EU Referendum – are you in or out?

Home Forum Chat Forum EU Referendum – are you in or out?

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  • EU Referendum – are you in or out?
  • Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Unfortunately, most people I know who voted Leave, and voted for May’s take on the Conservatives, happens to be older with a rent/mortgage free home. That definitely clouds my judgement of who the current government are governing for. But then, despite all the young voters I know voting Labour, the old guys leading that party don’t seem to much better balanced away from chasing the Grey Vote either.

    It’s the blame game that isn’t quite so clever.

    I blame the politicans.

    But then again… they’re always after votes…

    Premier Icon slowoldman
    Subscriber

    Most people I know who voted Remain happen to be older with a rent/mortgage free home. That just happens to be most of the people I know.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/05/firms-no-additional-checks-eu-employees-nokes

    Government backtracks on additional checks for EU nationals after a no deal brexit.

    So basically been just votes for economic suicide and nothing more….

    Premier Icon scotroutes
    Subscriber

    Most people I know who voted Remain happen to be Scottish.

    Can we blame this on the English and Welsh?

    Government backtracks on additional checks for EU nationals after a no deal brexit.

    Government backtracks on monitoring people in the country once it realises it does not have the wit or wherewithal to do it…

    plus any check requires a national photo ID. so for a UK citizen everyone would need a passport or the dreaded National ID card to prove their right to work…

    The pointlessness of this is glorious, no taking back control of our borders and migration for the brexshiteers and a borked economy for the rest of us.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    It’s not pointless.…

    …nope, you’ve got me, it is pointless.

    Oh no, hang on, it’a been a great opportunity for lots of people to make a political point about sovereignty, or looking after our own, or other nonsense. Nothing cited as a reason for doing this can’t be acted on by our government (given enough time/money/drive) from inside the EU.

    • Want better controls on who gets to live and work here? Then waste money monitoring who enters and leaves… where they live… what they earn… all a waste of time, but being in the EU or not, that’s what you have to misdirect your efforts into.

    • Want a worthwhile trade deal with a country we don’t currently have one with? Work with the EU to get one… that way we have the collective bargaining position to get one. No block has a better record on reducing trade barriers with other trading blocks/countries.

    pondo
    Member

    You know how, every now and then, someone posts on here to say “f*** it, if the idiots want it bad enough, let’s turn the country to sh!t, I’ve had enough!”? I’m almost there.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Lucas did a good job on C4.

    It helped that both Conservative and Labour representatives admitted that their plans for Brexit would damage our economy, and proposed no real benefit beyond “the decision was made” back in 2016, and that by leaving we would comply with that decision.

    Premier Icon matt_outandabout
    Subscriber

    Most people I know who voted Remain happen to be Scottish

    I would like to remind you of where you live…!

    I’m just depressed by it now.

    Lord Sugar, I agree with. Those who misled us, deliberately, funded by dodgy sources, should be prosecuted somehow. Class action against Garage, Johnson and Gove anyone?

    mattyfez
    Member

    It’s ok to be a dumb voter.. People make mistakes and that’s fine. That’s why referendums are advisory.

    That’s why MPs are supposed to act for the good of the country rather than hiding under an umbrella.

    Those in power who took the referendum result literally on such an insignificant margin because it suited an agenda are those who should be punished most..

    Premier Icon scotroutes
    Subscriber

     I would like to remind you of where you live…!

    That’s my point Matt. We all live in a bubble that makes it difficult for us generalise based on what we see immediately around us. But, you know, if everyone else is playing the blame game, I might as well join in

    mattyfez
    Member

    We all live in a bubble that makes it difficult for us generalise based on what we see immediately around us.

    We don’t really, all it takes is a little thought, critical thinking and logic.

    Premier Icon matt_outandabout
    Subscriber

    That’s my point Matt. We all live in a bubble that makes it difficult for us generalise based on what we see immediately around us.

