Viewing 40 posts - 44,801 through 44,840 (of 77,140 total)
  • EU Referendum – are you in or out?
  • kelvin
    Full Member

    Sadly thr Indy appears to be the only paper running that Tusk story. To good to be true I suppose

    Nonsense. I knew about it from multiple other news sources… and have only just now read the Indy link to see what you were on about. It’s not even an opinion piece… just the actual words straight from Tusk’s mouth.

    kilo
    Full Member

    jambalaya

    Sadly the Indy appears to be the only paper running that Tusk story. To good to be true I suppose

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-43333274

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/ireland-comes-first-in-brexit-talks-tusk-1.3419979

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/03/08/donald-tusk-warns-ireland-must-come-first-brexit-talks/

    https://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/tusk-threat-to-freeze-brexit-talks-until-irish-get-deal-1-4702854

    You are great comedy value 😉 Have this one to mull over r UK / US trade and the toryboy view of the future

    “May has strongly signalled a desire to negotiate a bilateral trade agreement with the US after Brexit, but critics said Trump’s “America first” rhetoric underlined the potential danger of being too reliant on a transatlantic relationship.

    Senior government figures told the Guardian that plans to keep Britain closely tied to European standards after Brexit, which were outlined by the prime minister on Friday, had also cut the chances of a major trade deal with the US.

    One cabinet minister said sticking to EU regulations in a number of areas, particularly around industrial goods, would constrain the breadth of any future UK-US trade links”

    mattyfez
    Full Member

    Sadly thr Indy appears to be the only paper running that Tusk story. To good to be true I suppose

    The express ran the story too, THE EXPRESS! Lol!

    Although they added thier trademark puerile spin to it.

    “Donald Tusk issues veiled THREAT to Britain as he cosies up to Ireland for Brexit leverage”

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/929028/brexit-news-ireland-irish-border-donald-tusk-leo-varadkar-northern-ireland

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    thecaptain
    Free Member

    Yeah but apart from the indy, no-one else is running that Tusk story apart from the BBC, Irish Times, Telegraph and Scotsman.

    Apart from the Express.

    Anyway, it’s not on Brexit Central.

    Except actually it is.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    Anyone follow Corbyn’s speech today in Scotland? He is so much more behind Brexit than the PM… she feels she has to do it… he genuinely sees benefits (even though they are based on misunderstandings over how the EU works, and what trade deals we will require to replace it will entail, in my opinion).

    zippykona
    Full Member

    Are you a Corbyn fan now ?

    I’d vote for Farage if he promised to keep us in.

    oldmanmtb
    Free Member

    I am a fan of anything that stops or slows down the madness…. go JC!

    zippykona
    Full Member

    I guess the choice will be Leaving or Leaving and giving the tories a kicking .

    I **** hate tories.

    binners
    Full Member

    Corbyn wanted to Trigger article 50 the morning after the referendum. He’s spent his entire career railing against the EU as a capitalist conspiracy, despite all evidence to the contrary. He still thinks it stands in the way of the establishment of his socialist utopia.

    As usual he’s out of step with his own MP’s, most of the labour membership, the majority of  labour voters and even most of his disciples in Momentum

    To the Brexiteers he’s just a useful idiot ensuring the Labour Party will not act as an opposition to this lunacy

    Apart from Yvette Cooper who is pretty much the only labour MP prepared to constantly challenge this madness

    thecaptain
    Free Member

    I think the A50 thing was probably Corbyn playing politics and bouncing the Tories into the catastrophe now unfolding rather than that he actually felt a compulsion to leave asap. I could be wrong of course.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    I suspect you are.

    JC will not stop Brexit. He doesn’t understand it, but he does support it. Don’t believe the “all things to all voters” spin.

    mattyfez
    Full Member

    Yeh JC’s position is very ambiguous, we know he’s anti Europe, so for him to be apparently offering a much softer brexit than the nasty party can only be for one reason, to get into power.

    Another party before people agenda, just like the tories but for different philosophical reasons.

    Maybe we can hope for a lib lab coalition next GE.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    so for him to be apparently offering a much softer brexit than the nasty party can only be for one reason, to get into power.

    No, it’s cos of the above mentioned clash between him own views and the party membership.

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    weird isnt it May is delivering something she opposed and  Corbyn is pretending to oppose something he supports

    Democracy is such a wonderful thing.

