I think someone has turned the bots off,THM is on extended leave,jamba doesn’t seem to have been on for months,and it’s 2 months since ninny was on,being rude about gay pride. Only our resident fake East Asian is still actively posting,and he’s pretty quiet these days.

but it appears to be an incredibly mobile workforce

And a big difference for a company between you having the right to work somewhere and then having to employ visa lawyers sand provide guarantees to individuals and government agencies.

It creates a small but significant psychological step for the company in terms of commitment but also creates a potential slave master relationship between the employee and employer as the employee can’t say boo to a goose as loss of work means deportation…

That’s a valid issue with the right to live somewhere.

The slave/master thing isn’t something I recognise amongst those I’m thinking of. If it’s not working out for them they just move. That’s not something I imagine most have the luxury of doing.

Tiny segment of the workforce so more or less irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Out of idle curiosity does anyone has statistics on the emigrant workforce and exactly what it is they do?

And a big difference for a company between you having the right to work somewhere and then having to employ visa lawyers sand provide guarantees to individuals and government agencies.

And then there is the matter of your spouse and kids also having the right to move with you.

One of my colleagues – a very highly skilled person from outside the EU but working in the UK – has not been able to see her daughter for months as she was not able to get a visa to travel with her.That will be the default position for everyone post-Brexit, in both directions.

The slave/master thing isn’t something I recognise amongst those I’m thinking of. If it’s not working out for them they just move. That’s not something I imagine most have the luxury of doing.

The US is the leader in this. My visa stated that in the event of me losing employment I had 24hrs to leave the country and my visa was non transferable to any other company. The employer had all the power. It is the nature of that country though. My visa to OZ was far less restrictive… I have the masters, PhD and am supposedly highly skilled and have worked around a bit. Nothing can replace freedom of movement for simplicity and lack of stress.

our resident fake East Asian

🤔?

This commentary  by Lib Dem MP David Chalmers on the Save Brexit Roadshow sums up the totally depressing nature of Brexit

The old stealing the future of the young

If it’s not working out for them they just move

As said, not that easy if you have kids or want a stable existence. Easy enough for young people or couples.. well, maybe.. I mean if you have one person as the main breadwinner fair enough but if you both have highly skilled jobs based on visas it’s not great; if one of you loses your job the other has to quit too.

And then there’s the issue of spouses not being eligible to stay, as mentioned above. It’s shit, and it will make it far less attractive and more stressful for those wishing to work here.

I looked into working in the US for a while and despite being a skilled worker it was basically not possible to just get a job there as noone wanted the hassle of sponsoring me and proving they needed me and not someone local. Essentially migration will only be available to the elite, or fruit pickers and cleaners.

Most of us will be stuck here for good.

Essentially migration will only be available to the elite,

Or to give power to corporations who can dangle carrots

Sorry Woppitt,is chewkw a real person ? Have you met him ? I’d guess he would stand out in Cramlington.

This whole Ireland thing

Why not just give Ireland to the Irish?

yeah that doesn’t go down well with those who consider themselves more british than the Queen.

You mean “Briddish”.

So basically brexit is impossible to implement without breaking the good friday agreement

So basically brexit is impossible to implement without breaking the good friday agreement

Well I guess you could implement it with a NI-GB border <= vetoed by DUP

or whole UK staying in (a) CU <= breaks EU “4 freedoms” and not liked by rabid Brexshitters

One of the scariest things about the whole Brexit process is just how glib the Brexit headbangers are  about the continuing peace (or not) in Ireland.

They just don’t understand what it was like before. More importantly, as with so many other things, they don’t seem to want to understand either.

Just something else to be sacrificed on their rabid anti-EU alter

just leave without paying the bill we said….

Assuming we even could, there’s a big problem with this that no-one’s talking about.

It’s being thrown around like it’s a punitive charge we have to pay in order to leave.  It isn’t.  It’s money we owe due to existing commitments we’ve agreed to and we’d have to pay it irrespective of whether or not we leave (or indeed if we hadn’t had the referendumb in the first place).  It’s like cancelling a mobile contract early, you’d have to pay off the rest of your contract in order to leave but it’s money you’d still have had to pay if you’d stayed on with your contract.

