EU Referendum – are you in or out?

Looks like it could be england and wales going it alone, sailing the ship brittania down the water….but the tide is out and they are beached on a sandbar, sooner that happens the better.

Boris bumping his gums again.

Always telling that he can never offer an actual solution or plan of his own, he can only criticise everyone else.

Looks like it could be england and wales going it alone

I think that alone would boost the polling for IndyWales. And then if the shit starts to hit the fan it’ll boost it even more.  Especially if Scotland manages to join the EU and does well.

Scotland as an EU member would pick up a lot of Anglophone EU headquarters too I reckon.

Barnier once again making it 100% clear that the chequers plan is a non starter

Not sure I can see a way out of this for the govt.  They (we) really are in a sticky situation.

<div class=”bbp-reply-author”>somafunk
<div class=”bbp-author-role”>
<div class=””>Subscriber</div>
</div>
</div>

<div class=”bbp-reply-content”>

Looks like it could be england and wales going it alone

Everyone will be welcome to join the new nation of Great Norn Irn, Scotland, Cornwall, London, and Yarkshire. Except the Welsh, splittin bastards.

</div>

They (we) really are in a sticky situation.

Radio today seemed to be full of Conservative MPs telling us that many Brexit supporters are against the PM’s impossible plan. They each then laid out very broad, and contradictory, ideas of what they would rather see… each of which, of course, many Brexit supporters would also be against. And around we go.

There is no plan for Brexit that is more popular with the British voters than remaining a member of the EU.

Edit: I was tempted to say “no achievable plan”… but the truth is, there doesn’t even seem to be a single “unicorn and cake plan” that would receive majority support from “the people”.

Barnier once again making it 100% clear that the chequers plan is a non starter

That was obvious the minute the plan was announced yet the tories are still squabbling about it without actually realizing that it won’t go anywhere anyway even if they all agreed on it.

Not sure I can see a way out of this for the govt. They (we) really are in a sticky situation.

If this is all about democracy as suggested then why not stick all the proposals on a ballot paper and let the public decide. Including the obvious option to scrap the whole thing and stay I  EU.

Not that this should ever have been put to the public vote in the first place..

I’ve often wondered if, when it all goes wrong and we are all considerably worse off, I will be able to sue those who told blatant lies to being us to this point.

I’m beginning to think a 2nd ref is the *only* way out.

That way, whatever gets decided, it has public support by definition.

I will be able to sue those who told blatant lies to being us to this point.

Imteresting question. Ministerial responsibility is for the department so they get sacked for failures within this. There is a notion of ministerial accountability after the arms to Iraq inquiry but I am not so sure that would apply.

when they campaigned they were not representing the government as their position was remain but acting as individuals(?)

can you sue them for mis selling? Is lying for votes illegal? Could you reasonably expect that the “promises” were guaranteed and there was some kind of contract? Verbal or otherwise… would have far reaching implications…

will be able to sue those who told blatant lies to being us to this point.

Splendid. £350,000,000 and costs?

Where’s THM, BTW?

;”>I will be able to sue those who told blatant lies to being us to this point.</span>

I had discussion along this line with the Electoral Commission.  Short answer – advisory referendum = up to the government what it does with the result.  So those on the official campaigns could lie without accountability and blame the government for what it did later.  Still, apparently that’s democracy.

Not sure I can see a way out of this for the govt.  They (we) really are in a sticky situation.

Well the EU aren’t budging on the Irish boarder issue and rightly so.

The backstop should have no imposed time limit for good reason… There is no other way to square that circle.

Hard brexit would mean a hard boarder in NI or NI leaving the UK.

So we’ll have some sort of extension to keep every thing as it it… So we’re looking at BRINO as a worst case scenario, at least in the short to medium term.

Justine greening pointing out that chequers deal is polling considerably more unpopular than the Poll tax…..

The fact that most of the media is treating Boris Johnson's latest fact-free bloviations as the biggest Brexit story of the day provides a pretty neat encapsulation of why so many are still surprised by the EU's long-established & frequently explained positions.

— James O'Brien (@mrjamesob) September 3, 2018

Justine greening pointing out that chequers deal is polling considerably more unpopular than the Poll tax…..

