Viewing 40 posts - 47,121 through 47,160 (of 77,140 total)
  • EU Referendum – are you in or out?
  • eddiebaby
    Free Member

    Just watched last week’s Mock The Week where Angela Barnes described May’s new paper as ‘a Brexit so soft they’ll have to thumb it in.”

    😂

    dazh
    Full Member

    Anyone wondering why Corbyn and Labour are still reluctant to jump on the anti-brexit bandwagon, this might help you understand. For the same reason, this is why talk of a second referendum is stupid. I reckon the people are more pro-brexit now than ever. I’ve no idea how they are going to square this with impossible practicalities of implementing it, but as ever, the idiots in this country will get what they vote for, and then they’ll complain when it all goes wrong.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    There is still no majority in favour of any particular method of Brexit… hence May’s atttempted fudge… but… that doesn’t have majority support either. At some point, someone has to chose something that looks like a true third country FTA, like Canada+, or a close relationship that sees us within the Single Market, and with some kind of Customs Union. When that choice is made, the public will reject it… up to the front benches to decide if hey reject it with a referendum, or a general election. If that general election is after we have left, it’s going to get quite dark… and neither of the current party leaders will be PM. Both party leaders are allowing a slow drift towards the close relationship, while tub thumping for Brexit. Who do they think will be thanking them for this in 2022 (if they do make it that far)?

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    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    Until some people take responsibility for the perceived EU failings

    -IT wasn’t the EU that stopped us saving your industry we chose not to

    – Immigration has helped we chose not to build the right resources

    -We didn’t invest in services properly

    What this means is also holing people to account from the Brexit side, when people claim an NHS dividend we want to see a breakdown of the costs of Brexit

    Klunk
    Free Member

    apparently donny told the maybot to sue the EU not negotiate ! ????

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    Is’t his strategy to Sue loudly but settle out of court in a sealed agreement so nobody knows how much it cost him?

    Klunk
    Free Member

    the irony of the UK taking the EU to the ECJ  (not sure on what grounds) was probably lost on the orange one

    pondo
    Full Member

    Hey, wait a minute – has that been her plan all along…?

    dudeofdoom
    Full Member

    FFS Sue the EU 🙂

    dudeofdoom
    Full Member

    🙂 changed my mind.

    ninfan
    Free Member

    “My Brexit or no Brexit “

    Right now I strongly suspect that’s really a message of  “my Brexit or Jacob Rees Mogg’s Brexit”

    I don’t need to tell you which one i’d rather have running the show 😉

    ninfan
    Free Member

    – Immigration has helped we chose not to build the right resources

    -We didn’t invest in services properly

    Wait it a minute – who was in charge when immigration was at its highest? Public spending was at an all time high, NHS budget growing at an unprecedented rate, new schools, hospitals and doctors surgeries left right and centre (funded by PFI)

    so how can the above allegations be true?

    kelvin
    Full Member

    Who said they happened at the same time?

    Northwind
    Full Member

    <div class=”bbp-reply-author”>dazh
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    For the same reason, this is why talk of a second referendum is stupid. I reckon the people are more pro-brexit now than ever. I’ve no idea how they are going to square this with impossible practicalities of implementing it,

    At this point, brexit is still a mythical beast, and it’s still possible to believe it has wings, a horn, and shits butterflies. Once you actually catch a brexit and put it in a cage, and you see it’s basically a 3 legged chihuahua, the lovers of wings, horns and butterflies can’t believe in those any more (though a load will just seamlessly move to saying they always wanted an oversized barky rat that runs in circles, and that’s what everyone else always wanted too)

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    Cougar
    Full Member

    It’s not an argument, it’s a statistical fact.  The lower your level of education and / or the older you were, the more likely you were to vote leave.  The cut-off where there were more leavers than remainers was about age 45.  Of course, that’s not the same as saying all leavers are thicko gimmers, that’s demonstrably untrue.

    Similarly, not all leavers are racist.  But you can bet your bike that the vast majority of racists are leavers.

