has anyone managed to come up with a single coherent and convincing reason why Brexit is a good idea?

Lots of money to be made from a chaotic economy and you can push through policies that normally would get rejected.

Admittedly it does help if you are living elsewhere though and just using the UK as a profit centre.

Internationalist? Hah! I think he has toyed with being an internationalist. That involves getting along in a world where some people, countries or cultures are not socialist though. We can’t have that can we? Hence the EU wasn’t socialist enough for him.

Whilst there is a principled left wing argument for brexit, Corbyn took the pragmatic approach and voted Remain.

Good things about Brexit- no more MEPs .  Especially UKIP **** claiming wages for **** all.

Or they’ll implement whatever version of brexit they propose in their election manifesto

Politicians following through on election manifesto. Hahahahhahahahahahaha

Whilst there is a principled left wing argument for brexit, Corbyn took the pragmatic approach and voted Remain.

Because he didn’t want to lose the young left vote to the Greens. Like racism, he only pretends to care about it if there are votes in it for him and then he drops any pretensions, once he feels he was won or no longer feels the need for a certain demographic.

He’s a cynical charlatan.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-45638646

More cut to services to pay for Brexshit ?

cynical charlatan

Career politician

LOLZ

I assume you think that the Guardian is demented then, for posting this opinion piece?

No, but the author of it appears to be.

Especially UKIP **** claiming wages for **** all.

Still a nice pension for those career politicians such as Farage.

Career politician

Except the true believers will have you think he’s a  more huggable, less killy, Che Guevara reincarnated.

Whether Labour are pro Brexit or not, Corbyn should have attacked the government a lot more on their handling of the whole situation.

He has been way too passive and not interested.

To be fair we hear as much from him and Labour in general as we did before the last election. It was only when the press had to report what they were saying that he actually got a balanced amount of reporting.

boom

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/25/keir-starmer-brexit-zinger-labour-conference-remain-option-peoples-vote

“Nobody,” said Starmer, “is ruling out remain as an option.” The response in the hall to that was immediate. First an instant volley of applause, but then, from deeper in the hall, and somehow also from somewhere deeper in the gut of the party conference, came the cheering, prolonged and surging, and then the standing ovation.

It was a powerful moment. As someone who has been reporting party conferences for a very long time, I can’t remember all that many like it in any party. It’s rare for a politician, even addressing their supporters, to hit the spot with something truly unexpected and powerful. But Starmer’s embrace of the possibility of remaining in the EU hit that spot unerringly. It was, it seems, an improvised addition to the speech. The words weren’t in the planned text. But the words mattered – and so did the response in the hall. Most were on the feet. The applause went on and on. This was, it suddenly felt, a Labour party that really is up for a fight to preserve Britain’s place in Europe.

A standing ovation for Shadow Brexit Secretary @Keir_Starmer as he says "nobody is ruling out remain as an option" if there's a people's vote on Brexit.

Follow the latest from #LabourConference2018 here: https://t.co/MTLnmOgpcz pic.twitter.com/JQ4IAM9Vzq

— Sky News (@SkyNews) September 25, 2018

excellent!

Or they’ll implement whatever version of brexit they propose in their election manifesto, which people have just voted for and put them in government to do. So why the need for another vote in that case?

you’re channeling THM with that.

brexit is not aligned along party lines, labour are pretty much the only game in town as far as a realistic chance of achieving a halt to this nonsense goes.

Because he didn’t want to lose the young left vote to the Greens. Like racism, he only pretends to care about it if there are votes in it for him and then he drops any pretensions, once he feels he was won or no longer feels the need for a certain demographic.

Most on the left realise that while the EU is very far from perfect, there is no realistic prospect of advancing left of centre politics through Brexit. In fact, the opposite will happen.

As for Corbyn, whether you support him or not, he was leading protests against racists before he was even an MP. To suggest that he doesn’t care deeply about it is to disregard a lifetime of evidence, in favour of unsupported beliefs.

boom

Is the first guy in the audience there Sam the Eagle from the Muppets?

 Like racism, he only pretends to care about it if there are votes in it for him and then he drops any pretensions, once he feels he was won or no longer feels the need for a certain demographic.

He’s anti-establishment, his prior life as an “anti-racist” was more about taking an anti-establishment position than any real care for racism. His views on anti-Semitism and his constant pandering to illiberal, deeply racist Arab dictators is part of that. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if I found out he thought Jews were part of some controlling establishment. He neatly compartmentalizes his views, no matter how contradictory,  to fit his own “**** everyone in power” ideology.