1) it isn’t a deal

2) any other proposed plan for replacing EU membership, written down, so that could it be scrutinised, would also be “unpopular”

Would anyone care to opine how an international trade agreement might take to agree? I know Canada & the EU took nearly 8 yrs.

I looked at this from the WEF

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/07/how-long-do-trade-deals-take-after-brexit/

I guesstimated with a highly accurate & scientific process that it might take about 3-4 yrs going on the averages from the table in the link.

Any thoughts?

“Any thoughts?”

We’re going to have to stockpile a lot of bananas?

I guesstimated with a highly accurate & scientific process that it might take about 3-4 yrs going on the averages from the table in the link.

Any thoughts?

4 years launch to implantation was the average but that depends how quickly you agree on things and how close you are to start with.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transatlantic_Trade_and_Investment_Partnership

This was the last attempt, fair to assume it will be coming back fairly similar with EU replaced with UK?

This is a case where a no deal can actually be better than a bad deal!

So Mogg now says that the ‘Canada’ deal is fine. Maybot says the Chequers plan is the only way forward. The Blonde Buffoon doesn’t have any idea what would work except that he knows what he doesn’t like.

Rudd just said the Chequers deal is the only way forward (the EU have already said it’s a no go)…

So… “Brexit means”…er, what, exactly?

Brexit!

What do I win?

What do I win?

Job as the UK chief negotiator and scapegoat for boris and co.

Want to reconsider your answer?

We can sue the Treasury? Wow…

Job as the UK chief negotiator and scapegoat for boris and co.

Oh shit, hadn’t thought of that. Guess I’d better just get in line like a good tory and lap up whatever Mummy serves.

We can sue the Treasury? Wow…

Is this about the squirrel problem again?

No apparently the latest wheeze is to sue those who lied to us. They told some real porkies (arguably under pressure from politicians if you don’t believe HMT is independent) So is it their fault or the politicians who asked them to make the fear stories up?

What about the THM lie that the govt predicted 24.4% growth from brexit? Was it written on a bus?

No it’s all in their document. But not in the untrue way you describe obviously. Amazed you still haven’t found it.

 Amazed you still haven’t found it.

#StillDoesn’tKnowHowToLink

It’s not what they said.

THM’s quote again:

using the gov’s own numbers, in 15 years time the economy will have grown 24.4% instead of 25%

If chequers deal is dead, surely May is finished..  we know Borris wants the job, but seems to offer no alternatives, so may will cling on a bit longer

Either way we’d surely have to ask for an extension, blind brexit seems equally unlikely, the EU would be mad to offer it without some legal safeguards.

On a lighter note I just saw this:

Boris Johnson offered prime minister’s job just to see him shit himself

And immediately thought of Dicken’s insightful post from a few pages ago…

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/sep/02/britain-loses-medicines-contracts-as-eu-body-anticipates-brexit

looks like a massive decline in the UKs power and sadly will lead to an exodus of talent. IN a past life I worked at the MHRA and for this to happen makes me very very sad. UK pharma may not recover from this. The costs associated with restarting may just be too much… even if we stay or retain close links significant damage has been done.

still I am sure someone will be along soon to explain what billion pound industries we have ready to launch in March.

Ducking gutting to see this happening

My source tells me that nothing is leaving the UK, even if it is it’s not that much it’s not even all of it, in fact somebody wanted to come over an open a french pharmacy here.

So what, this country conquered the world with no more health care than leeches and blood letting.

Let the lion roar.

I don’t understand. All the brexiters are racists, why would they have changed their minds? Surely a second ref will have the same result?

A lot of them will be dead .

Surely a second ref will have the same result?

Which is why, now all the information is coming out about the sort of deal we can expect you really really don’t need to ask them again, in fact it would be a waste of time.

the young lad in the office who thinks we should just do it* and then work out the rest later thinks Deal/No Deal/Stay is a plot to split the vote, Asking of Remain got more than 50% he didn’t know what would happen…

*It is basically leave, you know leave and it will happen, and stuff, like leave not sure how much it will cost but you know leave…..

It’s details like that which really make me think they took a while to think this all through.