    Then came the stories of .. “I spoke to a person who voted Leave; and now they want to Remain ..”

    Anecdotes aren’t really evidence and I suspect that the number of people changing their mind isn’t particularly all that statistically significant (people with strong views tend to double-down when their views are challenged).  But then, when the difference between the referendum results wasn’t statistically significant either…

    Now the argument is “they have never given us a plan”

    Easily disproven.  Show us the plan.  We’ll wait.

    The whole Remain anxiety is built on being ignorant and believing whatever you read.

    Did you type that with a straight face and not a hint of irony?

    cornholio98
    Free Member

    The whole Remain anxiety is built on being ignorant and believing whatever you read.

    And the whole leave mantra is ignore what you read and believe in past glory.

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    Did you type that with a straight face and not a hint of irony?

    Obvious Troll is Obvious?

    Klunk
    Free Member

    Right now I strongly suspect that’s really a message of “my Brexit or Jacob Rees Mogg’s Brexit”

    how can that be the message to brexiteers ? they already want JRM brexit and that would be “My brexit or a No deal brexit” So shes saying if you don’t support me you’ll get what you want to the rebels ?

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    Right now I strongly suspect that’s really a message of “my Brexit or Jacob Rees Mogg’s Brexit”

    Klunk has it, a no deal brexit would see parliament step in very quickly, the evangelists demanding hard brexit are truly a minority.

    mattyfez
    Full Member

    It’s either in or out.

    In maintains the status quo, out is economic suicide. That’s always been the reality, despite the political spin.

    athgray
    Free Member

    Politicians are far cleverer than me, and perhaps I am being stupid, but does anyone think that the skull cracking at Chequers and the subsequent white paper would have been better done near the start of the process rather than close the end?

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    better done near the start of the process rather than close the end?

    What a ridiculous idea that is, Davis would then have had something to discuss during his long lunches over there

    Klunk
    Free Member

    but does anyone think that the skull cracking at Chequers and the subsequent white paper would have been better done near the start of the process rather than close the end?

    we couldn’t show our hand to the EU (even though they new exactly what we wanted from the start and it was really to stop the brexit wing of the tory party from going apoplectic). Every thing going on in government at the moment is for the benefit of the conservative party everybody else just **** rigjht off!

    Cougar
    Full Member

    In maintains the status quo

    That’s the thing.  It doesn’t have to mean that at all.  Remain could (and should) equate to “reform” rather than “do nothing.”

    athgray
    Free Member

    That’s the truly mad thing mike.  Davis has been doing something in his meetings with the EU for 18 months. He then eventually finds out his own sides position, he doesn’t like it at walks. What has he been doing?

    I imagine him dressed up as some sort of court jester in Brussels, with pointy shoes with bells on, and a pointy hat for Michel  Barnier to play hoopla on. (A bit like the scene with Francis Drake in Queenies  court in Blackadder II.)

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    That’s the thing.  It doesn’t have to mean that at all.  Remain could (and should) equate to “reform” rather than “do nothing.”

    What I wanted to see was a remain being an all in vote and commitments for our MEP’s to turn up at least…

     What has he been doing?

    3 square meals, nice hotel and some air miles?

    mattyfez
    Full Member

    That’s the thing.  It doesn’t have to mean that at all.  Remain could (and should) equate to “reform” rather than “do nothing.”

    With MEPs like farage actively working against the interests of the UK… Not likely.

    We need UK MEPs that are actually prepared to do thier jobs, you know  maybe attend the odd meeting and parhaps make some arguments as opposed to doing nothing other than slag the EU off  and wonder why no one is talking to you any more

    dazh
    Full Member

    So now the tory remainers are jumping on the 2nd referendum bandwagon along with the blairites. Much as I would love to reverse the decision, it’s never going to happen. I have no idea why they think the result would be any different. But they want to compound the idiocy of giving the people a vote the first time round by giving them an opportunity to confirm it? Madness.

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

     I have no idea why they think the result would be any different. But they want to compound the idiocy of giving the people a vote the first time round by giving them an opportunity to confirm it? Madness.