Don’t we have another million-post thread discussing whether Corbyn is evil or not?

His views on anti-Semitism and his constant pandering to illiberal, deeply racist Arab dictators is part of that.

Or the other side of the issue, glad you have your views nailed on there, others are available

The trouble with that Starmer speech is he says “if they can’t force a general election this winter” then they will start looking at other options including a second referendum. Well then it will be too **** late! Is he going to leave it until April 1st to announce they are now backing another vote?

I really hope the conference grabs hold of this and forces them to start opposing this now.

The scenario he seems to be thinking about is that when the “meaningful vote” rejects the tory offering, the govt falls leading to an election, but if it doesn’t, labour will argue for a referendum at that point.

Of course what actually happens in reality is a postponement/withdrawal of A50 and the whole sorry mess gets kicked into the long grass. Perhaps we could have a Royal Commission into how to leave the EU. That should put things back a decade or two by which time enough of the gammons will have died off that no-one will want to start it all over again.

Johnson’s next Telegraph column will be an introspective one where he comes out in favour of a People’s Vote with an option to remain.

He’s anti-establishment, his prior life as an “anti-racist” was more about taking an anti-establishment position than any real care for racism. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if I found out he thought Jews were part of some controlling establishment.

Ah, so us all being ruled by Jews is an establishment position, is it? I think your posts say far more about you than they do about Corbyn.

Ah, so us all being ruled by Jews is an establishment position, is it? I think your posts say far more about you than they do about Corbyn.

How do you get there from

 I wouldn’t be surprised at all if I found out he thought Jews were part of some controlling establishment.

The good thing about Corbyn is he’s an idealist…. but The bad thing about Corbyn is he’s an idealist….

To take the Palestinian/Israeli problem…. one thing that will never provide a solution to this is idealism… any more than we would ever have got a peace in NI without a pragmatic “You are both sides eediots” … Idealistically you can go back to Solomon…. threaten to nuke the whole area.. but sadly both sides would probably prefer that than compromise.

I wouldn’t be surprised at all if I found out he thought Jews were part of some controlling establishment.

You, sir, are a nutjob.  And a rubbish judge of character.

Idealistically you can go back to Solomon…. threaten to nuke the whole area.. but sadly both sides would probably prefer that than compromise.

When I worked in Israel their attitude was if we can’t be here then on the way out we will nuke every major Islamic city…

Well this has gone off-piste hasn’t it. Tin-hat conspiracy theories aside, what amuses me is that there seems to be some confusion as to whether Corbyn is an idealistic hard brexit zealot, or a power hungry cynic who’ll do anything to win an election. Clearly his tactic of keeping everyone guessing is working a treat 🙂

May be working for some but having already lost one election he’s still some way back in the polls against the most inept and paralysed govt I can recall.

So, um, I guess that means his tactic isn’t really working very well at all.

Or actually it’s just that people see what they want to see when it comes to Corbyn. Or they believe the Daily Mail.

May be working for some but having already lost one election he’s still some way back in the polls against the most inept and paralysed govt I can recall.

So, um, I guess that means his tactic isn’t really working very well at all.

Labour was some way back when the last election was called, yet ended up gaining 30 seats, despite most of the UKIP vote going to the Tories. Current opinion polls are a dead heat.

Or actually it’s just that people see what they want to see when it comes to Corbyn. Or they believe the Daily Mail.

I really want to see an electable opposition and I certainly can’t see that. I don’t and won’t read the Mail either. Is there a third option?

I really want to see an electable opposition and I certainly can’t see that.

That’s not quite what he meant…

Is there a third option?

Revolution comrade. That way we get a socialist utopia or a socialist dystopia. No guarantee which way it would pan out though.

40 years pretending to be anti racist – that is good going.  Look back over the debates and votes over those 40 years and you will find Corbyn on the right side (proven by history).  Why anyone would think that was all fake is a strange position.

40 years pretending to be anti racist – that is good going.

Par for the course for a Soviet sleeper agent.

Do I think Corbyn is a racist or an antisemite?

No

Do I think he’s an utterly and completely dithering incompetent who is patently about a million miles out of his depth, and who’s ‘leadership’ has been, and remains to be, on ongoing disaster for anyone who thinks an effective electable opposition might have been quite handy over the last few years….?

40 years pretending to be anti racist – that is good going.

Whereas some on the other side can hardly manage 40 minutes