So, we’re talking about reneging on a deal we’ve already agreed to.  Right before we’re going to be wanting to start negotiations for new bilateral deals with the entire rest of the world.  Hands up who thinks that’s a great idea?  Our international reputation is already in tatters, if we do that no-one will ever trust us again.  As how desirable our import / export capacity may or may not be, we’re simply more trouble than we’re worth.

THM is on extended leave

THM is on permanent leave.

As said, not that easy if you have kids or want a stable existence.

It’s messier than that, as I understand it.  To stay in the UK post-brexit you’ll need a thing called Settled Status.  This replaces the existing Permanent Residence.  The gotcha?  You cannot start applying for Settled Status until after we leave.

So basically brexit is impossible to implement without breaking the good friday agreement

… as we’ve been saying on here for about a year, yeah.

They just don’t understand what it was like before. More importantly, as with so many other things, they don’t seem to want to understand either.

It’s not solely about understanding.  They just don’t care.  It’s a price worth paying, remember.

They just don’t understand what it was like before. More importantly, as with so many other things, they don’t seem to want to understand either.

It’s not solely about understanding.  They just don’t care.  It’s a price worth paying, remember.

There’s nothing like war to boost an economy… or so the saying goes.

I suspect they don’t care and even if trouble breaks out then I suspect some will be quids in.

What I’m appalled by is that on an issue of such importance to the future wellbeing of the nation and its population there is no-one checking the “grown-ups” working out. Does “Due Diligence” not apply to the Government?

Due diligence? This whole thing is being sketched out on the back of a fag packet as they go along

“Due Diligence” not apply to the Government?

Due diligence is currently on holiday with common sense.

Due Diligence is something you do to inform a decision. A50 has been invoked. We should have done the negotiating before triggering the process.

Sadly, Poiticians were in charge of that decision and as they demonstrate on an almost daily basis, they don’t have a **** clue what they’re doing. The terrifiying part is that their incompetence appears to completely unconscious – they believe they know what to do!

I’ve watched the likes of Peter Bone and other hardline Brexiteers with total incredulity at the level of their economic illiteracy. They don’t seem to have the first idea of how the 21st century global economy actually functions. And whats genuinely terrifying is that this ignorance is wilful. Its the Gove ‘we’ve had enough of experts’ writ large. They simply don’t want to know.

They literally believe they can turn back the clock to some mythical pre-globalisation age of empire, and when 100% of the evidence points to the impossibility of this, they simply stick their fingers in their ears and sing land of hope and glory.

The country is being held to ransom by total idiots who’s economic incompetence should immediately disqualify them from being anywhere near political power. Who the **** votes for these half-wits? Oh yeah… the same ****ing morons who voted for Brexit!

Maybe we just start shooting them? Put them out of their brexit misery before the truth appears…

After all no one likes to see old folks suffering or confused.

Also in pharma here, used to work for a CMO in NI in a lab based method development role, just moved back to the UK to take up a project management role for the same company.

I worked on the logic (like others have said) pharma QC testing and lab work in the UK/NI is toast. We had clients turning down long term stability studies as we weren’t sure if data generated in the UK would be accepted in Europe 5 years down the line when the stability testing was concluded. I wouldn’t want to be a UK/NI based QP in a couple of years, don’t think the future is too rosy there. Coupled with that, I didn’t want to stick around to see how things pan out for NI, tensions were already beginning to ratchet up compared to a couple of years ago.

Not sure if moving into project was a wise move, when I was offered roles in the Republic instead, but the manufacturing side of things seems fairly buoyant at the moment. We’re still quoting for and winning work. And project management is significantly more transferrable, hopefully!

For what it’s worth, my company has been hemorrhaging European nationals at all levels since the referendum, and struggling to recruit to replace them.

The whole Brexit show is a farce.

The terrifiying part is that their incompetence appears to completely unconscious – they believe they know what to do!

The Dunning-Kruger effect is a wonder to behold.

