EU Referendum – are you in or out?

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  • EU Referendum – are you in or out?
  • Premier Icon igm
    Subscriber

    I may disagree with Hannan, but at least he has more brain cells than mills (Blackadder III reference)

    oldmanmtb
    Member

    It’s interesting that in terms of volume and vitorial that the Brexit press has not really reacted that aggressively to the Lords votes.

    If you remove the Rees Mogg John redwoods from the press the kick back has been virtually zero- so has there been a moment of ” this is really not a good idea” among the swivel eyed?

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Time for Labour MPs, members, voters, to remove the obvious block on us keeping a close EEA type relationship with our neighbours…

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    It’s been fairly consistent over the last few days from these two

    mattyfez
    Member

    I don’t disagree that the Lords might be in need of some sort of reform, (but this is hardly the time or the place). I must admit I’m finding it funny that now they are actually doing some damage prevention, against the interest of thier traditional support base, that same base is calling for abolition because they don’t like what’s being said.

    Dare I say that our democratic political infrastructure is actually bearing up in a time of chaos and performing as intended?

    mattyfez
    Member

    Maybe what brexit needs is a new brand image to revitalise support, maybe something like this…

    mattyfez
    Member

    Is it thirteen or fourteen bills on the trott the Lords have knocked back now? I’ve lost count…

    The momentum on brexit has well and truly stopped still, and we’re about to see reverse gear engaged.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    We’re well and truly into ‘you couldn’t make it up’ territory when it was Dave, lest we forget, who stuffed the Lords with Tory Peers who are now gleefully revelling in telling Theresa to eff off. For this they are rewarded by being labelled as Traitors and Enemies of the People by the headbangers., but I suspect are being cheered on by the less unhinged majority of Tory MP’s

    Whats not being remarked upon as much, but is equally as significant, is the number of labour peers who are also as happily waving two fingers at Jezza and the labour leadership when being whipped (or attempting to be) to vote against remaining in the single market etc. I’m pretty certain the vast majority of Labour MP’s (who are pretty much all remainers) will be willing them one in that too.

    Its 14 amendments sent back now for a vote in the commons. Every single one of which is potentially rubbing out Theresa’s precious, oh-so-important red lines. No wonder the Mail/Express/IDS/Redwood fruit-loops are so apoplectic

    There’s hope yet. God bless the unelected old duffers! Hurray for democracy!! 😀

    Premier Icon igm
    Subscriber

    Democracy is as democracy does. 🤩

    Or

    Brexit’s like a box of chocolates. You never know what you’re gonna get.

    sobriety
    Member

    Well, they’re small and brown, but I’m not sure I want to find out what they taste of where Brexit is concerned.

    Premier Icon martinhutch
    Subscriber

    We’re well and truly into ‘you couldn’t make it up’ territory when it was Dave, lest we forget, who stuffed the Lords with Tory Peers who are now gleefully revelling in telling Theresa to eff off. For this they are rewarded by being labelled as Traitors and Enemies of the People by the headbangers., but I suspect are being cheered on by the less unhinged majority of Tory MP’s

    Maybe this is what THM meant by the grown-ups coming up with a solution.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    I presume another BoE downgrade in UK growth expectations isn’t worth mentioning here… already so low before the downgrade that it’s probably not newsworthy.

    The Brexit cheerleaders have successfully moved the narrative on from “project fear” to “voters knew they were voting to damage our economy and standard of living” anyway.

    El-bent
    Member

     Lords is basically advisory. Commons can use the Parliament Act to force it’s will. Oh hang on.  Advisory you say?

    The Commons can’t use the Parliament act. There wasn’t a Queens speech/opening of Parliament last year(or this year either) setting out what legislation the Government wants to pass into law.

    No queens speech, no Parliament act.

    fifo
    Member

    Dare I say that our democratic political infrastructure is actually bearing up in a time of chaos and performing as intended?

    It certainly seems to be heading that way, in part

    Premier Icon theotherjonv
    Subscriber

    May has ‘split her cabinet’ to find a solution to the customs arrangements.

    I think you’ll find they’re already split dear.

    Premier Icon zippykona
    Subscriber

    Ooh it’s just like The Apprentice. Next week BoJo can head the Remain  team.

    Premier Icon Northwind
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    “May has ‘split her cabinet’ to find a solution to the customs arrangements.”

    Even leaving aside the brilliant choice of words, it’s just become an office teambuilding exercise hasn’t it? We’ll split into two and whoever can build the best spaghetti bridge wins. Except that the hard brexiteers insist spaghetti is an EU conspiracy and build their bridge entirely out of blutac then declare themselves the winners because it doesn’t collapse as fast as you’d expect

    thecaptain
    Member

    It is awesome in its patheticness. Kicking the can down the road by a full 4 days – I wonder if it’s just so that she could say “see you next Tuesday” to her cabinet colleagues?

    Premier Icon theotherjonv
    Subscriber

    We’ll split into two and whoever can build the best spaghetti bridge wins. Except that the hard brexiteers insist spaghetti is an EU conspiracy and build their bridge entirely out of blutac then declare themselves the winners because it doesn’t collapse as fast as you’d expect

    Perfect.