    Binners anti corbyn post was actually spot on for once.

    chestrockwell
    Full Member

    Nothing weird about it at all as they are elected to carry out the parties wishes, not their own.

    binners
    Full Member

    But Corbyn isn’t doing this, is he? That’s the whole point. All but a handful of his MP’s were/are pro-remain. Party members and voters are pro-remain by a huge majority. Even his own lemming-like Momentum followers are overwhelmingly remainers

    But Corbyn is doing what he’s always done….. ignoring all of them and just representing his own personal anti-EU opinion

    grum
    Free Member

    Brexit supporters – stil definitely not racist.

    https://news.sky.com/video/student-films-racist-abuse-at-uni-11280917

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    Nothing weird about it at all

    Please feel free to list the times this happens and give other examples – it will help if it such a major issue. There must be loads seeing as this is not weird and I guess it happens all the time.

    they are elected to carry out the parties wishes, not their own.

    I think the PM is elected to carry out the people wishes so she at least has a get out but I still dont recall a leader doing something this large they opposed

    Binners [ back to usual I note] notes Corbyn is not representing his party he is pretending to.

    mattyfez
    Full Member

    My understanding is that MPs, including the PM, are supposed to do the best thing for the country, or thier constituents, that doesn’t nessesarily align completely with the will of the people, but of course popular opinion should be carefully considered.

    Take a different subject, I’m sure the will of the people would be to bring in a 4 day working week and lower retirement age to 40, but it would destroy the economy.

    It’s an MPs job to know what’s best and balance the will of the people against the practicalities.

    Unfortunately most MPs don’t think that way, they have thier own agendas.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    One Conservative MP finally manages to get the majority of the country to unite behind something…

    …his grandad would have been proud.

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    (Edit: as @kelvin noted yesterday) Comrade Corbyn has been on message in Scotland these past few days pointing out how EU rules on state aid prevent him running the economic policy he wishes including nationalisations (hence May should not sign up to them *) and how freedom of movement allows immigrant workers to be used by “unscrupulous” bosses to undermine workers wages. Now Dugdale is comparing Corbyn to Farage 🙂

    * Corbyn neglects to mention that Labour’s Customs Union plan would absolutely require the UK to sign up to these rules as the EU regards them as part of the “level playing field” requirement


    @matty
    80% of the vote at the snap 2017 General Election was for parties supporting Brexit & ending freedom of movement (explicitly in manifestos) and leaving customs unions (statements by ministers/shadow minsters). It was only the Lib Dems, Green’s and SNP that where suggesting otherwise. Pretty clear democratic mandate to just get the F on with it.

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    @Kelvin well I hope you are right. Bring on WTO as of April 2019 (inc total withdrawl from Common Fisheries Policy) and zero payment to the EU too. Win win.

    cchris2lou
    Full Member

    still does not solve Ireland and other borders ?

    Maybe you need to have another look at wto rules .

    zippykona
    Full Member

    In the last election people were either voting against Corbyn or aagainst May.

    A lib vote these days is pretty much wasted unfortunately. I can’t bring myself to vote labour but the chance to give that **** grayling a scare is tempting.

    ninfan
    Free Member

    still does not solve Ireland and other borders ?

    EU have already solved their own problem with that, with an extensive report on how to avoid a hard border that completely undermines all their own posturing:

    http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/STUD/2017/596828/IPOL_STU(2017)596828_EN.pdf

    sobriety
    Free Member

    I guess you missed it, but that’s old news, Jamba posted it while you were away.

    It’s unicorns.

    kimbers
    Full Member

    Yep been posted several times, but doesn’t address the issue of no infrastructure at the border and also somewhat ironically ( tho brexies & irony seem immiscible) amounts to a load more red tape than the present situation & ultimately is dependent on some sort of customs/market/trade deal that will have to reconcile with many of Mays bonkers red lines.

    It’s good that Brexies are starting to pay attention to the EU, but maybe next time actually read what you are linking to?

    jimjam
    Free Member

    ninfan

    still does not solve Ireland and other borders ?