From today’s Grauniad

Draft French law preparing emergency measures for “hard” <span class=”PrettyLink-prefix”>#</span><span class=”PrettyLink-value”>Brexit</span>.
It has yet to be debated, but contains following clauses:
1. After no agreement Brexit, UK citizens become third nation citizens and will be obliged to have a visa to come to France and a carte de sejour to stay.

So the “move to France” strategy is not looking that helpful

• Merkel said there was still no breakthrough on the Irish border question.

• She said the German government is seriously preparing for a no deal scenario.

• She said there are very considerable concerns about the rights of British citizens in Germany and German citizens in the EU, with many questions still open.

• She said the German government is determined that members of the EU and non-members with a partnership agreement should not have the same rights.

So basically brexit is impossible to implement without breaking the good friday agreement

https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/features/five-idiotic-irish-border-solutions-brexiters-will-love-20181016178347

THM is on permanent leave.

Boo. My only fragile solace was the thought of being able to turn to him as the bombs began to fall and say, “told you so”.

THM is on permanent leave

Who shall I send the biscuits to?

The government asked people to name a boat but disregarded it as being too silly.

Still going around in circles here I see.

Unless something really dramatic happens, like the tory remainers launch a leadership election(unlikely, as they are cowards) we are crashing out of the EU the hard way. And for those that think “WTO will be fine” our special friend across the Alantic is in the process of decapitating the WTO, along with other international bodies such as the UN.

Trumps vision here is that international bodies interfere with the big bully boy nations such as the USA from getting what they want. Bodes well for little England post brexit.

The day Brexit comes into effect, will be the day we start to undo all that has been done.

The Dunning-Kruger effect is a wonder to behold.

One of the biggest problems is that we measure peoples ability purely on academic intelligence. If they have a degree in something, they must be bright right?

All too often I have run into people who are pretty good in the narrow field of their education, but are absolute sh*t for brains at virtually everything else. There are a very large number of these folk who we call MP’s in Parliament at the moment.

And just to illustrate that ****wittery is not restricted to just the Tories, the Shadow Chancellor is claiming Labour would ‘fairly quickly’ negotiate a deal from this position.

Apart from their stupidity, the other major flaw with Politicians is their belief they must only say what the electorate wants to hear. Brexit was never, is not and never will be easy.

On the subject of Pharma, regarding QA/QC in the UK, post-Brexit. I don’t beleive it’s dead.

Companies simply cannot knee-jerk and the building the EU capacity takes time. I beleive we will see companies willing to take the short term hit on some duplication of release as long-term there will be mutual recognition.

It’s a sad day when a Nazi quote can be applied to the UK (the brexiteers)

 it’s the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it’s always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it’s a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger

the Shadow Chancellor is claiming Labour would ‘fairly quickly’ negotiate a deal from this position.

Of course he could. Stay in the customs union. Party would support it, MPs would support it, EU happy, job done.

Anyway. How long before the political shit really hits the fan? Can’t be long now.

The political shit hit the fan a  while ago but the people frustration hasn’t yet.

Siting on a train, just thinking how far this is going to go. Spoke to an ex boss and his new employer was planning to stock pile in Belgium but at the moment there is no spare capacity. Which sounds ok, until the new Tariffs hit and they re forced on day one to apply all costs.

Personnally I have had enough and if it was easier I would be happily using my dual status and looking elsewhere. At least for now I have a job and have some transferable IT skills. Just need to get my language skills upto speed.

The Dunning-Kruger effect is a wonder to behold.

I wonder if there should be a term to describe those who don’t realise that they’re c****, because they are c****?

Can I claim the “Dunning-Cougar effect”?

And for those that think “WTO will be fine”

WTO is a Really Bad Idea.  Assuming we can actually even trade under WTO rules at all (and it’s far from automatic), it’s a really shit way of trading.  It’s like saying “well, if we get barred from Tesco we can always buy food and drink at the cinema” and then acting all shocked when a small plastic tray of nachos and a cardboard cup of carbonated water and flavourings has just cost you ten quid.