    Klunk
    Member

    amazing, nearly 2 years in and the government are still no nearer deciding what kind of brexit we are going to get.

    thecaptain
    Member

    Best of all, they are arguing over two non-functional alternatives that have already been rejected by the EU.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Has one half of the cabinet being sent of to discuss the ‘Fairies and Unicorns’ option, while the other half look at the finer details of the’Uber-wizzy Internettty Super-Duper, Space Age, Mega-High-Technology yet-to-be-invented’ variation?

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    Klunk wrote,

    “amazing, nearly 2 years in and the government are still no nearer deciding what kind of brexit we are going to get.”

    But when they do decide, it’ll be The Will Of The People and everyone will have known that was what they were voting for

    mattyfez
    Member

    “Best of all, they are arguing over two non-functional alternatives that have already been rejected by the EU.”

    I’d like to think it’s a delaying tactic to bring things to a real crunch..

    Option 1 being hard brexit /economic suicide for decades to come.

    Option 2 being a retraction /let’s call the whole thing off.

    Bit of a gamble seeing as corbyn has again said he’ll whip abstention from his MPs, quel surprise.

    The man is an utter disgrace, he’s supposed to be leader of the opposition yet he repeatedly is towing the tory line by having Labour abstain from critical votes. He’ll have to come down from sitting on the fence at some point, hopefully he’ll land in a very thorny Bush.

    johnners
    Member

    But when they do decide, it’ll be The Will Of The People and everyone will have known that was what they were voting for

    I think at least 48% knew exactly what they were voting for, so let’s do that.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    The man is an utter disgrace, he’s supposed to be leader of the opposition yet he repeatedly is towing the tory line by having Labour abstain from critical votes.

    Hang on a minute.  Being in opposition doesn’t mean automatically disagreeing with the government on every issue.  It’s not a Monty Python sketch.

    He isn’t pro-EU and never was, so you could hardly expect him to take a hardline remain position now could you?

    Premier Icon zippykona
    Subscriber

    Most of the rabid leavers have at some point been pro Customs Union

    Who has made them change their collective minds?

    mattyfez
    Member

    “He isn’t pro-EU and never was, so you could hardly expect him to take a hardline remain position now could you?”

    I see your point, but he could allow his MPs to vote on critical issues, that’s how Parliament is supposed to work, if a fair amount of whipped Labour MPs are too scared vote, then it’s going to squew the result. It’s not really democratic or representative.

    He sounds more and more dictatorial rather than socialist, as time goes by. There’s a certain irony there.

    For the many, not the few, but only if I agree with it.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    that’s how Parliament is supposed to work

    Hah.  Parties and whips are a bit of a problem when it comes to representative democracy aren’t they?

    kerley
    Member

    Hang on a minute.  Being in opposition doesn’t mean automatically disagreeing with the government on every issue

    Exactly.  Politics would be a lot better if MPs could  openly say they agree with other parties policies.  I have even been know to agree with some Tory policies (not many admittedly) but when I do I am happy to say so.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    I’ve never knowingly agreed with a Tory policy. Well…. certainly nothing this inept self-serving shower have come out with (I see today they’ve found a shed-load of cash to throw at grammar schools, while starving the rest of the education system of funds)

    Unfortunately,  I’m one of the 48% of the population who’s views, on probably the most important political process in my lifetime, aren’t represented by the main opposition party either

    Both the main parties will be rightly damned for generations as this shitstorm unfolds!

    deadlydarcy
    Member

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    Top chops to dominic grieve.

    Johnson has to be the most shameless politician since Blair (&  I think Blair believed he was doing the right thing in his egomaniacal way, johnson just wants power)

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    I actually seriously think Boris Johnson is mentally ill!

    I used to think he was just a shameless opportunist, and he is,  but now I think the main problem is that he’s a dangerous fantasist.

    In his befuddled, ego-ravaged, vainglorious head, I think he seriously believes that he’s Winston Churchill, and Brexit is his WW2. That he’s fulfilling his destiny leading a grateful nation out of the EU and on to the glorious second empire, and that he will be judged by history, and lionised, as this great leader

    Now if only Theresa would step aside and let me fulfil my/our great date with destiny…..

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Really good interview with Dominic Grieve in today’s  guardian. About the most sensible assessment of the folly of Brexit as I’ve heard articulated by any politician. He’s definitely got the measure of Johnson and the rest of the headbangers in his own party

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/may/11/dominic-grieve-on-boris-johnson-and-brexit-he-should-resign-yes

    Premier Icon dissonance
    Subscriber

    Johnson has to be the most shameless politician since Blair

    I am not a fan of Blair but I think you are doing him a serious disservice here. Whilst his relationship to the truth does seem somewhat relaxed its not in the same league as Johnson. Blair mostly lied by omission, eg 45mins if you take the most optimistic/pessimistic view of Saddam’s capabilties and also hint its strategic and not tactical, whereas Johnson simply makes rubbish up.

    In, sort of, I think agreement with Binners I think he is one of those really good salesmen types who can convince himself that whatever he is saying at the time/suits his personal aims is the truth. So having thrown in his lot with Brexit he needs to really, really believe in it.

    mattyfez
    Member

    Shock horror…

    “Theresa May faces deadlock over Brexit customs rules, after senior politicians attack both proposed options”

    So everyone’s opposed to the rediculous unworkable plan(s) ….not just the pesky euoreans.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-customs-rules-eu-partnership-uk-theresa-may-ireland-a8349341.html

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