    So true. Even when we think we’re not. 😉

    Premier Icon welshfarmer
    Subscriber

    all it takes is a little thought, critical thinking and logic.

    that’s why people read the Dail Mail/Express/Sun etc, takes the effort  out of those sorts of thing

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Have a look at the Survation data breakdown, if you think that the oldest vs youngest concept as regards Brexit and related issues is just our conceptions based on living in bubbles.

    And politicans are following the oldest on this. I still blame politicans for not properly considering the country as a whole.

    Premier Icon scotroutes
    Subscriber

     Have a look at the survation data breakdown, if you think that the oldest vs youngest concept as regards Brexit and related issues is just our conceptions based on living in bubbles.

    Or have a look at the regional voting and see if you think the English and Welsh are to blame.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Move on from 2016. Many areas of England and Wales are moving towards the sensible views on Brexit, and even more so on immigration, held in Scotland and NI. Have a look at the Survation data.

    Where as the oldest/youngest divide is growing.

    It’s down to politicans to listen more widely, and act for the whole country, not just older voters.

    Premier Icon matt_outandabout
    Subscriber

    🤣🤣🤣

    willard
    Member

    It’s also time for the politicians to start thinking abut the whole United Kingdom, not just the south east (or Greater London), but that’s not going so well right now. Sadly, that’s where the wealth appears to be and will be where they focus.

    koldun
    Member

    I don’t know anyone here in Spain who voted leave. None of my friends in Germany did either. I’m going to blame the British for this mess.

    Premier Icon Dickyboy
    Subscriber

    All my dad’s I know voted to leave, I blaim my dad

    Premier Icon dissonance
    Subscriber

    not just the south east (or Greater London

    By going ahead with Brexit they are. Certainly ignoring London and SE was very close. As far as I can tell all the wealthy parts of the SE voted remain. So clearly the wealthy (outside of the brexit elite) arent winning in this case.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Okay, I’ll dive into the Survation data so that you don’t have to…

    18-24 : 77% remain

    25-34 : 67% remain

    35-44 : 60% remain

    45-53 : 50:50

    55-64 : 53% leave

    65-74 : 59% leave

    75+ : 65% leave

    (20th October – 2nd November 2018 – table 5)

    Regional breakdown shows swing from Leave to Remain strongest in Wales, North of England, and South West. Sciotland and London still have strongest Remain support though… but England and Wales both Remain now.

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    All that abuse slung at Carole Cadwalladr by the likes of Banks, Guido, Wigmore etc

    and she keeps being proved right

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/live/2018/nov/06/information-commissioner-to-levy-fines-against-leave-eu-live

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Banks still lying about it all. And being applauded for it.

    I wonder what Nick Clegg’s roll will be now that this makes calls for more info from Facebook a very live issue again…?

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    Sounds like a well run company…

    Premier Icon zippykona
    Subscriber

    Will this information  make labour realise that there are votes to be had by being pro remain?

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Doubt it. They think we’ll be “out” of the EU before any new nationwide vote takes place… and then what option do voters really have…?

    Premier Icon slowoldman
    Subscriber

    It swings to leave at an earlier age than most people seem to think.

    Also worth checking the stats re. educational level, income and employment status.

    dannyh
    Member

    The pointlessness of this is glorious

    It is far from pointless if you stand to gain personally when public services are further starved of cash and have to wave the white flag and be ‘outsourced’…….

    Or if you stand to gain personally when your workforce can have their terms and conditions ripped up in their faces and you can announce that it is this or nothing.

    Premier Icon matt_outandabout
    Subscriber

    All my dad’s I know voted to leave, I blame my dad

    My sister and BIL voted leave, as frustrated copper and nurse. Guess which home secretary he was p*ss*d at is now PM? BIL and sister also chose to leave and now live and work abroad, having dumped us in it..

    dannyh
    Member

    @kimbers

    All that abuse slung at Carole Cadwalladr by the likes of Banks, Guido, Wigmore etc

    and she keeps being proved right

    Yep – and she’ll be proved right again when the fines levied are totally derisory and can thus be thought of as ‘operating expenses’ for the greatest heist in British history.

    mefty
    Member

    All that abuse slung at Carole Cadwalladr by the likes of Banks, Guido, Wigmore etc

    and she keeps being proved right

    Information Commissioner finds no evidence of:

    Cambridge Analytica (“CA”) being involved with Leave.EU other than a preliminary exercise.

