & many have already left, whist ever tighter visa restrictions on ROW mean for 1st time, we are struggling to recruit good candidates (similar to whats being seen in NHS)

Other than that general economy is showing worrying trends, inflation has taken £bns frome economy & pockets- personal debt now at record levels & this has follow on effects on high street etc, theres a lot of companies that didnt need this extra hit right now, (not saying brext is only cause just another factor)

.