    Well the last 2 years will have shed a few supporters, mostly through death and the rest may just realise it’s not a protest vote.

    Del
    Full Member

    edit:

    meh, what Mike said, more succinctly.

    dazh
    Full Member

    The vast majority of the idiots who voted for it last time are still out there and I see little evidence they’ve changed their mind. The main thing that fuelled the original yes vote was the people sticking two fingers up to the politicians because they felt they weren’t being listened to and a new vote will simply confirm this. It’d be the easiest campaign in history. All Farage, JRM, Johnson et al will need to do is say ‘we told you so’.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    The vast majority of the idiots who voted for it last time are still out there and I see little evidence they’ve changed their mind.

    We don’t need the vast majority to.  Just about 2% ish.

    I now fully support a second referendum.  So should everyone else.

    dazh
    Full Member

    And if the idiots vote for a no deal brexit (they will), what then? I understand why some might think it’s a good idea, to me though it just feels like playing russian roulette with the issue. What is required at this point in time is some dry, sober pragmatism from people who actually understand what’s going on. You’re not going to get that in another referendum.

    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    Well after 2 years they can present their vision, perhaps they can register to have their option on the ballot

    Remain

    JRM Version

    BoJo Version

    Corbyn Version

    May Version

    Farage version

    dissonance
    Full Member

    What is required at this point in time is some dry, sober pragmatism from people who actually understand what’s going on

    Sadly though for some of those people who understand what is going on there is no interest in pragmatism.

    igm
    Full Member

    Molgrips – I can see that point of view, but I didn’t support the last referendum and I would struggle to support another one.

    A referendum is a divisive tool unless there is an overwhelming result. In our country at the moment it would simply increase divisions and tension.

    Somebody died because of the nasty campaigning last time round, and I suspect it would be worse if we do it again.

    Now to be fair Greening’s suggestion of a three way transferable vote might assist with that issue, but I’m not convinced.

    What we need is for politicians to do what they’re paid to do and do the right thing for the country.

    dissonance
    Full Member

    perhaps they can register to have their option on the ballot

    Have most of them got a version?

    molgrips
    Free Member

    A referendum is a divisive tool unless there is an overwhelming result.

    It is, that’s why the rules need to be set up.  Qualified majority etc.

    What is required at this point in time is some dry, sober pragmatism from people who actually understand what’s going on. You’re not going to get that in another referendum.

    Yes but both parties already said they’re going to blindly follow the result regardless, and a full U-turn is going to be tricky.  They may be able to wriggle out of it by voting on ‘the final deal’.  But the problem is that even if the deal is rejected and the UK stays in, it’ll still look like a temporary situation so confidence will be destroyed which won’t help either.

    If they abandoned it and committed to remaining for a generation, there’d be riots.  The country’s in a crisis situation that was totally invented by David Cameron for absoutely no reason.  FFS.

    zippykona
    Full Member

    Do you think that people who didn’t vote last time would get off their arses now?

    Hopefully now we have more knowledge of what leaving means they might be more inclined to do so.

    I have friends who were abroad and couldn’t vote who have returned with a now adult child.There’s 3 more remain votes.

    Then there’s a least 5 leavers I know of that have died.

    I think that leave shout the loudest but most people were perfectly happy the way we were.

    binners
    Full Member

    More cloud cuckoo land bulshit from our former foreign secretary in todays Torygraph. Basically, if we all just believe, then everything will be absolutely brilliant

    He obviously doesn’t do irony when he spouted that we should “rediscover the spirit of dynamism of the Victorian age!”

    Yes… but you’ll probably be less enthusiastic about’ the spirit of dynamism of the Victorian age’ if you were about to die at the age of 23 in an industrial accident down a mine, or as canon fodder in another colonial excursion, or maybe just of hunger or typhoid in a workhouse

    He really is a total ****ing cockwomble! It mystifies me that there are still people who haven’t or won’t see through his self-serving idiocy

Viewing 40 posts - 47,121 through 47,160 (of 77,140 total)

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