    Any connection between the work AIQ did for Vote Leave and CA

    Any misuse of data by Vote Leave

    So little evidence for her conspiracy theory.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    It swings to leave at an earlier age than most people seem to think.

    Around about 60? Slightly under that? As low as 50? Whippersnappers…

    Premier Icon dissonance
    Subscriber

    Information Commissioner finds no evidence of:

    Your choice of key points is rather fascinating.

    Cambridge Analytica (“CA”) being involved with Leave.EU other than a preliminary exercise.

    They did however find a relationship between AIQ and Vote Leave and a couple of others. Since the links between AIQ and CA are, to put it mildly, confusing it isnt unreasonable for a journalist to use CA when it was actually AIQ.

    There is also an outstanding case around CA and UKIP with possible Leave.EU involvement. This wasnt included in this report since UKIP are appealing.

    Any connection between the work AIQ did for Vote Leave and CA

    Well aside from the fact they found a rather complex relationship between the two organisations. That is with them being able to use a lot more aggressive tactics than a journalist. Even then its worth noting CA didnt cooperate and are under crimimal investigation due to this.

    Any misuse of data by Vote Leave

    How convenient. You skip the fact they found clear misuse of data by Leave.EU

    So little evidence for her conspiracy theory.

    Really? Lets recap the actual facts rather than your rather convenient cherry picking:

    CA are under criminal investigation due to miuse of data. They would be facing fines on top as well if they hadnt gone into insolvency.

    Facebook got hit with a fine.

    Leave.EU and Eldon insurance misused data and are being fined for it.

    So whilst she didnt get all the details right she got the broad gist correct.

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    Amusing that you are able to pick out such narrow points Mefty when banks & co have repeatedly changed their stories as new revelations have been revealed.

    Meuller looking at Banks’s comms with Russian ambassador now too (remember when he said it was just a boozy lunch!)

    VL & Leave.eu happily coordinated messages together during ref…. see Johnson & Gove lies about Turkey blowing the dog whistle Farages immigrants poster handed them.

    VL already been fined for their payments to AIQ & canadian investigation into AIQ still ongoing?

    And AIQ blacklisted from handling personal data by ICO (tho they are now working for Bannon on republican projects in the USA)

    Naivety or just straight up denial to try & say that cadwalladr hasn’t been vindicated, despite some very unpleasant & persistent personal abuse by those lovely people

    kerley
    Member

    It swings to leave at an earlier age than most people seem to think.

    Probably around the same age that people swing from left to right.  As people age and go from being part of a society at the lower end to owning their house, protecting their money they care more about themselves and less about others so switch from labour to conservative and would also favour brexit

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    I missed this poll…

    https://www.itv.com/news/2018-11-02/voters-in-every-labour-held-constituency-support-a-peoples-vote-on-brexit/

    “Voters in every seat held by a Labour MP support the idea of a so-called ‘people’s vote’ on the outcome of the Brexit negotiations, according to a large-scale new poll released on Friday.”

    The so-called ‘will of the people’ is shifting.

    Still, most of the noise from those close to those leading the Labour Party as regards Brexit since that poll has been about how Banks and his dubious doings should be ignored, as it made no difference to the result in 2016. The win in 2016 is all that matters to Labour’s eurosceptic Leaders. Saddening to see what those around them are prepared to do to support them.

    Labour MPs need to have a serious think…

    Now, which announcements of factory closures should we ignore/discus next…?

    Premier Icon onewheelgood
    Subscriber

    Probably around the same age that people swing from left to right.

    Pretty much everyone I know has become more left as they get older, as the unfairness of the right’s position becomes ever more obvious.

    The only exceptions to this are people who started out working class and poor, and are now wealthy. They seem particularly keen to pull the ladder up behind them. Like all the immigrants who voted for brexit to stop immigration.

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