    EU have already solved their own problem with that, with an extensive report on how to avoid a hard border that completely undermines all their own posturing:

    http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/STUD/2017/596828/IPOL_STU(2017)596828_EN.pdf

    I haven’t read it all but I did skim it and search for a few keywords such as IRA, Republican, Violence, Vandalism, Dissident, Murder, Smuggle, Kill, Intimidation etc but there seems to be no mention or consideration given. It’s as if someone thought they’d just look at borders anywhere else in the world that wasn’t a warzone and thought, yeah, that’ll do rightly.

    ninfan
    Free Member

    It’s unicorns.

    What, the EU are selling people unicorns now? Who knew? I thought that it was just the evil, philandering Brexies who were doing that…

    doesn’t address the issue of no infrastructure at the border

    So, you’re telling me that despite all the hardline posturing, the EU have, behind the scenes, been planning to sell the Irish down the river with a negotiated compromise after all ? Who could have guessed?

    kimbers
    Full Member

    You really haven’t read it have you?

    perditus
    Free Member
    oldnpastit
    Full Member

    I had a quick skim through that report; to me it also looked like a hard border, but with expedited paperwork.

    For example:

    ePassports: The use of ePassports with biometric capabilities can facilitate the
    faster movement of persons across borders. The international standard for
    ePassports is governed by the International Civil Aviation Organization 53 .

    This is a lame attempt to dress up the fact that it’s just not possible to avoid a hard border.

    chestrockwell
    Full Member

    But Corbyn isn’t doing this, is he? That’s the whole point. All but a handful of his MP’s were/are pro-remain. Party members and voters are pro-remain by a huge majority. Even his own lemming-like Momentum followers are overwhelmingly remainers

    But Corbyn is doing what he’s always done….. ignoring all of them and just representing his own personal anti-EU opinion

    Really? You really think he can ignore all the above and still expect to be PM? Where are his votes coming from? Could it be that a decent amount of working class potential labour voters are leavers so the path to power requires subduing both sides?

    I’m remain and a left wing leaning labour voter so no reason to cause a fuss but these threads have a habit of disappearing up the same posters arses just so they can disagree with others. Makes for a tedious thread and tedious forum. At least THM seems to have stopped fouling the forum.

    zokes
    Free Member

    The border issue is proper unicorns. It’s patently impossible for any border to be less restrictive from a red tape and infrastructure perspective than the current one. Yet, if we leave the EU then there will have to be one, in what is, for anyone with memory and half a brain, a rather unpleasant paramilitary war zone. Good luck with that. At least I won’t be in Manchester when they blow it up this time, and I’ve left school so bomb threats there won’t affect me.

    Dramatic? Yes. But this is what the IRA and others did, and those dismissing this out of hand really need to read some history books.

    Then we have the bollocks about public ownership, which is simply that: bollocks. It’s been done to death on this thread, so unless Jamby and Ninfan would like to bring new evidence to the table then please stop repeating it.

    And yes, Corbyn is treading a fine line. But it’s one he has no choice in. Everyone underestimated the numbers labour haemorrhaged to the kippers, so treading an ambiguous line is from some perspectives sound politically at present, even if it’s very frustrating for left leaning europhiles such as myself. He’s not the PM, he has that freedom. To win an election he needs over 50% of the population (give or take) to vote for him. 52% of them voted to leave. Sure, probably fewer would now, but nonetheless a large proportion still would, and he needs a not insignificant number of those to win an election. In those terms, it would be one hell of a risk to run on a overtly europhile remain policy, and if he did don’t win, we’d still be leaving, and the Tories would be in power.

    yourguitarhero
    Free Member

    You only need about 30% of the population to vote your party into government

    zokes
    Free Member

    Well that’s patently false: both Labour and the Tories got over 30% at the last election and neither won outright.

    mrmo
    Free Member

    It is a bit more than 30, and I mean a bit more. The disfunction nature of FPTP means you never need 50%+1 to win, you just need to have your voters in the right consituencies.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_elections_overview

    kimbers
    Full Member

    Good link perditus.

    Sadly a good chunk of leave voters & every brexiter politician appears to have their head in the sand!

    zokes
    Free Member

    Yup, good link, perditus. At what point can queenie go “stop that, it’s silly!”?

    welshfarmer
    Full Member

    This tweet from the Luxembourg PM sums it up quite nicely

    Lux PM Bettel: “They were in with a load of opt-outs. Now they are out, and want a load of opt-ins.”

Viewing 40 posts - 44,801 through 44,840 (of 77,140 total)

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